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McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why?

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Re: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why? ( )

Postby Morning Star on Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:47 pm

I have to say Obama. McCain wants to lower taxes, which isn't the most sensible thing to do right now. We happen to have a large debt built up, and unless something is done about that now, all of us kids are going to have to pay it off when we're adults. Raising taxes doesn't sound like fun, but it is much better than putting it off until we have to sell the country to get out of debt. (I wouldn't put it past 'em.)

Really, I don't like either candidate. I just think Obama is the lesser of the two evils.
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Re: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why? ( )

Postby Silithsel on Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:19 am

I will vote for McCain.

The things Obama stands for make me nervous.

Taxes - While it's all well and good to give tax breaks to everyone making under $250,000, Obama's plan to raise taxes on small businesses making over that is recipe for trouble. Did you know that a small business can have up to 500 employees? (I work for one which employees 10 people.) If their taxes go up and the companies are forced to make cuts, that ultimately hurts the employees. It doesn't matter how much of a tax break I get if I don't have a job in the first place. On top of that, Obama's theory of "we've got to spread the wealth around, ya know" irks me. It's a slow decent into socialism and class warfare that goes against American values.

National Security - This may be the biggest issue for me. While I may not agree with every decision that's been made about Iraq over the past years, I know we can't just pull out of there now. Setting a date to withdraw is like telling the terrorists, "Ok, you guys just lay low until this date, then you can have Iraq back." McCain understands how important it is to have stability in the middle east. Also, Hamas endorses Obama and that by itself should be a red flag. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas).

On top of those, there are other things about Obama that rub me the wrong way. Reverend Wright, for example. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788 It hasn't been in the media much lately, but Obama sat in his church for 20 years listening to hate speech. Obama claims he did not hear the hate speech from Rev. Wright. So that leaves two possibilities. Either Obama is lying. Or he's unaware of what is going on around him. Neither buy him any points in my book.
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Re: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why? ( )

Postby FattiMagoo on Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:33 pm

Village Alchemist wrote:I speak as a libertarian who really liked Ron Paul and is sad.

Here's the way I see my loyalties here breaking down:

MCCAIN
+Relaxing of gun laws
+Business experience
-Anti-abortion
-Imperialistic military policies
-suppport of domestic survailance
-neoconservatism
-overly-fearful foreign relations policy
-offshore oil drilling

OBAMA
+Permissive of abortion
+Relatively new (yes, that's a plus. Less time in Washington is less time being corrupted)
+Consideration of the possiblity of the opening of relations with nations that do not operate with the exact same style of government
+decidedly not a neocon'
+Wanting to focus war efforts on Afganistan rather than Iraq
+energy policy
-gun control

All in all, I find Obama the lesser of the two evils. But they still never talk about the Federal Reserve, therefore they suck. :D


I'm probably going to end up voting for McCain because I think he's going to keep Bush's tax cuts in place (thus not allowing them to go up), but I liked the way this was presented, and it made me take another look at Obama. For the record, I'm a big fan of Ron Paul as well.
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Re: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why? ( )

Postby Yoshi Nelly on Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:08 pm

i say that it is not worth voting for none of them im mean come on everyone knows that obama is going to get shot and maccin is stupid and he is just probaly going to kill us so ya... no point for this election
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Re: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden? Why? ( )

Postby ThatsNotPoetry on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:56 am

<3 for Obama! I've been quite active in this political season and donated a good deal of money. I feel proud. :3 I think a lot of folks have been unusually active in this season, actually. Everyone on all sides should be proud of themselves for standing up for what they believe in. It's been a very intense race! I'm typing this post as the title of the thread asks: who am I voting for and why. I will not be picking at anyone else's pick. I think that's a bad idea.

Obama makes me proud to be a democrat again. I was in elementary school when Clinton was running, and I had loved that guy back then. Still do. I get excited whenever he's on TV. Same for Obama. He brings back that sense of purpose in me, as a citizen. His intelligence and judgment are reliable, in my eyes. He's calm and thoughtful, really considering his decisions before he makes them. I think that the "anti-intellectualism" that has taken hold in this country is dangerous. People mock him for being smart and having good taste. How much of a reflection on the attacker is that? We should want a president who is smarter than the average American. They do things that we can't do. Sure, I like my neighbor Joy. But I don't want her to be my president. McCain isn't average, either. He's very smart and has sacrificed more than 99.999% of us ever have. He is a millionaire (with his wife), and Obama has his own fair share of money, too. Everyone in upper level government does. Palin is TESTAMENT to this. How do people attack Obama as an "elist"? By the critic's definition, they all are, and so what. Our leaders need to be better than us, because the average American is NOT fit to lead the nation.

When Obama had his long (really, an hour longer than normal) talk with Petraeus, the general really saw where he was coming from and was comfortable with him. Bush had never outright put his food down with Petraeus. The guy had had free range, so to speak. Obama wouldn't provide that range because his duty is to lay down his own ideas, but they came to a good understand about their roles in that discussion. It gave me a little hope for this war. His desire to bring it back around to the areas that matter are extremely important.

No matter who you vote for, Obama has closed a gap in our populace, even if only temporarily. The racial divide feels a little less this season. My girlfriend is black, and through her I have gained better understand of American black culture (and yes, there are great differences, but they are not the key definers. That's neither here nor there.) But Obama is like this loving link between all races. He's a strong symbol of our healthy diversity and the possibilities that the country offers for everyone. I like that.

I like that he wants to help the average worker's rights to their money. Not to take away the wealthier person's rights, but to give the rest of us a better grip. I saw a fantastic post on a Digg discussion, where an older gentleman was speaking about Obama's interview seven years ago in which he had first mentioned "spreading the wealth around." Obama no longer uses the phrase because people define it differently from him. This older gentleman said that a while back he had been working for a company who paid very fairly. He said that every year, on top of their Christmas Bonus checks, they would receive a Growth Check. The money was a part of the excess profits that the yearly growth of the company provided. He said that no one even knows what those checks are anymore, because those at the top just pocket all the extra profits on top of their usual pay, denying the profits of the workers who made them possible. He said it was a form of "wealth spreading;" a kind that critics ignore so they can take the low ground and attack their own definition of the phrase. I felt really sorry for that guy. He was aware that "redistribution" means giving people back the money they worked to earn; not giving them extra money that wasn't theirs to begin with. But he knows he'll probably never see a fair workplace like that again.

I like that he wants to strengthen our health care system. My girlfriend works in a doctor's office. I have come to understand a great deal of the follies in our medical system--particularly with health insurance. Privatizing that stuff is going to hurt the majority. It's going to diminish medicare. It's going to force people to shop for their own health insurance, which is incredibly difficult. Lots of folks are turned away or forced to pay inordinate amounts of money, especially if they have pre-existing conditions. Then doctors will deny coverage depending on who their providers are. I find it ironic that so many European countries have far superior health care systems, but we parade ours around and refuse to do what works because it's "not democratic." Yes, our democracy is wonderful, but no government is perfect. If something's not working, try something that does work. It's the folks who shout "I'm not paying taxes for someone else's medical bills!" that really make this place embarrassing sometimes. It's a potluck. Everyone adds to the potluck, and if anyone gets sick, they take a little from the potluck and go to the hospital. Yes, some may end up requiring more than others. So then you argue "why should I pay for them to have triple-bypass-surgery when I NEVER see the doctor?" That's wonderful, and I hope you keep your health until your 90! But what if you don't? What if you're in an accident and end up needing $30,000 more medical attention than the average American? Good thing everyone was altruistic and we had that potluck, huh? We are too greedy. Our society is closing up. We don't "love our neighbor" like we're supposed to. We as human beings can't survive that way. Those with all the money can, but the rest of us (you know, MOST of us) don't have that kinda money.

I like that he doesn't want to take away anyone's rights; just give people the opportunity to regain them, on both sides. He doesn't want to take away people's guns, he just wants better control of them. He won't take away the "sanctity of marriage," he just wants gays to have the rights to similar unions. He doesn't support abortion (really, does anyone WANT abortions? of course not), he just doesn't want to take away a woman's right to have one. He doesn't want to take away anything from our society. He wants to add to it. I respect that.

He has tons of ideas and plans that are either new or being refreshed and brought to the surface. His plans for new energy are one set of MANY examples which a post above me has already outlined in neat listed order. xD What I think people need to remember are that taxes are necessary. We talk about taxes as though we should never ever be forced to pay them. Taxes are required for our society to function. When Charlie Christ cut home owners taxes in Florida, all of our state services lost tons of money. Fire stations, police stations, libraries, community centers, schools... But no one paid attention to that. They were too greedy and have zero understanding of how taxes work. When the schools lost money, they laid of between 9% and 17% of their staff. Parents freaked. When colleges starting cutting financial aid, a good deal of my fellow students started dropping classes. When the library lost 8 million, cut hiring (staying understaffed), raised fines, and cut new materials, the people in my county had a fit. We have to explain to them regularly that the tax break they voted for was the cause of it. We. Need. Taxes.

I like that he was strong opinions on parents' roles in the raising of their children. Having been without his father for the majority of his life, he's aware of the effects this can have. He pushes for parents to be more responsible and active in their lives of their children. Some may think that it's an obvious requirement and that it's silly to bring it up. But I can tell you, too many parents simply aren't good parents... It directly affects how the next generation will develop, and so directly affects all of us.

I have a great love for McCain. He was always one of my favorite political figures. His interviews on the Daily Show were THE BEST. I had been looking forward to his next run. But he has changed too many of his policies in this race (and completely denies it.) He has changed, somehow, and I no longer trust him or the way plans his attacks. It's desperate and underhanded. He has made too many poor decisions in this race, and brought a really hateful pocket of society bubbling to the surface. He seems to be regretting it now, as he takes microphones away from old ladies claiming Obama is a terrorist. He's the one who keeps telling everyone to be afraid of him. Now that people are afraid enough to want Obama dead, McCain is trying to backtrack. But it's too late for that (especially with Palin urging them on in her own rouge campaigning.) I wish things had never gone this route. It's frightening, really. I hope that, if Obama wins, he keeps McCain around. He's a good, funny, WISE man. I love them both, but I only want to be led by one.

*siiigh* I feel good. This election may be stressful, but Obama is refreshing and makes me feel like I'm part of something again. I hope everyone gets that sense of purpose in this race. :3
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