A debate between religions,science, and any other theories. Try to prove which theory you think or believe to be correct. I will not start this debate instead I will allow the next person after to me to start this debate.

Oh, dear, here comes the dramamongers.

Personally...

I believe in evolution.

Why?

It brings up a whole new and much brighter perspective. People do things because they can and they want to do such things, not because they're predetermined to do so by a fickle higher being. And everything is much more reasoned; things happen because things caused them to happen in the material world, not by some ethereal push.
Here ends my brief and vapid allegory.

-Rigel Lake

Science is based on proofs.

Religion is based on faith.

Based on the question, no one can 'prove' anything religious based because there are no proofs themselves. Doesn't mean there false, but if there were truely proofs... there would be a lot less arguments. QED, unless god(s) starts showing up and saying 'hi', there is no proof.

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, on the contrary, people believe on faith. As long as you have your faith to your religion, who cares?

That is my agnostic neutral view.

Ha! Here's trouble.

Rigel, I think you said What you believed in, then went into specifics on What, but never touched the why.

Just to shake the pot, I'll toss in some resonings for whats known as Neo-Paganism/Heathenism/Recreationism/Asatru or whatever you'd like to call them. My brilliant reasoning, for the sake of arguement will start out simple.

Ahem.

The old Gods were good enough for our ancestors, they should be more then good enough for us!

Ha! Just because I find the whole Athiest/Christian debate boring after so long.

Well, time to debate I for one am a strong believer of christianity. I can understand your belief of Evolution as it is hard to believe in a divine power creating all of existence. Anyway time to tell you why I think evolution is false.

I believe God created the universe and everything in it. Now, God has not predetermined what people will do he has given them the gift of free will allowing them to make their own descisions. Also I believe Christianity is makes more sense than evolution how could we all be created simply by chance? I don't believe that everything in existence could have simply been created by chance?

Now Science is based on proofs and Religion is based on faith. You can say that but can you give me proof that evolution actually happanned? We have fossils to prove evolution but can you actually show me physical proof that evolution is real? Also if Evolution is real than how come we aren't evolving right know? If we started off as simple cells and we are now complex creatures why aren't we still evolving constantly gaining new traits?

While it is true I cannot physically prove that God is real how can you explaine miracle's? How can you explain people surviving tornadoes without receving any injuries or people being cured by diseases with no cure? I find it hard to beleive by chance we have evolved into such complex beings.

Actually, Science is based on physical proof. But no one can actually prove anything at all. Science is based on faith just as much as any other religion. Why do I say this? Because for science to be real, what is around us must be real. And, no one can actually prove that it is or isn't. Just because your senses say it is, does not mean it is.

People who feel and sense things in their dreams know exactly what that is like. They know in their dreams that everything is real, yet they wake up in the morning to be proven wrong. Sure, this point gets into things like the matrix, but Socrates actually asked the same questions, along with Plato.

I say the dream thing because I'm one of the few people that 'suffer' from this disorder. My brain makes what I dream very physically real, not just making my body move to hurt myself or anything of the such. I actually feel things because my brain triggers those nerves to feel.

I believe in God and Jesus and Science.

??? (Is that your reaction to the above statement?)

I believe there is no conflict between religion and science, or rather, faith and knowledge. Science comes from the Latin word "scientas" which means knowledge. Without the faith that knowledge is out there, that it can be obtained, there is no science. Likewise, without that knowledge there cannot be faith to pursue it, discover it, or prove it.

I believe that there is no conflict between scientific discovery and what the Bible says. It is only our interpretations of scientific discovery AND / OR the Bible that produces conflict and hate and flaming people.

I believe that in every religion there lies fundamental truth, yet many twist these truths, these faiths, these moral codes of conduct into RELIGION, and thus the hatred, wars, intolerance, etc. that religion breeds. Read more on my blog: Fugitive Seeking Truth.

Well yes Science is based on physical proof but can you show me physical proof that we evolved from monkey's? Christianity is based on faith but it can be proven. For example their are many fossil's all around the world. How could that have happanned I'll tell you how the Flood. A massive flood God created that spread over the world it was used to destroy all of mankind except for Noah,his family, and many animals.

Now the Flood could have spread the fossil's all over the world how could Evolution have spread fossil's all over the earth? Has it not been rumored that the Ark of the Covenant has been found? This was used to carry the original copy of the ten commandment's or how about in 2007 when an alleged material sample of Noah's Ark was retrieved for lab analysis. Although the sample was determined by Department of Earth Sciences to be petrified wood the origin of the material remains uncertain. Also the sample was found in an unusual cave with fossilized wooden walls on Mount Ararat.

While religion is based on faith how can you explain the above things I have mentioned?

chulance wrote:Well, time to debate I for one am a strong believer of christianity. I can understand your belief of Evolution as it is hard to believe in a divine power creating all of existence. Anyway time to tell you why I think evolution is false.

I believe God created the universe and everything in it. Now, God has not predetermined what people will do he has given them the gift of free will allowing them to make their own descisions. Also I believe Christianity is makes more sense than evolution how could we all be created simply by chance? I don't believe that everything in existence could have simply been created by chance?

Now Science is based on proofs and Religion is based on faith. You can say that but can you give me proof that evolution actually happanned? We have fossils to prove evolution but can you actually show me physical proof that evolution is real? Also if Evolution is real than how come we aren't evolving right know? If we started off as simple cells and we are now complex creatures why aren't we still evolving constantly gaining new traits?

While it is true I cannot physically prove that God is real how can you explaine miracle's? How can you explain people surviving tornadoes without receving any injuries or people being cured by diseases with no cure? I find it hard to beleive by chance we have evolved into such complex beings.

I'll see if I can answer each of these three (body) paragraphs.

chulance wrote:I believe God created the universe and everything in it. Now, God has not predetermined what people will do he has given them the gift of free will allowing them to make their own descisions. Also I believe Christianity is makes more sense than evolution how could we all be created simply by chance? I don't believe that everything in existence could have simply been created by chance?

For your second sentence, I've provided an answer:

If God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, how come he cannot see what will happen? If he can see all, why can he not see how every person will eventually turn out?

chulance wrote:Now Science is based on proofs and Religion is based on faith. You can say that but can you give me proof that evolution actually happanned? We have fossils to prove evolution but can you actually show me physical proof that evolution is real? Also if Evolution is real than how come we aren't evolving right know? If we started off as simple cells and we are now complex creatures why aren't we still evolving constantly gaining new traits?

Actually, we can prove evolution is real. In reality, evolution is just the build-up of multiple mutations in coding material of cells; if the cell affected is a sex cell, it may pass its mutation to offspring.
Thusly, scientists have observed mutations in the laboratory by exposing colonies of bacteria to certain conditions; for example, in an experiment concerning a lack of water, a bacteria that can encyst itself within a hard, impermeable shell will be better equipped to live through drought, while a normal bacteria without the mutation's ability will be worse-off. Natural selection, or the favourable treatment of nature towards those individuals possessing good traits in their environment, eventually picks out the species' development.
As for the fourth sentence, evolution is stated to happen 'over a long period of time.' We have only been recording history for about 3000 years, whilst recognizable human-like creatures have developed about two-million years ago. Do you think that evolution will happen so drastically fast?

chulance wrote:While it is true I cannot physically prove that God is real how can you explaine miracle's? How can you explain people surviving tornadoes without receving any injuries or people being cured by diseases with no cure? I find it hard to beleive by chance we have evolved into such complex beings.

One word:

Chance.

Chance is fickle. There are many other people who have died horrific deaths in tornadoes, and yes, there have been many people killed by AIDS and other such diseases. Give us the Black Plague; it was an epidemic of bubonic plague that ran all through Europe. Most people died from it, yet others did not. Why did they not?

Chance, chance, and more chance.

I'm Christian science, so I believe in the Evolution and things like that, but God is the source of it. If you want me to point out things from the bible that proves evolution, just post and ask me.

chulance wrote:Now Science is based on proofs and Religion is based on faith. You can say that but can you give me proof that evolution actually happanned? We have fossils to prove evolution but can you actually show me physical proof that evolution is real? Also if Evolution is real than how come we aren't evolving right know? If we started off as simple cells and we are now complex creatures why aren't we still evolving constantly gaining new traits?

Yes, the best way to look at evolution is on the smallest level. Where things that only need to evolve on a small basis to create a large effect. Things like AIDS from the HIVirus. AIDS is brand new to humans, it used to only effect large cats like tigers and lions. Rumors and myths are talked about how humans got it, but either way, if that virus was not evolving... humans would never of gotten it.

The bird flu epidemic? People were afraid that the flu virus was evolving to effect humans.

Ever heard of penicillin? Remember if you do not take the whole thing, a stronger strain that was only injured will multiple now... the weak of the bug died but the strong lived. Producing more strong. That is fast paced evolution.

Evolution doesn't disprove religion. It is not an attack on it either. What says that god(s) did not want this?

chulance wrote:While it is true I cannot physically prove that God is real how can you explaine miracle's? How can you explain people surviving tornadoes without receving any injuries or people being cured by diseases with no cure? I find it hard to beleive by chance we have evolved into such complex beings.

Yes, I can explain how someone can survive a tornado without a scratch. Physics. People being cured? Immunity system. Whether a hand of god(s) played a hand in these 'miracles' or not, cannot not say, cannot proven, and really... does it matter? We can believe it was a coincidence or believe it was an act of faith.

***

There is no proof of the flood... yet. Whether is happened or not, cannot say. But if a religion can ever be proved, it no longer becomes a religion. It becomes a reality.

Ah! I forgot who said it, but there was the 'Free Will' thing for God. But there's also 'A plan for all of us' so there's Free Will despite the fact that everything has all ready been predetermined and God knows how everything is going to happen. It's called 'ineffability' which basically translates into: Rubbish that confuses the plebians into thinking its profound.

Now, I've got nothing against science. Or things coming from other things, I.E. Evolution. However, I'm aware of the very specific conditions required for earth to be able to support life, let alone a sentient and amazing species such as Humankind, so 'Chance' just doesn't quite cut it for me.

But this omnipresent One True God doesn't work for me either. If that were true, why would all of his prophets (I'm not refering to John Smith here, that whole bit is nutty too. Afterlife planetary realestate and magic underwear?) come out of the middle east, and, for the most part, around the same era? Too many holes, too many problems, and the fact that the Bible was written by a handful of men, and edited many times years later.

Polytheism makes more sense to me. A bunch of gods, for different peoples and places. They've got personalities, and why wouldn't they? Everything else does, from lizards to dogs to Man himself. Probably disfunctional too. THAT is man made in a Gods image there. It makes perfect sense, nutty world we live in anyway.

Edit: Oh, and if the Ark of the covenent had been found, everyone would know about it. If Noah's ark had been found, everyone would know about it. Finding old wood from a boat doesn't mean squat. We've been using boats for thousands of years before Mr. Christ started squawking.

Edit 2: The Bible supporting evolution? Go on. I've not heard of this, and I'm curious.

but can you prove how everything happened perfectly, BY accicdent?

-God created the big bang, in the right spot so earth would form in the right spot, because if the earth was a few 100 miles closer or further from our sun, it would DRAMATICALLY effect our av. earth temp.

-God made earth in the right conditions for life to form (because if the conditions were literally a hair off, life could not have formed)

-Have you noticed that how were conventionally placed in the universe FAR away from all the deadly things in out there and the only thing that can harm us are asteroids, and the FEW asteroids that have hit earth were FAR from humans.

-again anybody who wants me to prove evolution thru the bible, just ask

THe flood lasted only 150 days, it takes 100's of years for water to leave it's mark to last 4,000 years

I'd like to hear your support of Evolution from the bible. You believe this book to be the true word of god, and should be followed emphatically, yes?

God is omnipotent,omniscient, and omniprescent. He is,was, and will be. He exists everywhere. He exists in every moment in time so he knows everything you are doing ,have done, and will do. He has still given you free will but he knows what every person will do. He still let's people make their own choices but he knows what they will do.


We can prove evolution is real? I see what your saying Rigel Like about mutations being passed to offsprings. Evolution will it does make sense I can still prove it is wrong. Going by evolution the world has existed for millions or billions of years. Evolution is a slow process, even than have we shown any signs of evolution? Should we not be slowly developing new traits. While I can understand it won't happen at a fast pace we have been recording history for 3000 years and we have not evolved at all.

I find it hard to believe that 3000 years is not enough to time to have even the slightest amount of development.

Now, you believe in chance. Many have died horrible deaths in Tornadoes,yet many have survived? So this is simply determined by chance? It is God is it chance that some have done the possible a plane crashed everyone died except two people? It seems more likely that a divine power could have choosen that two people would live and the rest would die.

I do not believe in Christianity being combined with Evolution. I either believe in one or the other. Where in the Bible has it stated that God created us with evolution he created us in 7 days well actually 6 and he took the seventh day to rest. So, the virus started to only effect large cats than spread to humans? The Virus did not evolve it simply spread because humans got it the virus dosen't have to evolve just spread to other species.

The bird flu never evolved we simply feared it would spread and affect humans. Evolution does disprove Christianity it may not disprove other religions. In Genisis it is stated God created the universe and everything in it in 6 days and rested on the seventh day. If God had wanted evolution he would have stated in the Bible that he created the world using evolution.

Their is a strong possiblity that God could have prevented people from being harmed in tornadoes or cured people of deadly diseases. It seems unlikely that because of chance these things could simply happen. While their may be no exact proof of the flood how can you explain fossil's being spread over earth what event in evolution could have done that?

Well, yes their is a A plan for all of us but we don't always follow the plan God has made for us we are not physically controlled or forced to do the plan. It is our choose to choose the path God has made for us or the path who choose to make. Altough their are consequences if you go down the wrong path. We can reject God but the punishment is eternal suffering in the after-life, but if we accept him we have eternal paradise in the afterlife.

God knows everything and what we will do. Why all of his prophets come from the middleeast I don't know I'm not God he knows all. God told this handfull of men what to write. A bunch of Gods makes no sense to me and I cannot believe in it. One supream God who rules the universe fairly sounds better. God made men in his image he has a personality but he is perfect he will never sin he is the most powerful being in the universe.

I said it was rumored to be found. I never said the entire Ark I said part of it. While finding old wood from a boat won't prove anything it's quite odd it's found in the place the Bible said it was. Also another way to prove the Bible is real is it talked about future events such as his people getting Israel back how could these people just know about an event that would happen thousands of years later without some sort of divine power telling them what to write?

I've heard of the Bible supporting evolution but I do not like this theory for it disagree's with the Bible. God did not create this big bang he created the universe simply by telling it to be created. Chance could not simply create everything I agree with you their Eragon the Sniper. I don't see how that proved evolution through the Bible. Please prove to me evolution through the Bible. The flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights. Also it would not take 100 years God is omnipotent therefore he is above the physical laws he can do anything.

ok, keep this in mind, this was written 5,000+ years ago.

(Genesis)

1- God created the heavens and the earth (Note that the HEAVENS was mentioned first, the Big bang)

2-THe earth was black and formless (Molten earth) And then God created the oceans and the seas.

3-THen the light of the stars reached earth (the universe is "expanding")

4-Plant life

5- then sea life

6-then land life

7-God created Adam "FROM THE EARTH"

This is in order in the bible and evolution (by most scientists)

THe flood was 150 days (Genesis 7:24)

God never used a Big bang unless you give me proof of a scripture that says God used the big bang to create the heavens and the earth. Trying to combine evolution with the Bible simply can't work for evolution happens over a period of millions to billions of years while the creation of the universe in the Bible happens in 7 days. God created Adam from the earth with his divine power along with the rest of the universe.

you take the words TO LITERALLY!!!! Those christians I don;t like. Go out and kill a Witch (Ex. 22:18) and stop Homo-sexuality (Lev. 18:22.) God said it is an ABOMINATION! God said for you to kill a witch, why don;t you do it?

And I don't take it 7 days of night and day, I take it as 7 million or billion years.

See, Eragon is using some good thinking in his front. Chulance, you are full of religious self-righteousness, and your eloquence is suffering. You should slow down and think of the words, not just what your trying to say.

Are either of you men? Do either of you shave? Because God doesn't want you to do that, either. Leviticus 19:27 Wearing clothes of multiple fabrics, i.e. 80% cotton: Leviticus 19:19 Did you have any teacher that was a woman? That's forbidden (I Timothy 2:12) Or have you ever eaten a ham, or bacon? Shellfish? Leviticus 11:7, 10

I'd say if you can't take the Bible literally in all things, then you'd better consider that it was written and put together by men 1600-2000 years ago.

I just shaved my mustache for the fist time 2 weeks ago. (I'm 16, 3 months away from 17)

But God never said he didn't use evolution. The bible has been translated (to English, 5 languages) so ALLOT has been lost in translation. In the Original hebrew text is says 'God created the heavens AND THEN the earth'

So I have faith In God and Jesus (who died for my sins) I just believe that God used evolution (I have faith in that while you have faith in devine creation. I believe in divine creation, but thru evolution)

And this is the quote my pastor said:

"One pair of open hands can do more in life then 1,000 hands clasp in prayer BUT one hand clasp in prayer can do more for you emotionally then 1,000 hands patting your back)

And why are you attacking me? I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT! If anything, you should attack Moniker for not believing (no offense Moniker)

But in the new testament Jesus said forget most of the things that the old testament is forbidden, except for the few things he named (one was homosexuality)