Why is it whenever I enter a roleplay there’s always some form of cliché? I know it's almost impossible to avoid, but when you do everyone and their brother (or husband/uncle twice removed) tries to mimic your character, and thus this character idea spreads like wildfire at times in the roleplay in some way, shape, or form. It ain't easy, changing the whole cliché spectrum, but its possible if your a grand roleplayer. I'm actually building a character who's in his nineties and is horribly obese, because of his addiction to watermelon and salad. No fast food just pure fruits and vegetables although he hates eating just plants. (Odd enough he accidentally resorted to cannibalism, while eating in his sleep. The victim was his cousin. Cause of death? Sleepwalking.)
Another character of mine that’s still in development is a male librarian with dyslexia, who can’t read cursive, (but yet can write it flawlessly despite his disorder),has sloppy hand writing, hates to read, but yet loves to write epics.
Are these character’s truly clichés? The answer is yes. There will always be some form of cliché when creating a character. Sometimes its their appearance, others its their personality, or the way they speak. I am a victim to this. Sorry to be so brief but I've gott'a get ready a tournament pretty soon at the church (Halo 3 baby!) So I leave you with this question:
What are your tips for avoiding cliches?
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Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible?
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Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Joshua Dawn on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:04 pm
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Xersist on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:36 pm
Let me see if I can help here, Well Cliche is very common in media today. Mostly we find it in bad taste, or as comic relief. Usually finding something corny or cheesy, is usually made by less that creative minds. But some times taking the classical route can be the best one.
Everyone loves a hero, the basic form of that is a white male, with a great bod, and a jetting jaw line. He has no flaws and is only a victim of his antagonist. His either has blond hair that seems to flow in the sun light, or shaven off to give him that gritty feel.
Now Cliche can also be seen if too much irony has been forced out. Your characters seem to be doing that. Adding humor to your character is not always the best choice. Yes they can be funny, but their life habits and personality don't have to be the cause of it. Usually it caused by an average Joe, that has had a normal life thus far, but now takes his life for a turn for the comedic worst.
Now by just merely taking irony for your character choice only shirks the depth of these characters, or at least the writing for them. Seeing as how the writer will now only pick things that ironic to him, rather than regular events that would seem to happen everyday. Its not that it a lack of the writers skill, but it as they would say moth to the flame, you can't help but do it.
The back history of the character can be ironic, and sometimes cliches, as long as it does not completely define the character. If that's all you can think of, then I would start to opening your horizons, and maybe stop putting in a ironic twist.
What I do is go for something simple, but then build on it. Depending on which arch-type, can truly motivate you to write.
If the person is trying to be funny, or a comic relief, use the back history for your character. Like what if that person had little or no contact with humans for a long period of time. He/She had to find some way of entertain oneself. So he starts making jokes. Well one day that person finds the courage to tell a joke a talent show or something. He gets on the show, and does a great job, he then thinks he can go places with his humor.
This is just and Idea, there is no clear set goal for making a character, but if you do not wish to take the cliche route, I would suggest not pulling out irony everything you have the chance. You can have it, but don't make that one thing pinnacle to that character. Using more than one event to shape his/her psyche
Everyone loves a hero, the basic form of that is a white male, with a great bod, and a jetting jaw line. He has no flaws and is only a victim of his antagonist. His either has blond hair that seems to flow in the sun light, or shaven off to give him that gritty feel.
Now Cliche can also be seen if too much irony has been forced out. Your characters seem to be doing that. Adding humor to your character is not always the best choice. Yes they can be funny, but their life habits and personality don't have to be the cause of it. Usually it caused by an average Joe, that has had a normal life thus far, but now takes his life for a turn for the comedic worst.
Now by just merely taking irony for your character choice only shirks the depth of these characters, or at least the writing for them. Seeing as how the writer will now only pick things that ironic to him, rather than regular events that would seem to happen everyday. Its not that it a lack of the writers skill, but it as they would say moth to the flame, you can't help but do it.
The back history of the character can be ironic, and sometimes cliches, as long as it does not completely define the character. If that's all you can think of, then I would start to opening your horizons, and maybe stop putting in a ironic twist.
What I do is go for something simple, but then build on it. Depending on which arch-type, can truly motivate you to write.
If the person is trying to be funny, or a comic relief, use the back history for your character. Like what if that person had little or no contact with humans for a long period of time. He/She had to find some way of entertain oneself. So he starts making jokes. Well one day that person finds the courage to tell a joke a talent show or something. He gets on the show, and does a great job, he then thinks he can go places with his humor.
This is just and Idea, there is no clear set goal for making a character, but if you do not wish to take the cliche route, I would suggest not pulling out irony everything you have the chance. You can have it, but don't make that one thing pinnacle to that character. Using more than one event to shape his/her psyche
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by BSX on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:38 pm
I avioded cliches by making my characters flawed in at leat one way or another. Satoshi is probably the best example since he's a drinker, (monk) killer, selfish, ego-centered? and somewhat of a coward despite him being a skilled samurai. His not the best person in the world given the characteristic I gave him, but I feel that he's more real than him being a honest, serious, kind, strong, finger-licking-good hot body with good looks samurai.
*Excuse me for a moment*
Amen, now back on topic: starter-guide-forum-roleplay-t7245.html
Anyway most people want their character to be a good represenation of themselves. Sin, being "fugly", a jerk, self/ego - centered are things people don't want other to find or know about them (Unless they find that "cool"). The problem with most people's characters is FLAWS. Yes imperfection makes us human and helps give us the ability to better ourselves. So why not do the same for our RP counter-parts? I would rather read a RP about a alcoholic trying to get sober for the 4th time and succeeding, than him/her going to AA and being sober on their 1st try. The first, in my opinion, will have more content and the greater can have a wider range of emotion. Since they have tried to get sober before they, hopefully, have a better understanding of how to control their drinking and activators that can cause them to drink. They could feel guilt for not trying harder or throwing their porgress out the window and get hammered. They could see themselves in a younger person and try to help them not make the same mistake(s) they did, and when/if they succeed in overcoming the addicition. Than this:
Jane/Jon was a drunk because their parents were mean to them, but one day they had enough and got sober and were happy for the rest of their life. THE END.
That's how most RP characters are done, what about their feelings, thoughts and actions? How does them being a alcoholic affect not only them, but those around the person?
*Excuse me for a moment*
Amen, now back on topic: starter-guide-forum-roleplay-t7245.html
Anyway most people want their character to be a good represenation of themselves. Sin, being "fugly", a jerk, self/ego - centered are things people don't want other to find or know about them (Unless they find that "cool"). The problem with most people's characters is FLAWS. Yes imperfection makes us human and helps give us the ability to better ourselves. So why not do the same for our RP counter-parts? I would rather read a RP about a alcoholic trying to get sober for the 4th time and succeeding, than him/her going to AA and being sober on their 1st try. The first, in my opinion, will have more content and the greater can have a wider range of emotion. Since they have tried to get sober before they, hopefully, have a better understanding of how to control their drinking and activators that can cause them to drink. They could feel guilt for not trying harder or throwing their porgress out the window and get hammered. They could see themselves in a younger person and try to help them not make the same mistake(s) they did, and when/if they succeed in overcoming the addicition. Than this:
Jane/Jon was a drunk because their parents were mean to them, but one day they had enough and got sober and were happy for the rest of their life. THE END.
That's how most RP characters are done, what about their feelings, thoughts and actions? How does them being a alcoholic affect not only them, but those around the person?
Last edited by BSX on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Joshua Dawn on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:48 pm
So if I'm getting this straight, it’s more about the development of the character through conflict rather than irony?
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by BSX on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:01 pm
To me, character growth and their experiences are an important part of a story (RP). Not saying that a character HAS to grow, it's just my preference, Of Mice and Man is a good example of how the main characters didn't change yet deliver a good (and sad) story.
Joshua, I think the problem lies in that people create Mary Sue characters with predictable storylines/backgrounds and stereotypical attitudes and look. Cliches can help when you're in a writer's block or use it as a saftey net. However some RPers rely on them for just about everything.
Joshua, I think the problem lies in that people create Mary Sue characters with predictable storylines/backgrounds and stereotypical attitudes and look. Cliches can help when you're in a writer's block or use it as a saftey net. However some RPers rely on them for just about everything.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Indomitus on Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:58 pm
DANG IT, it's late at night and i Can't assemble my thoughts well enough to make a real response but this is the kind of thing I REALLY should have a response for. In trying to make one I went off describing 3 of my characters and how their levels of imperfection and realisticness corresponded to their entertainment level when Rping them.
So in essence, umm I'm watching this thread and hopefully will be back later with the ability to clearly express my opinion without going into 8 paragraphs (i counted) of examples, explanations, and theories.
So in essence, umm I'm watching this thread and hopefully will be back later with the ability to clearly express my opinion without going into 8 paragraphs (i counted) of examples, explanations, and theories.
Some things are far worse then those that go bump in the night.
The things that don't.
The things that don't.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Kestrel on Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:52 pm
First off: everything has been done before. There is no way to come up with something 100% original.
That said, there is a difference between used and overused. Cliché is what we call overused, but it's being overused for a reason, either because people lack the will or creativity or because cliché characters work. And they do. But perhaps it's not so much the problem that you've seen the type of character before, but the problem is that you've seen the character executed in one specific way. Presentation is almost always superior to creativity, even if you have a 'cliché' character you can still make it interesting. How does the character develop, from what point of view does the reader see the character, etc. If you place the cliché character in a situation you don't often see them, how would they respond? What influence does it have on them? etc.
My tip for avoiding clichés is; don't. Make your character the way you want it to be and be creative with your situations and development.
That said, there is a difference between used and overused. Cliché is what we call overused, but it's being overused for a reason, either because people lack the will or creativity or because cliché characters work. And they do. But perhaps it's not so much the problem that you've seen the type of character before, but the problem is that you've seen the character executed in one specific way. Presentation is almost always superior to creativity, even if you have a 'cliché' character you can still make it interesting. How does the character develop, from what point of view does the reader see the character, etc. If you place the cliché character in a situation you don't often see them, how would they respond? What influence does it have on them? etc.
My tip for avoiding clichés is; don't. Make your character the way you want it to be and be creative with your situations and development.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Ponats on Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:28 am
Avoid playing characters you saw directly saw from a movie, anime, another game, etc. Just use them as templates, change things around. Then is it really cliche? 
80% Explorer, 80% Socializer, 33% Killer, 7% Achiever
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by qbsuperstar03 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:12 pm
Another way to go about it is to take one or more of the elements of a "cliche" character and change it. More interesting characters emerge when you give them strengths and weaknesses, things that they're good at doing and things that they either haven't practiced much or are inherently not good at. A good example of the latter might be a half-orc's inborn tendency to try to get everything through force rather than finesse, whether he's using words (Intimidate over Diplomacy) or a big freaking axe instead of a longsword and shield.
One way you might be able to take a Mary Sue and make her playable is to take her background and reverse it. Instead of picturing her as having been blessed with opportunities to develop her boundless natural talent, switch it around, and have her be persecuted or otherwise having a disadvantageous background, forcing her to rely on natural talent alone instead of the advanced stuff that takes years of training to master. This gives her a number of playable traits that you can build on later; she relies on using simple tricks creatively instead of complex techniques in a fight (or would probably rather be a sorceress instead of a mighty wizard), she might have her own opinions about love and romance after countless suitors, and so forth.
One way you might be able to take a Mary Sue and make her playable is to take her background and reverse it. Instead of picturing her as having been blessed with opportunities to develop her boundless natural talent, switch it around, and have her be persecuted or otherwise having a disadvantageous background, forcing her to rely on natural talent alone instead of the advanced stuff that takes years of training to master. This gives her a number of playable traits that you can build on later; she relies on using simple tricks creatively instead of complex techniques in a fight (or would probably rather be a sorceress instead of a mighty wizard), she might have her own opinions about love and romance after countless suitors, and so forth.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Zero-Genesis on Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:58 am
Kestrel I disagree but then agian agree. It is possible to make a unique char, but it depends on what rp your in and what time period your in, and the rps history.
1.Bio- Alot of the times cliched but make yours unlike any other. Dont put.
"My mother and Father dissapeared when I was little." NONONO
"I grew up living under the TralintGalacticFederation. My father till this day serves in the 3rd Unit Galactic Force protecting the earth from harm." But then agian it depends on the plot, and sometimes it is still cliched.
Weapons- Try making your own, or such.
Age-dont be 19 18 20 everydamn time!
Personality- Dont always be Naive and run out in the middle of the battle field. And this gets worse when more than 1 person in the rp is this way.
Powers: Dont even get me started.
1.Bio- Alot of the times cliched but make yours unlike any other. Dont put.
"My mother and Father dissapeared when I was little." NONONO
"I grew up living under the TralintGalacticFederation. My father till this day serves in the 3rd Unit Galactic Force protecting the earth from harm." But then agian it depends on the plot, and sometimes it is still cliched.
Weapons- Try making your own, or such.
Age-dont be 19 18 20 everydamn time!
Personality- Dont always be Naive and run out in the middle of the battle field. And this gets worse when more than 1 person in the rp is this way.
Powers: Dont even get me started.
Darkness is only the absence of Light.
TWILIGHT
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Kestrel on Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:36 am
Funny, I saw you reply to two of my posts in topics that have been silent for a pretty long time. Ayway, I'll refrain from quoting and explaining myself, so I'll just tell you to read the 'used vs. overused' part again and draw your own conclusions.
As for unique; It's best to believe unique ideas no longer exist in this world. Non-existent or just way too fucking hard to pull off. There is so much literature in the world, in many different languages, published works but also unpublished, like pretty much everything on this forum. Sure, there is a slim chance you may think of something nobody ever did before, but that's like one in a near endless number.
But what if you ATE your parents before you gained conciousness (the first years of your life)! Well, I guess this is a combination of 'parents missing' and 'amnesia', but just to give an example. Clichés work, they are used to develop the character in a certain kind of way. It's just poorly executed most of the time and thus it gained a negative image.
NO! Why not? Very simple; you need a practical weapon. Creating a new weapon that is practical requires a lot of thought. What technology is available in that world for example? In the European medieval times they couldn't make thin flexible blades for example, so a 'dancing sword' is a no-go. What weapons are in use? If you create a kind of sword in a futuristic setting ... Well let's put it like this; "OH NOES LOOK OUT IT'S A RAY GUN!" Pyew, pyew! "WHERE'S YOUR LIGHT SABER NOW BITCH?" You'll be killed before you even come close, it's not practical to draw a sword in a gunfight. I'm not even talking about balancing the weight, control and ability to carry the weapon around...
It requires a lot of thought and research to create a good, practical weapon and most people just can't pull it off. It's nice to have a seven-section staff, but how the hell are you going to use all seven sections properly? Better stick with the usable three-sectioned version, or a nunchuka.
To write a middle-aged person is very hard for someone who's in his or her 20's, or even still in puberty. And face it, the majority of the site is in that age category. Most people can't pull off a believable war veteran if they're in high school, no matter how empathic they may be.
Yeah... This is the part where you secretly PM the GM if he/she would please consider killing off mentioned naive character...
As for unique; It's best to believe unique ideas no longer exist in this world. Non-existent or just way too fucking hard to pull off. There is so much literature in the world, in many different languages, published works but also unpublished, like pretty much everything on this forum. Sure, there is a slim chance you may think of something nobody ever did before, but that's like one in a near endless number.
"My mother and Father dissapeared when I was little." NONONO
But what if you ATE your parents before you gained conciousness (the first years of your life)! Well, I guess this is a combination of 'parents missing' and 'amnesia', but just to give an example. Clichés work, they are used to develop the character in a certain kind of way. It's just poorly executed most of the time and thus it gained a negative image.
Weapons- Try making your own, or such.
NO! Why not? Very simple; you need a practical weapon. Creating a new weapon that is practical requires a lot of thought. What technology is available in that world for example? In the European medieval times they couldn't make thin flexible blades for example, so a 'dancing sword' is a no-go. What weapons are in use? If you create a kind of sword in a futuristic setting ... Well let's put it like this; "OH NOES LOOK OUT IT'S A RAY GUN!" Pyew, pyew! "WHERE'S YOUR LIGHT SABER NOW BITCH?" You'll be killed before you even come close, it's not practical to draw a sword in a gunfight. I'm not even talking about balancing the weight, control and ability to carry the weapon around...
It requires a lot of thought and research to create a good, practical weapon and most people just can't pull it off. It's nice to have a seven-section staff, but how the hell are you going to use all seven sections properly? Better stick with the usable three-sectioned version, or a nunchuka.
Age-dont be 19 18 20 everydamn time!
To write a middle-aged person is very hard for someone who's in his or her 20's, or even still in puberty. And face it, the majority of the site is in that age category. Most people can't pull off a believable war veteran if they're in high school, no matter how empathic they may be.
Personality- Dont always be Naive and run out in the middle of the battle field. And this gets worse when more than 1 person in the rp is this way.
Yeah... This is the part where you secretly PM the GM if he/she would please consider killing off mentioned naive character...
Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Zero-Genesis on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:01 am
Cliche is NOT bad, and as you said is poorly executed..... Most of the time. I wont bother to respond to what you just said, and I wont make up excuses why.
Cliche, if you cant make a well "executed" Cliche character then be Unique. Oh but what I will say is Kestrel you failed to properly read my post, or didnt get the point of the post. A character is easier to be made depending on the RP, PLOT, and HISTORY. A character isnt technically cliche unless its clearly overused. Thats my view on it. And YOU CAN make a charcter that is 100% ORGINAL same for an Rp.
Oh and Im sorry if Ive called you out on those 2 rps, but I see errors so im helping you realize them. I do that to everyone, so dont act like im going to every rp and ripping your head off becuase im not.
Cliche, if you cant make a well "executed" Cliche character then be Unique. Oh but what I will say is Kestrel you failed to properly read my post, or didnt get the point of the post. A character is easier to be made depending on the RP, PLOT, and HISTORY. A character isnt technically cliche unless its clearly overused. Thats my view on it. And YOU CAN make a charcter that is 100% ORGINAL same for an Rp.
Oh and Im sorry if Ive called you out on those 2 rps, but I see errors so im helping you realize them. I do that to everyone, so dont act like im going to every rp and ripping your head off becuase im not.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Kestrel on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:58 am
As for the post itself, I don't have anything new to reply. I've put it all in my previous two. Suggest you read them again if you still have questions.
You say you're trying to help me realise my errors? I think you're oughta read my posts better and/or chose your own words more carefully because I don't feel like you're helping me realise anything. What I see is you mentioning some of the more 'cliché points of view' on these specific subjects. I've seen those kinds of views plenty of times. Usually I'm the one to respond to them though, so that's a funny twist.
Also, I said it's 'funny'. 'Funny' doesn't mean 'you're ripping my head off', it means it's just a coincidence that I noticed.
Lastly; a friendly advice; don't act all offended, it makes you look insecure. That's a pretty bad image if you're trying to help people. They won't take your advice to heart, even if it turns out to be good. If I didn't know better I'd think you actually were tracking my posts just because of that last paragraph.
You say you're trying to help me realise my errors? I think you're oughta read my posts better and/or chose your own words more carefully because I don't feel like you're helping me realise anything. What I see is you mentioning some of the more 'cliché points of view' on these specific subjects. I've seen those kinds of views plenty of times. Usually I'm the one to respond to them though, so that's a funny twist.
Also, I said it's 'funny'. 'Funny' doesn't mean 'you're ripping my head off', it means it's just a coincidence that I noticed.
Lastly; a friendly advice; don't act all offended, it makes you look insecure. That's a pretty bad image if you're trying to help people. They won't take your advice to heart, even if it turns out to be good. If I didn't know better I'd think you actually were tracking my posts just because of that last paragraph.
Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Zero-Genesis on Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:10 pm
Ok, all im saying is I disagree with the fact that you said 100% of things are already done. Characters and Rps thrive on imagination which is endless....like numbers. And sorry if I seemed offended but im not, just trying to tell you that was invalid.
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Re: Avoiding Cliche Characters: Possible? ( )
by Alias on Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:26 pm
If you look deep enough, almost everything is cliche. Everything we think of is based on our thoughts of other experiences, so nothing is truly "original". I don't think that avoiding cliche's should be the goal, but rather avoiding boring, flat, undeveloped cliches. A Mary Sue and a Gary Stu each have their personality traits and heroic streaks and a basketful of small cliches building on each other. I know that I've used Mary Sue and Gary Stu characters in the past, but I have never been called on it, and I think I know why: When I make a character, I focus on their biography. Even if their childhood had some sort of cliche, there is explanation, there is basis, there is logic behind each cliche result. So despite being unoriginal, my characters make sense, work with the story, and don't stick out like a sore thumb.
So really, make sure you know and write how your characters got to be as they are. They might even be aware that they have a cliche personality. As long as they meld with their little world, their cliches aren't a problem.
I also haven't had the chance to read others' responses above, so if there really is a way to wholly avoid cliches, then definitely use that!
So really, make sure you know and write how your characters got to be as they are. They might even be aware that they have a cliche personality. As long as they meld with their little world, their cliches aren't a problem.
I also haven't had the chance to read others' responses above, so if there really is a way to wholly avoid cliches, then definitely use that!
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