I have been playing rpg's and board games for years and one of my favorite parts of the games are the dice. There are a lot of websites these days that allow you to roll dice but I find it hard to mojo a button click.

I know many people play rpg's online and this is fine but I like the socialization provided by dice and a table. I like to hold them and feel that I can change the outcome by giving them the proper shake.

Does anyone else feel this way, or am I a nut job?

GMDice

I've never played a tabletop RPG. I've played other games that require dice, but no RPG's. So I can't really say.

I've never really thought of dice as an important part of a game--they're just a tool to ensure random chance. The only game I've ever played that requires more than one kind of dice is "Heroscape."

As far as I'm concerned though, dice are symmetrical lumps of plastic with numbers drawn on the sides. No special place in my heart.

I've never actually played with dice either. However, I can see where you come from. It would be like the computer for people who playbypost rp or something of that category. It's just a tool to some, but if taken away from the equation, the game becomes useless. Some people recognize this power and importance, others do not. Just depends on if you see the tree or the forest.

Village Alchemist wrote:they're just a tool to ensure random chance.

As far as I'm concerned though, dice are symmetrical lumps of plastic with numbers drawn on the sides. No special place in my heart.

I'm with you on that. They just ensure chance.

Though while I do not feel I can influence the result of my roll regardless of how I roll or pray and whatnot (or sing like Sky Masterson in Guys and Dolls ), there is a sort of satisfaction that comes from rolling your own die or dice.



It would be nice to do that for online games too but... how do you prove what your roll was? XDDD

I cannot do without dice really. I'm almost done making a no dice, turn based game. It's tough...
People think dice mean luck. Very rarely is that the case, because it comes down to how you build and play your PC.

Remæus wrote:

Melika wrote:It would be nice to do that for online games too but... how do you prove what your roll was? XDDD

Oooh, actually - our chat has a die rolling system. (Click "Hide/Show Chat" bottom right...)

Code: Select all

/roll 1d20

I think there are tons of different ways to roleplay, and dice have their place - especially in systems that have statistics. Of course, adding statistics makes it more of a role playing game rather than just roleplay. Which is also why the dice are so important in such games!

I mean with real dice, for your online game. Melding the physical world with the mental online game and you have something more real, no?

Clicking a button to roll a die just is not the same. Of course, I also love my board games and watching everyone's faces while they work out their strategy. o.O;

The feel of the dice vs online dice. I'd rather online. Then again, I've always preferred playing online. Text vs Acting any day for me, mostly because it can be taken a bit more serious.

Hi! I'm a spoken word role-playing game designer and I've been asked to pop in with a comment or two.

Thing is? You guys are all correct. The fetish of rolling dice for a role-playing game is just that. There is a long tradition going back to the original release of Dungeons & Dragons for this and many people are totally acculturated to it. So they have their fun and you have yours. (Frankly, I've seen a certain amount of fetishization with things like computer mouses and console game controls, but that's a whole different issue.)

As a game designer, I've had to take a close look at the possible uses for dice in tabletop role-playing games. While most people consider them a way to resolve conflicts, they rarely actually get used for that. There are two other uses that are far more common; creation of detail and the creation of suspense (and often not exactly the way you might think).

The most common use for dice in these games is to create detail. The prime example is trying to affect an inanimate object. In many games, either you do or you don't; in some it gives how much. So-called 'faliure' is actually detail which indicates there are more complicated actions necessary. Success results in the accumulation of detail before moving on. For example, a thief tries to pick a lock; the main detail altered is if the door is open or not. I call this a detail because of its place in the overall game. Failure means they have to come up with some other way in; that complicates things for them, doesn't it? Success means they go through the door, a trivial detail in the whole of the game.

The second most common use for dice is the expression of suspense. Now you might think that's a 'did he do it' or 'did he fail' kind of suspense. That's how it looks at the time, but in the longer run, it builds or removes complication from the flow of the game. A buddy of mine once said:

"Suspense doesn't come from uncertain outcomes; it comes from putting off the inevitable." -- Vincent Baker

The goals of the players are quite simply inevitable. Suspense as Vincent puts it is in how many complications will the players overcome before reaching their goal? The dice cater to this.

The third way that dice act upon role-playing game play is in resolving conflicts. The reason this is rare is because of how infrequently most games have your roll dice against another person also rolling dice. (This also varies from one game to another.) Rolling dice against another character's defenses is not conflict; it's you versus the target. You certainly wouldn't call shooting a target in archery a conflict, would you? When your archery is measured against that of another person then it is a conflict. (Indirectly if each contestant rates their own score first.)

Many different play-by-not-face-to-face systems incorporate differing ways of resolving conflicts and therefore don't see any need for dice. That's a good thing! While it is completely possible to rely upon good gamesmanship for the results of different rolls, this still introduces an element of mistrust. You'll notice a lot of play-by-chat games have a robot to make die rolls. Some for conflict, some not.

An alternative people haven't really considered (in my experience) is using dice on your end of the game alone. One form of gaming often overlooked is solitaire play. When you make up a character for tabletop role-playing games, you are playing with only yourself. There are many examples where character generation is somewhat or totally random, depending on the game system. That's you playing with dice by yourself.

What most people don't realize is that when you prepare your entry for non-spoken word gaming, you are actively playing by yourself. If you wanted, you could take any game system you liked and use that to 'play' out what you are going to submit.¹ You'd roll for the success and failures and simply write them into your entry. No one would really know that this was how you did it (unless the dice wreck the quality of your story, I suppose).

So that's the different way that dice are used in role-playing games. How important they are varies from one group to another. Or rather from one group's sense of fairness to another's. This is really one of those discussions where nobody has a wrong answer.

Fang Langford
Designer of The Scattershot Role-Playing Game

¹ You'll have to forgive my ignorance here. I'm just beginning to learn how to play RolePlayGateway style.

Ah, the feel of holding 3d6 in your hand to determine how strong or how intelligent you are...

I remember that dice held a certain mythic aura to them. As though, if you coaxed or threatened your dice just hard enough, you could get them to roll as you like. Or when you roll a 1 and end up getting ground into dragon toe jam, and you yell and throw your d20 across the room. Never throw a d4, though, as it's certain to get lost, only to embed itself into your foot some time in the future.

I also remember buying new sets of dice, comparing them with your friends, and everyone trying to get the coolest dice. The clatter as they hit the table, and roll, waiting to find out if you will live or die-- there is a lot of fun to be had over not being in absolute control of your character's actions. I still have a set of yellow-flecked green dice, and the remnants of a transparent navy blue (with silver sparkles!) set.

All of you who have only gamed online, if you ever have the chance to be a part of a serious pen and paper game, I recommend giving it an honest try. There's a different kind of fun to be had there.

Hell, I can almost taste the bowl of cheesies and Dr. Pepper- almost smell my fellow nerds as we soar across Krynn on dragons, or flee through the dark forests of Ravenloft. The immediacy of the game also affects the experience. You don't have all day to plan and write out your next move. The improvised nature of this type of roleplay is an exciting experience, as well.

So many good experiences, all surrounding those little plastic dice.

Dice make the game.

Remæus wrote:Oh, of course it's not the same - nothing beats the superstitous rolling, and the woot you yell when you get a natural 20.

Quoted for truth.

Of course, people use d20 rolls outside of combat as well, and people complain about a waste of a 20 when it's for, say, a skill check, but no matter what you're rolling for, EVERYONE cringes when that dreaded 1 shows up.

Unless it's the DM that's rolling the die for when your opponent tries to hit you. Then everyone goes phew and resume beating the crap out of whatever pissed them off this time.

It's true, about the wasted 20's. As though there's a limited supply, and you've just lost one to an extraneous roll.

Definitely I wouldn't play a freeform roleplay... It simply has no sense, no more than the empty chat chat chat you can find everywhere on the web!
Structured RP, then, can be played without dice (Amber Diceless etc), but I wouldn't give the GM the power to judge on skill checks and combat. I prefer simple rules systems (Call Of Cthulhu, BRP) with dice, since EVERY action doesn't happen twice the same way!

I play tabletop RP's every Monday and Thursday night, it's not so simple to say dice are necessary for every game, it would be perfectly possible to play an RPG without them and before now we've spent entire sessions of four hours without making even one roll, whilst still playing games with dice based rules mechanics.

If you want another site as well as this one, that you can prove the dice rolls on, invisiblecastle.com. The ref can check via hyperlink what the roll was, and can check how many times that player has rolled. But in terms of real dice and computer RPing, well I suppose it's down to trusting your players, or having a ref that makes some or at least the most important dice rolls for the players. Though that throws up the issue of the players not trusting a ref. There's no sure way, but hey ho.

I used to play a tabletop RP game (*cough* Warhammer *cough*) and it was a ton of fun to play with dice.

I even use dice while freeform Rp'ing, at least during fights. I say if the dice is low, then my character does something stupid, or weak or whatever, and high let me make a strong move without feeling bad. 'Cause I know I'd just godmod like hell if I didn't give myself some kind restraint....

I feel stupid.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

How come? What part do you not understand?