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by **silvernekokitsune** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:58 pm

ooc:true grave, can i add u to my friends?

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by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:09 pm

True Grave wrote:Quote three: I would rather do the baseball catcher crouch if I was going to pick up something for a gay person. I just feel I should do that, rather than just bending straight over. Unless my backside was not facing the person I now to be gay, then I'd bend over and pick it up. Also, that example was to show that I would treat them with human decency. That was the point of it.

I find this whole thing here to be extremely ridiculous. Please tell me why you will not bend over in front of a homosexual.

True Grave wrote:Quote four: I really don't harbor any irrational hatred towad them. I'm not going to beat them, insult them or in any way harm them, physically, mentally or emotionally. I'm sorry you believe I would after I have stated that I wouldn't.

I don't believe you because you already have insulted homosexuals--insulted me-- and in those statements have emotionally harmed them. I don't believe that you wouldn't do these things because I just watched you do some of those things. Yes, that is contradictory (see the quote below.) You didnot apologize for being offensive, you apologized for being open with your opinions. You were very choosy with that apology. If that was what you meant for it to be for, I am glad, but that doesn't change the fact that you did it in the first place.

True Grave wrote:Quote five: This whole post is my response to quote five. In truth, I think you just want to argue. That's the only reason you would repeatedly disregard the sincerity of what I'm saying and costantly say I'm contradicting myself. I'm not, or maybe I'm changing my opinion, rather than contradicting myself.

I hate arguing. Oh God I hate it so much. But what I hate even more is letting people get away with stuff without ever being informed of the things they have done. I really just want you to be aware of some things. Honestly.

And, of course, I really want to know why you refuse to bend over in front of someone you know is a homosexual--in a purely nonsexual, casual, day-to-day manner, such as picking up a dropped item in a store. I want to know because I am 99% positive that any answer you give will be inexcusable and ignorant (the reason, not you) and unbelievably insulting to homosexuals as a group--as human beings. And because I do not want to assume all the worst things, I want the answer from you. So that you can (god, hopefully) prove me wrong. My hope is that if you try to "speak" it, it will force you to realize just how silly it sounds.

:\ I want you to know just how silly this all is. I think I just came to that conclusion. It's just so silly to speak so badly of people who have literally never done anything negative to you, and then be upset when people are unhappy with what you say, and then accuse others of being argumentative when they want you to discuss what you have posted in a thread designed for that sort of conversation. It's just so, so silly. I really want this to go well, Grave. I honestly and truly do. I have no problem with how you feel about homosexuality. None whatsoever. I have a problem with how you conduct yourself in regards to the matter, and with what I assume to be latent mistrust in them (hence why I want to know exactly why you will not bend over, etc etc etc.)

This thread has now been dragged SO off topic. But you know, I think this is a good discussion. I apologize to the OP. I hope this is resolved tonight, OP!

by **Gogo Kunimura** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Well, opinions are opinions. I believe they should be allowed to get married in the eyes of the creator. Honestly? Feelings are what make people, people. Ya know? Hence the whole 'will' thing that comes with being human. ....

Then there is the fact of ....Commonlaw marriage. ...I think most states have them. Going to a post office or something like that after being stated as living together for more then so many years. ...I'm not sure.

by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Gogo Kunimura wrote:Well, opinions are opinions. I believe they should be allowed to get married in the eyes of the creator. Honestly? Feelings are what make people, people. Ya know? Hence the whole 'will' thing that comes with being human. ....

Then there is the fact of ....Commonlaw marriage. ...I think most states have them. Going to a post office or something like that after being stated as living together for more then so many years. ...I'm not sure.

Very good addition, that common-law thing. Here's a bit of information for you from a wikipedia article:
"Cohabitation alone does not create a common-law marriage; the couple must hold themselves out to the world as husband and wife."
Husband and wife.
"Since the mid-1990s, the term "common-law marriage" has been used in parts of Europe and Canada to describe various types of domestic partnership between persons of the same sex as well as persons of the opposite sex."
Europe and Canada.
"In the United States, new common law marriages arising in the state are still recognised in Alabama, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and the District of Columbia."
Only in these states.

Common Law Marriage isn't as helpful as one would hope :\ They have Domestic Partnerships for homosexuals, but most states don't allow/recognize them so they aren't really much good.

by **silvernekokitsune** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:27 pm

i used to get really emotional when i would debate this stuff with my dad and i would start to cry. my dad isnt against it but...uhh lets just leave it at that. but me and him would argue sommetimes and i would start crying because i thought it was unfair. at least i can carry on this convo. online without crying lol

by **True Grave** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:30 pm

I just don't want to bend over in front of a homosexual person. I don't expect the worst, but I just don't want to. Plus, I stated I would bend down in front of them if my backside was not facing them. It may sound silly, but it's just how I feel. Why do you not kiss a man? Because you don't want to. Same thing. If you want a more specific apology, I'm sorry for being offensive. I'm sorry I insulted you and homosexuals, but I'm trying to explain that I don't like their way of life. I have nothing against the whole person, just their homosexuality. But chances are that I will never say anything hurtful to a homosexual in real life and know I will not beat them or physically harm them. It can go well. We just have to stop arguing and you have to stop focusing so hard on trying to make me explain everything. I have given you an apology, I have tried to be peaceful, because I'm sic of arguing. Please just accept my opinion and accept my reasons why. If I met you in real life, I probably wouldn't care if you were gay as long as it wasn't effecting me. As Russel Crowe put it: Are you satisfied?

by **Gogo Kunimura** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Well, that solves my questions. Just something that floated out there.

Thanks for that poetry.

by **papolatte** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:34 pm

At least noone is harping on this global heating issue.

If you don't get that joke, it's from a show, but aha, I felt it necessary.

Let bygones be bygones?

Honestly though, I prefer to base the rating system off of rp, though some people don't, I prefer it, because I like to know someone's effort and skill, not really their unpersonable demeaners.

Anywho, back to the post.

Yay gay peoples?

I already said I was for it :B

So... *claps for them* That a couple supporters yousa be having.

by **Gogo Kunimura** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:41 pm

I know people such as that, Grave. Friends with homosexuals, dislike their way of life. I got them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just as long as this topic doesn't turn into a flamefest '08. Who knows? I was part of a few 'sites' that did that. Random unintelligable underlings barge into a perfectly good topic of discussion and rant about how their hatred thrives on the basis of the topic in general. Anway....Where was I?

Oh yeah. Your not the only one like that Grave, as I've said, I have friends that are like that as well.

by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:52 pm

True Grave wrote:I just don't want to bend over in front of a homosexual person. I don't expect the worst, but I just don't want to. Plus, I stated I would bend down in front of them if my backside was not facing them. It may sound silly, but it's just how I feel. Why do you not kiss a man? Because you don't want to. Same thing.

This does not compare to being openly affectionate with someone. They are in no way the same thing and in no way involve the same set of actions or emotions or pretenses or premeditation. Nothing. I'm sorry, but this isn't an acceptable answer to me. Looks like I won't be getting one. Separate from that completely incompatable and non-sequitur framework, "I just don't" is a bit disappointing. If that's the only answer you can give, then it sounds like you may need to rethink that mindset--if you have no real reason for it, that is.

True Grave wrote:If you want a more specific apology, I'm sorry for being offensive. I'm sorry I insulted you and homosexuals, but I'm trying to explain that I don't like their way of life. I have nothing against the whole person, just their homosexuality. But chances are that I will never say anything hurtful to a homosexual in real life and know I will not beat them or physically harm them. It can go well.

Wonderful! Thank you very much. :3 I mean it wholeheartedly. I truly do.

True Grave wrote:We just have to stop arguing and you have to stop focusing so hard on trying to make me explain everything.

In a thread focused around the discussion of viewpoints, you need to be able to explain yourself. If I am going to ask you to explain something, it means I am giving you the chance to elaborate on the image I now have of you in my head. It is actually a courtesy to you. Rather than shutting you down and hating your guts, I am trying to learn more precisely what you mean.

True Grave wrote:I have given you an apology, I have tried to be peaceful, because I'm sic of arguing. Please just accept my opinion and accept my reasons why. If I met you in real life, I probably wouldn't care if you were gay as long as it wasn't effecting me. As Russel Crowe put it: Are you satisfied?

The end of that was lame. If this is such a task, just stop responding. Don't question my satisfaction as though I were cruelly torturing a conversation out of you. I'm so sorry I asked you to explain yourself in a discussion thread. (Sarcasm, yes.) If you aren't sure whether or not my homosexuality would/wouldn't matter in a chance meeting, that means it matters in some way :\ It means it matters to you. And that's fine! However, we're right back to square one, in that I simply don't believe you. I just don't believe you are as unbiased and nonplussed as you claim to be. See, I'm not accusing you of lying, I promise you. I think that you truly believe what you're saying, but that unknowingly, it isn't wholly true. That is how I feel about it, it may or may not be correct.

I am going to repeat this, hopefully for the last time, in red:

True Grave wrote:Please just accept my opinion and accept my reasons why.

You are not being persecuted, least of all for your opinions. No one gives a crap about anyone's opinions in here, it's all about conversation. No one's upset about your opinions. I am not upset by your opinions. Other people have agreed with and/or repeated opinions similar to yours, and no one questioned them on it. Your opinion is not the issue. It has never been the issue. Your behavior and your inability to hold an actual discussion is what has been under fire.

Yes of course I accept your apology. I am very glad you are putting the effort into replying to my posts. I thank you for this telling experience. I wish you the best. If you prefer to continue this, I do prefer it be in PMs, because it seems there will be no new discussion material to be had from it. We've run it through the gauntlet, so to speak.

by **True Grave** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:03 pm

Fine. I cannot win, no matter what I say. Very well, Poetry, I shall go. I found this conversation not the least bit interesting. You have actually exhausted me with your dissatisfaction with everything I say and every explanation I give. It is not a discussion because a discussion moves forward. We are not moving forward. I want no more mention of me or my opinions, becuse I do not want dragged back into this. If I am mentioned, I will have to defend myself and probably once more prove to be unsatisfactory in your eyes, Poetry. And pleae, God, just read this and don't respond with your annoying and nitpicky style of putting individual things in quotations and then responding to them. Move on, like we both want to do.

by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:59 pm

Wheeew.

Just for the sake of the thread (since confusion abounds!) Matter "resolved" in PMs! Yay!

papolatte wrote:Honestly though, I prefer to base the rating system off of rp, though some people don't, I prefer it, because I like to know someone's effort and skill, not really their unpersonable demeaners.

Mang, you should see my posts in the Rank/Reputation Explanation thread. Oh Lawd!

Gogo Kunimura wrote:Well, that solves my questions. Just something that floated out there.

Of course that was just wikipedia xD For all I know, all of that information is 100% wrong. From personal experience, however, my father and "stepmother" were together for like 16 years and never had any Common Law rights. :\ Sad, really. They were waiting until they could afford a nice ceremony, but were engaged for years on end because of it with no legal connections. Then she died D: But that's another story entirely!

by **The Rogue Doll** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:09 am

You know, I think it's kind of funny that people believe that if someone is gay, they are going to be attracted to them (male or female). That's like thinking that all heterosexuals only think of the opposite sex as a sex object, which is true in some cases, but most times not. I guess that's just a social thing that will work itself out in time.

And on the Common Law marriage thing...there are definitely benefits to being married to someone. If you have no known family and you die, your assets, your finances, your life savings, go back to the state, if I'm not mistaken, but in lieu of a will, your things go to your wife/husband. This isn't just important in inheriting things, but also if you are incapacitated, important life decisions are left with the closest of kin.

For example. My grandma lived with a man for quite a while. They were never married because they were old and it didn't matter too much to them, they were in love. She died. Some time later he died. At his funeral, they did a slide show of all the many women in his life. He had been an alcoholic and had come out to his exes saying he hadn't loved them but had wanted them to be happy and wanted kids. So all of these women, not his loves, got commemorated at his memorial, but not her, the person he said he truly loved. There was nothing we could do about it because we were not his family. She had died before they could be considered common law married.

But I rant. My point is, common law marriage even where it exists doesn't really cut it in comparison to legal marriage.

by **Vyrwolf** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:17 am

People who are against gay marriage just believe that THEIR way is the right way, and nothing else. They believe that THEIR morals are right, and hence should be allowed to force them on other people. They say they're 'setting the moral standard', while in reality they just want to force their ideals on those who don't affect them in the slightest. =P

by **Myrin** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:02 am

*Loves on ThatsNotPoetry*

I'm cool with the gays and in betweens. I have a lot of friends in that ring.

True Grave, honestly I skimmed this topic. I'm quite sure you'll keep an eye on this topic so... here is MY opinion. I think that you need to take a breath or two before replying. You're opinions were a little harsh but you already apologized and that is what counts. Now, my question to you.

What would you do if your child was gay?

Being gay is NOT a life style, a lot of religious folk do not understand this. You can lock a kid away, keep them from T.V. and everything else but at the end of the day they're still who they are.

I mean Greek/Roman Gods were Bisexual. Zeus ran around as a goat having sex with boys. This has been around since the beginning of time. And whoever said male dogs don't have sex with other males, hunnie I've seen one give another oral and then some.

AND kids grow up healthier with same sex couples despite those ignorant little fucks who screw with them for it. You're more

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