Ok, so if you wanna get like that, you say spiders are necessary and everything, well when they are being developed they are just like a baby, so if we kill every spider baby before it has a chance then they will never get the chance to contribute to what is out there in the world.....Just like a baby...you ahve to give it time before it can contribute to the world.....and if we keep aborting all these children, then what will come of us if every gets abortions, or lets say, people eventually feel like they don't want to have children....if everyone thought it was ok to do, or if that is what everyone wanted to do then, we might not have been born.
Think about it this way if you want....lets say or mom was pregnant with you, and she decided that since you weren't fully developed, or she thought that you would be to much of a hassle and she decided to terminate you. How would you feel? You didn't even get the chance to see what you could have accomplished, or offered to the world. Sometimes when we look at a situatuion we think that would be the best thing to do, until you actually think how it affects everyone else around you. Its not fair in my opinion that if your not smart enough to be careful not to get pregnant that your child that you have created should have to pay for it. You "made" the commitment to do the action, then you should have the courage and same commitment to adapt to the consequences....
Its almost like a business. Once you are in and have all the finances and everything is put into plan, you can't back out that easily, you made the commitment to make the business and deal with all the consequences that go along with it, what ever it maybe. Same thing with a baby...you made the commitment to sleep with a person(depending on the circumstances)which also means you know what consequences that can happen, and you should be responsible for what ever happens.

Why would I abort a spider? ??? I don't see the point your failing to make.

1. If people don't want a child, fine.

2. Can't help feeling like you just ignore any point that's made, plug your ears and go "nananananana i cant hear you."

she decided to terminate you. How would you feel?

I WOULDN'T FEEL ANYTHING. I'D HAVE NO CONSCIOUSNESS NOR A DEVELOPED NERVOUS SYSTEM

3.

until you actually think how it affects everyone else around you.

No, someone making a choice about their own child -- THEIRS. NOT YOURS. NO ONE ELSES. THEIRS. is not going to affected you in anyway at all.

4.

Its not fair in my opinion that if your not smart enough to be careful not to get pregnant that your child that you have created should have to pay for it.

Again, I all ready made my points about the alternatives when you have parents who aren't "smart" enough to use contraception. But then, you're not even able to make a sentence coherent, so...

5.

You "made" the commitment to do the action

.... I'm not even going to explain to you what you've just said.

6.

Its almost like a business

Babies -- not living things, businesses. Make yours profitable!

7. You have no idea how business management works at all, do you. You CAN back out at any time. Go do some fucking research on the stock market.

8. Learn to make paragraphs.

9. You don't show the ability to be able to think for yourself, let alone make proper sentences or valid arguments. Lemme guess, someone in your family shoves this crap down your throat, right. Hmm, maybe a minister? A preacher of some kind? Muslim? Christian? God-forbid -- Catholic?

10. none of your points have anything to do with the real world, or how it actually works. You've clearly never so much as lived by yourself. When you're old enough to start paying bills, or even when you just actually start living by yourself, then you can try and make adult opinions. Until then, just shut up.

Kashim wrote:Who ever said you have be religious to be an extremist? I think Sheoul proves that point. From my point of view, he's an extremist atheist, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say, no one likes an extremist.

As for me, I believe abortion is not right.

P.s. I'm not Atheist, I'm anti-theist. Also, I'll remind everyone that Kashim is religious. Now, stop pulling things out of your ass.

P.s. I'm not Atheist, I'm anti-theist. Also, I'll remind everyone that Kashim is religious. Now, stop pulling things out of your ass.

Guilty as charged. I hope I didn't do anything wrong. True, I'm religious, a Muslim actually, but no extremist, and at least I don't argue/troll 15 year olds.

I believe abortion is the woman's choice. After doing legal studies, psychology and health at school, i've been through this topic many times and know both arguments quite well. I haven't read all the posts so someone might be saying the same thing as me, but the ones i read missed out a very important part of the equation. Backyard Abortions.
If abortion is illegal, but a woman really, truly believes she could have one, she can hire someone to do it for her. These procedures can involve needles, knives and other things i don't like to think about. I honestly can't see why anyone would do this knowing the risks, but it happens. When abortion is legal, deaths resulting from this (not just the baby's) are prevented to some degree.
Whether you believe it's right or wrong, you do have to consider this factor very carefully

Btw, i almost went into shock when i saw the phrase, 'if you're not smart enough to not get pregnant'. EVER HEARD OF RAPE!! YOU THINK IT'S JUST THE DUMBASSES WHO GET RAPED!!! Omg, not every rapist uses a condom

And when will the day come that nobody wants to have children. I, for one, cannot wait to have children!! And if i'm the only one then so be it. I'll repopulate the world by myself and i'm going to stop rambling now before i say something bad and get into trouble :S

Of course, no one ever takes into account the babies' life. Not the fact that it would be living, but it's quality of life.. But then, haha these moral people care! They just care that it's alive. Lovely bastards.

Thanks Sheoul. Let's put in a hypotheatical (crap, i cant speel xD) situation. One that i've used in many essays and papers.
Let's say a woman was raped. Unfortunately it happens alot. And as a result of this, she became pregnant. Some people say it's unfair on the baby to take its life away, but isn't it rather unfair on the woman to make her give birth to, not just an unwanted child, but the result of something horrible that she'll have to live with for the rest of her life. The baby is a reminder of that and can make the woman hate the child. Put it up for adoption? Can you really expect a woman to let it grow inside her for 9 months? She's spawning the baby of her rapist!! And some women just can't give away their child, no matter how it came to be. Sometimes, it's not about the baby at all. How about we look at how some childbirths affect the mother.

I'm going to point out that it has nothing to do with commitment or being smart enough. There are a lot of cases of rape, drunken sex (which, by the way, counts as rape), incest (another form of rape), sabotage (i.e.: the man wanting a child, poking a hole in the condom or flat out not using one), birth control failure, et cetera. What needs to be done is that abortions should be illegal after the second trimester (they are), except in the case of medical emergency.

The poor nun that saved a dying mother's life by aborting her child was excommunicated from the church because they didn't feel she was morally justified for terminating the pregnancy (i.e.: it would have been better for her to let the mother suffer and die and the child as well?).

Pro-life people are silly and crack me up sometimes.

UnderInk, great points. You kinda brought up another subject - not the same but close i guess. it's been bugging me for a while. Drunken sex = rape. i agree, but only if one party was drunk. It really shits me that both can be drunk, but the woman was 'raped'. at the time they both wanted it, but after the woman can say 'I DIDN'T REALLY WANT IT! HE RAPED ME!' And the man is a rapist. But he can't turn around and say that he didn't want it either, and they both acted stupid. Does anyone else agree that this isn't fair. I'm female so i'm not being biased. I know this is a different topic but i needed to get it off my chest. thankyou :)

The problem though is that if both parties are drunk, you have to show that the man was intoxicated enough to be forcefully out of control, but not drunk enough to pass out. With a woman, you only have to prove she was intoxicated at all. It's just easier for the legal system. But I do agree with you.

Just to point out something, Rape is defined as non-consensual sexual intercourse between two parties, ergo one forces the other. I'm no supporter of incest or drunk sex [hell, I rarely drink, myself] but if both parties agree then while it's sketchy, and illegal if it's incest, it's not classed as rape.

Also, I have a point I don't think anyone's made yet... What about the damn baby?! Just imagine the kind of mind-job it would be being told that you are the result of rape. And rape tends to really mess women up, and can ruin entire families and relationships, now if that happened [which there are high chances of, so I'm just speaking in general here] and then you were told that you are the constant reminder of that which both emotionally crippled your mother, and ruined your family. I'm not exactly a mentally weak person, but I can easily tell that that would totally ruin me for months, maybe years, if not for the rest of my life.

Let's remove rape for the picture and look at what can happen to the child when taking the alternative avenues, such as adoption. I'll use my grandmother as the primary example here. She's not a worst-case scenario. Now, when she was young, she went into the adoption system, I'm not sure on all the details so bare with me, now everyone in the family knows that it really made a big and negative impact on her, emotionally and mentally. Now, even into her old age she isn't over the things she experienced in that system, many of these experiences are still lived today, btw the system hasn't changed too much, and I frankly would rather deal with the alleged murder of a child rather than subject it to mental, emotional or physical trauma. But that's just me being an evil and corrupt baby killer!

EDIT:

wiltingrose wrote:UnderInk, great points. You kinda brought up another subject - not the same but close i guess. it's been bugging me for a while. Drunken sex = rape. i agree, but only if one party was drunk. It really shits me that both can be drunk, but the woman was 'raped'. at the time they both wanted it, but after the woman can say 'I DIDN'T REALLY WANT IT! HE RAPED ME!' And the man is a rapist. But he can't turn around and say that he didn't want it either, and they both acted stupid. Does anyone else agree that this isn't fair. I'm female so i'm not being biased. I know this is a different topic but i needed to get it off my chest. thankyou :)

A point on this, if I may. My mother knew a guy, a nice, well-rounded gentleman. He met a young woman at a bar, they clicked, got drunk, and did the underpants dance. Now, following this, a couple of things happened and it turned out that the girl had lied about her age, and she was a year away from the legal age of consent. The man in this case, had no idea about this until being told following their little... Get-together. Now, he went to jail for that due to charges of "statutory rape." Doesn't end there, by the way, when he got out, everyone had heard the girl's version of the story, placing him out to be some sort of psycho, monster paedophile rapist sex maniac, and most [including family and friends] believed it because she's the girl, and he's the one coming out of jail. His life was literally ruined by that, leading to his eventual suicide.

The point I'm making is that it's WAY too easy for a woman to say "He raped me!!!" rather than fess to up mistakes and be a grown up. More than that, the legal system barely even questions them on it. A CSI [or law and order, cant remember, it was a Cop-show] episode comes to mind. It was about this male stripper that was raped by a group of women. No one believed him ;[ But then he won the case anyway because he was proven to be telling the damn truth.

The moral of the story is uhm... Well, figure it out yourself

If one party is drunk, and the other is not intoxicated to that point, and both engage in sex--- if the woman wakes up the next day and says 'He had sex with me while I was drunk and I'm not comfortable with that, I want him arrested'. . . guess what?

It IS classified as rape. When someone drinks, they are considered (like a minor, or someone who is mentally challenged) not able to consent to sex. The only situation this does not apply in is a married couple that has sex on a regular basis (although she can still make a rape case out of it if she really wants to; he's just got a lot more defense on his side).

Incest is illegal and is always considered rape when reported. They can't control what ISN'T reported, however, so in cases where it isn't---and the authority doesn't know about it---yes, it can be considered 'consensual' if they're both over 18. But if either made a move to have the other arrested for rape based on the idea it was incest, either could have that done as well.

To the above poster: the reason he was charged for statutory rape is that there is no excuse. Even if neither of them had gotten drunk. This is an instance where you ask for an ID if you even have a shadow of a doubt. I know it sucks, but it is still classified as rape because the girl under 18 could not consent---period---no matter what she told the guy. This goes the same for internet meetings. If someone tells you they're over 18, and you go and meet and have sex with them, and it turns out they aren't 18---you just raped somebody as well.

I know it sounds awkward, 'Can I see your ID before we leave?'---but better safe than sorry. And in the case of a fake ID? Well, you may get leniency for that and they would definitely go to jail for using a counterfeit ID.

If he has reasonable belief she was 18 - ie/ she looked alot older than her age, and this does happen - he can use it as a defense. especially if they met in an over 18's venue

I agree with that. They will be lenient if she's like. . . say. . . using a fake ID to get drinks at an over 18 venue all night, so of course he would assume she was over 18. In which case they'd probably have him testify against her to charge for using the fake ID and getting into an adult venue while a minor, and cut his sentence to zilch in return.