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A man and an angel fighting.


I can't tell. Geometric designs of some sort.


The ancient Egyptians were sun-worshipers. They believed their monarchs to be the decendents of Horus the solar deity. The man and woman are wearing a Pharonic crown (which itself is a combonation of the crowns of the former kingdoms of Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt, united by the conquests of a pharoah whose name has been lost to history.) The babies have freaky heads because that's how Egyptian art almost always depicts babies. Human-drawing in ancient Egypt was crude, and that's how the artists got the point across that these are babies--by giving them exaggeratedly large heads.


On the left, a woman is being kidnapped. The tall guy is presumably the leader of the kidnappers. On the right, a large animal seems to be bowing to a man in a chair.


This doesn't match up with typical Egyptian artwork of the time. It's way too rough/simplistic. I'd say it was never finished, and I'd say it's a bird.

Appears to be a fish deity. With wings. There have been stranger.


I'd like to see the original engraving, not a "reconstructed pencil drawing."


They look like angels to me.


I don't know much about Sumerian iconology. I would say that it's a bird man picture being judged by some authority. :shrug:


It's Jesus ascending into Heavan. And?


The star of Bethlehem, perhaps?


A man fighting a monster. Standard fare.


It's a squid! What the Hell does this have to do with anything?


The mural is so faded, and the picture of the mural so low-resolution, that it's hard to say what this is. The shape of the head puts me in mind of an ibis, which in turn puts me in mind of the ibis-headed Egyptian deities Thoth and Isis. In any case, the fact that this figure is BELOW everyone else puts its status as a space alien in doubt.


This was a common practice in precolumbian times among certain American tribes. Bind up a baby's skull and flatten it out. Just like modern folks put braces on childrens' teeth to straighten them out.


Medival mural depicting dark clouds in the background.


The Christian God lives in Heaven, correct? So we see His power coming down from heaven and blessing Jesus.


The signiture says "1951" on it. I think it's safe to say that neither Atlantis nor Lemuria was not around in 1951. If these continents every existed anyway, what's that got to do with space aliens? Plato didn't describe any space aliens in Atlantis, at least.


It si a wierd thing amongst many other wierd things. I don't know what it is, and neither do you.


Those look like hats.


Again; that's ancient Egyptian artists depicted babies. Babies have big heads. Simplistic Egyptian painting indicated that fact like this. And why do they have round bellies? Because they are fat royalty!


May I ask where you got this?

[b]Now in Val Camonica, Italy there are large shapes on the ground depicting beings in suits which resemble astronauts dating to about 10,000 BC which can only be seen from sky view... In the Himalayan mountains in Tibet there are gold monoatomic discs which seem to levitate by themselves, dating to 500 BC... and in Iraq there are ancient Babylonian clay pot batteries which still contain the electrodes from around 2,500 BC...

I've never heard of any of that. What's your scource?


Anyway, my opinion on space aliens:
The galaxy is so huge, that it seems absurd to assume that Earth is the only planet with some sort life on it. Consider this, however.

+The odds of a planet within a habitable range from it's sun and having a stable orbit.
+That planet having a single, large moon (this is neccesary for the maintaining of a stable climate. The Moon's gravity is largely what's responsable for the planet not wabbling chaotically like all the others in our solar system.)
+That planet developing monocellular life.

Okay, that doesn't seem to hard. It happened here right? But this is where it gets tricky.

+That planet developing animal life.

This one is infintisimal. Life on Earth could very possibly remained in a pre-animal state had it not been for some very coincidental evolution.

It's also important not to think of evolution as a straight line. "Animal" is not the next natural step up from "plant." It's is simply a different branch of evolution with its own advantages and disadvantages. And ask yourself: are animals really more advanced? We animals cannot produce our own energy; we need to take it from plants via ingestion. Likewise, we reproduce slower. Most animal species don't live as long. We spread over smaller areas. When you step outside in the morning, what do you see more off: animals or plants? It was by a very unusual set of circumstances that any life on earth (and, mind you most life did not) evolved into animals.

Okay, moving on. Next, we have to assume:

+That said animal life develops intelligence.

Again, evolution is not a straight line. It's not "we have animals, and now those animals evolve to become intelligent." Only a few species on Earth have evolved into intelligent organisms. And it's not neccesarilly something that makes them superior to other creatures. Can you honesly say that humans are at a greater evolutionary advantage over roaches? Roaches are less intelligent, but they seem to be far more succesfull as a species; better at surviving, better at reproducing, better at geting food(when was the last time you heard of a roach famine?).

Again, it was a very specific set of circumstances that led to the evolution of intelligent animal life on Earth. Now we must assume that:

+Said intelligent creatures develope technology.

Let's look at how many creatures on earth use tools. Apes, monkeys, humans, otters. How many of those have taken those tools and developed them FURTHER into complex machines? One.

Allright, now, let's assume, after beating all of those near-impossible odds that these intelligent tool-using animals who can make machines use those machines to explore outer space. This is not a given. Many humans today are opposed to the rescources our governments are using to explore space, arguing that all that effort needs to be put towards solving matters at home on Earth. Those of us who are interested in charting the heavens do so out of little more than a romantic thirst for knowledge. What if the aliens don't have that thirst for knowledge? What if they are psychollogically more akin to sheep than monkeys, and are not interested in exploration?

And then, what if they don't have the rescources for exploration? What if their planet doesn't have much metal? What if they have already consumed many of the rescources neccessary to build spacecraft before they try to fly?

Now, lets say all this comes to pass. The aliens evolve into a technologically-advanced civilization and begin to explore outer space.

All this seems possible. After all, we're getting close to it, it seems. So why can't someone else? Here's the problem, though:

+They visit Earth.

Here's a picture of the Milky Way: http://www2.lns.mit.edu/~LQS/Milky_Way_galaxy_sun05.jpg

Look at where our solar system is. Can you even see it? No. We're not even part of a very large star cluster. What would attract the aliens' attention to us? Out of all the trillions of lightyears that make up our galaxy, comeing to earth from a random location in it would be like coming to the pull tab of the can of soda I'm drinking from anywhere in the solar system. And once they're here:

+They visit. They make themselves seen. They leave.

You're telling me that these miraculous creatures spend unimaginably vast rescources to explore the entire galaxy, find Earth, and then DON'T DO ANYTHING? No colonies? No rescource harvesting? Nothing? Where is the profit in this journey? Why come here? They don't want food? Fuel? Territorry? Water? Minerals? Slaves? Outposts? Nothing? Then why bother?

The likelyhood of all this is about 1 out of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

And no, that's not an exact estimate.

In any case, even if something as incredable as this were to happen, why are the aliens being so secretive? Are they afraid of us? They're obviously far more powerful than us, so that's unlikely. Do they not want to hurt us? How could us merely knowing about them hurt us? And why haven't they caught on to the fact that we're catching on yet?

Sorry, but none of this makes sense to me.

TFairy wrote:I highly doubt that what I just said is the most stupid thing you ever heard.
Maybe aliens are like us, maybe they aren't. I think they are like us, not the same, but similar. They mightn't be as evolved as us either.

Why would people with no genetic connection with us whatsoever look anything like us?

Okay, I can see your point in all of this, and I agree with what you're saying... most of it... But you seem to have stopped with evolution, never exploring the "how" of it in the first place... We are life, after all... and in order to evolve, we have to come from something else that is alive... I know, apes, that is accepted and basically proven to be correct at this point... But what about before all that? Before apes, before mammels, before birds and reptiles, and fish, and plants, and all these things? I am not suggesting anything here, but another possibility... Have you considered perhaps that our so-called "gods" and "angels" might in fact be "aliens" from outer space? I'm not saying that's true, or that it's not true, I'm only presenting the possibility... Also, what if they did build colonies? I'm not saying anything recent, like a super alien biodome or anything, but perhaps, ancient cities which existed long long ago, and have since been buried beneath the sands? Or perhaps that we "are" the reason they came here, or dare I ask, that we are the "evidence" which they left behind? What if there was, say, an ancient civilization or planet like Mars that was once full of life like Earth is now? And what if those "aliens", so to speak, were wiped out entirely by extinction? But perhaps ancient humans left behind evidence of their existence, much like the fabled Atlantis... or Lemuria, which was a supposed continent made up of reptillian sea-like beings, which were somewhat like the ancient Sumerian creatures depicted above, or like the fabled Chinese dragon which is held to be a myth? Did humans walk with dinosaurs? Did they have contact with visitors of another planet? Or was it all just simply, make believe? You don't know, and I don't know either...

Okay, I can see your point in all of this, and I agree with what you're saying... most of it... But you seem to have stopped with evolution, never exploring the "how" of it in the first place... We are life, after all... and in order to evolve, we have to come from something else that is alive... I know, apes, that is accepted and basically proven to be correct at this point... But what about before all that? Before apes, before mammels, before birds and reptiles, and fish, and plants, and all these things? I am not suggesting anything here, but another possibility... Have you considered perhaps that our so-called "gods" and "angels" might in fact be "aliens" from outer space? I'm not saying that's true, or that it's not true, I'm only presenting the possibility

I suppose that's possible. However, if that is the case, then they are not actual gods and angels, are they? Just extremely powerful animals. I do feel quite certain that God with a capital "G" is not actually a space alien--you cannot build the house you were born in.

Unless you're suggesting that God created these entities directly. In that case, however, why create us humans via such an indirect method as natural selection?

Anyway, that seems unlikely in itself. In human records, God is always described as acting through a third party--prophets and such or sometimes what you called in your other thread "avatars of Christ." Unless we're somehow more special than them, this would also apply to the aliens, would it not?

... Also, what if they did build colonies? I'm not saying anything recent, like a super alien biodome or anything, but perhaps, ancient cities which existed long long ago, and have since been buried beneath the sands? Or perhaps that we "are" the reason they came here, or dare I ask, that we are the "evidence" which they left behind?

I feel fairly certain that no alien civilization has colonized Earth for a rather simple reason: they left behind no ruins. A settlement as grand as such advanced beings would have made would have some trace of it behind today.

As for "interventionary evolution"--aliens interfereing in human evolution, I just don't see any reason to believe it. Paleantology has traced human evolution pretty thouroghly, and there is no sign that it was ever messed with by an outside force.

What if there was, say, an ancient civilization or planet like Mars that was once full of life like Earth is now? And what if those "aliens", so to speak, were wiped out entirely by extinction? But perhaps ancient humans left behind evidence of their existence, much like the fabled Atlantis... or Lemuria, which was a supposed continent made up of reptillian sea-like beings, which were somewhat like the ancient Sumerian creatures depicted above, or like the fabled Chinese dragon which is held to be a myth?

The aliens going extinct is one thing. But then where would Atlantis or Lemuria go? Just because the population of a country dissapears does not mean their land does as well. And again, please show me an ancient scource to suggest that the Atlantians--if they were not just a myth--were anything other than highly civilized Earthlings.

Did humans walk with dinosaurs?

Of course not, that's absurd. Soil data and carbon dating place the extinction of the dinosaurs many millions of years before the rise of humanity. And what does that have to do with aliens, anyway?

Dionysus wrote:Heheh... Gabriel, must you insult people in every one of my threads? If you don't like what people have to say, don't read it. Simple as that, don't just reply with "you're stupid" or "you're an idiot" or whatever other insults you have... I assure you, you're the only one who is living up to your words, at this point... Try opening your mind, and looking inward rather than outward... I have been very nice to you up until this point, but know this... I could have your posts removed from my threads at any time, if I so choose... which I do not, so please don't provoke me to anger, or I will cast my judgement on you... I am a very nice person, so please, be nice, and absorb the good energy that I have. But don't be a leech, because you will punish yourself with bad karma.

Lawlz. That was good for a nice laugh, I haven't heard anyone be quite so arrogant over so little power in a long time. Go ahead, get my posts removed, I don't care.

*opens and closes her mouth several times*

I have nothing to say. I thought of so many things I wanted to point out before I read Village Alchemist's post. Then one by one, you stole them all and added more I hadn't though of.

So. I guess I'll just add plus on opinion of agreement to VA's post.

I guess I could rag on GW, but what would that add, intellectually, to this discussion?

I guess I could add one thing. It seems that perhaps Dyonises wanted for this discussion to be more than just about aliens. It seems s/he wanted to hear thoughts on history and aliens and whether things were as they seemed.

I wonder though, why people find it so necessary to torture themselves on questions of 'what if'. You can say 'what if' anything, and the chances are you will never find out if it's an actuality. There are much more useful things to contemplate, like what's the best kind of ice cream. Yes, that's a good question indeed.

The Rogue Doll wrote:I wonder though, why people find it so necessary to torture themselves on questions of 'what if'. You can say 'what if' anything, and the chances are you will never find out if it's an actuality. There are much more useful things to contemplate, like what's the best kind of ice cream. Yes, that's a good question indeed.

It's not torture for me. I love doing this kind of stuff. I like to call it mindsturbation.

mindsturbation... lol

Gasps

You said everything I was gonna say, all together, but Lemuria sank, and after that the inhabitants fled to the ocean, and made Atlantis. If want to know more, read "Nothing in this book is true, but its exactly how things are". It'll tell you EVERYTHING. Aliens, atlantis, etc. Its a good book.

Mindsturbation ROFL

Statistics state that if one of nine planets in a solar system can sustain life than in a galaxy with more than a million stars each having planets of their own, it is nearly impossible for there not to be other life in the universe.

Now if they are sentient or not, I can't say. How advanced those lifeforms are, also nothing solid to point to.... But honestly, I believe that Earth has been visited by higher lifeforms in the past. I believe that space travel is possible outside of our galaxy.

I also believe that our world isn't ready to accept the very real fact that we are may not be alone in the universe. I believe that human's fear of the unknown and tendency toward violence would destroy society as we know it if suddenly there were extraterrestrials among us.

reiokami wrote:I also believe that our world isn't ready to accept the very real fact that we are may not be alone in the universe. I believe that human's fear of the unknown and tendency toward violence would destroy society as we know it if suddenly there were extraterrestrials among us.

Oh so very true. Our ignorance of unknown things is one of the things that limits us. We're afraid of what we might find out there. We're afraid of the fact that they might kill us or enslave us.

The Rogue Doll wrote:I wonder though, why people find it so necessary to torture themselves on questions of 'what if'. You can say 'what if' anything, and the chances are you will never find out if it's an actuality. There are much more useful things to contemplate, like what's the best kind of ice cream. Yes, that's a good question indeed.

It's all like the 'What if?' question