Persona: Keys To The Kingdom

Topic Tags:

Thinking about starting a roleplay, but don't have the idea completely finished? Post it here, not in the main OOC forum!

Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:31 am

To The Mods: With all due respect of course, I am aware that this thread may appear similar to one I've already posted up here. I assure you whoever that this should be quiet different though, for starters thsi is not a 1x1 request, I plan to be the actual GM in this game and the last thread was not about a crossover. So apart from being centred (to an extent) around the Persona series, I do believe this thread does concern a differemnt idea and hopefully shouldn't be a duplicate. Thank you for understanding.

So basically this is an RPG based around the Persona series of video games, which are in turn a spin-off series from the Shin Megami Tensei line, though this will be pretty much concerned only with Persona for the most part, as far as the other Shin Megami Tensei are concerned though that is...

In particular I wanted this game to be based around the latter games in the series released on the Playstation2, i.e. Persona 3 and 4, with the characters having various Social Links to each other, said main characters being Japanese high-schoolers, a contrast between their normal daily school lives and the strange otherworld they find themselves venturing into with their Personae, and even things similar to Persona 4 with the characters knowing nothing of the supernatural until the beginning of the game and possibly even facing their Shadows (if I can find room for that in the game). That said I was also thinking of including Enemy Negotiations into the game somehow, maybe trying to reach out and reason with Shadows, converting them back into Persona maybe (perhaps this could also be the idea for a Social Link), though this may take too much effort if it would mean including an encounter system and multiple Personae per character into the game as well.

However, one thing from the start I wanted to do differently was that I didn't want to base this game on a single specific entry into the series, I have nothing against their concepts but I didn't want anything to do with the Dark Hour or the TV World again, Persona 3 and 4 have been and gone and while we should continue the spirit of these games I feel we shouldn't be rehashing them.
Obviously the first thing I wanted to do was create a unique 'otherworld' with a psychological background where the protagonist group would venture into and further the plot while not attending school or participating in S-Link activities. Now one of my ideas was a giant library-like place that had recorded all of Earth's history within, which could easily be part of the Collective Unconsciousness. There would also be seven powerful guardians in this world, each based off one of the Major Arcana in the Tarot from Temperance to Judgement, which would act for the most part as enemies of the protagonists with maybe one or two as allies but wouldn't be the ultimate threat.

Then something happened. I noticed that, apart from maybe that last bit, that idea sounded rather similar in fact to the Keys To The Kingdom book series by author Garth Nix. So I thought, instead of making perhaps an accidental watered-down copy of it, why not combine the two series together?

If you're unfamiliar with the Keys To The Kingdom series (which Persona fans could possibly be), that still shouldn't be too much of a problem as I don't plan to incorporate any of the plot or actual characters (though the Architect and the Piper may be mentioned once or twice) into this RPG, instead this will be set in an alternate universe though still keeping for the most part intact the otherworldly setting of the series, namely the House, which you can read all about here (likely spoilers though): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keys_to_the_Kingdom | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_(Keys_to_the_Kingdom)

Edit: I've decided that maybe it would be best to include a (for the most part) spoiler-free description of the House for the sake of newcomers who don't wish to be spoiled. I also got rid of a few things that wouldn't really apply in this new game without the old KttK cast, though not all as I'd like some people to see what the canon Trustees did with the House that way you can do things differently for the sake of variety and innovation (for good or ill).
Admitted copypasted from Wikipedia, so all credit goes to them and their editors:

'The House' is a domain that serves as the center of the universe in the Keys to the Kingdom series by Australian author Garth Nix. Anything in creation not in the House, such as earth (the solar system and indeed this universe), is part of the Secondary Realms. The House is divided into seven demesnes; each of which is ruled by a master named for a day of the week, the Trustees, or sometimes the Morrow Days. The demesnes are, in the order Arthur Penhaligon has claimed them: the Lower House, the Far Reaches, the Border Sea, the Great Maze, the Middle House, the Upper House and the Incomparable Gardens.

==Description==
The House's physical appearance in the Secondary Realms is described as a vast building featuring many different architectural styles, which often appear to be brought together at random. Its physical location differs; Arthur first sees it near his own residence, and his friend Leaf sees it above a hospital. Arthur, Leaf, and Leaf's ally Sylvie are the only mortals shown to see the House, each by a different means: Arthur can see it presumably because he is the Heir of the Architect; Sylvie requires special glasses given to Leaf by the House Sorcerer Dr. Scamandros; and Leaf appears able to see it without aid. It is her belief that she has inherited powers of extrasensory perception from her grandmother, whom she thinks to have been a witch, but this has not been confirmed. A possible alternative suggests that her immersion in the House (which occurred prior to her view of it from outside) enabled her to see it.

The House has seven demesnes: the Lower House, Far Reaches, Border Sea, Great Maze, Middle House, Upper House, and the Incomparable Gardens. The Gardens are the uppermost part of the House. The Lower Coal Cellar can be acted as the basement, and it is infinite.

==Purpose==
The divine figure known as the Architect created the House to record, without intervening on any behalf, all that happened in the Secondary Realms (a term used to describe the Universe at large). Most Denizens of the House believe that the House was created first. Having created House, Realms, and a Law that would prevent Denizens from intervening in the actions of mortal creatures, the Architect vanished and is not shown again. The Law is not binding however (although in Grim Tuesday, Arthur repels two agents from the House by invoking the Original Law, along with his latent power gained from the use of the First Key); it can be broken, as all of the Architect's Trustees have done at one time or another, making themselves the villains of the story. A Trustee can only enter the Secondary Realms on their "day", e.g. Mister Monday can only enter the Secondary Realms on a Monday. Furthermore, the Superior Denizens (Dawn, Noon, and Dusk) of each day can only enter the Secondary Realms on the hour of their name (a Noon, for example, can only enter during the hour from 12:00pm to 1:00pm).

House Time is constant, while time in the Secondary Realms is malleable; it is even able to flow backwards if a sufficient power, such as a Key to the Kingdom, is used upon it. Thus, a day may pass on Earth while half a year will pass in the House. This inconsistency in time allows Arthur to spend large amounts of time in the House whilst 'Local Earth Arthur time' remains still. This occurs because the Front Door (the main method of transit between the House and the Secondary Realms) takes note of important people's travel (e.g. Arthur's passage through the Door) and alters the time it allows passage back accordingly. The system is not infallible; while Leaf is in the House, time continues as normal in the Realms (Sneezer states that the Door did not consider Leaf noteworthy enough to account for). This temporal system is not dissimilar to that used in the Chronicles of Narnia, wherein lengthy adventures or even lifetimes can be spent in Narnia's world while only seconds pass in ours.

==Denizens==
Denizens are the original inhabitants of the House. Denizens are ranked within the House in an order of Precedence, but the current hierarchy of ranking is unknown. A Denizen's social status, political role, and magical power appear to be synonymous, in that magical power over an item is given or taken in the same way as if it were political power.

Denizens are similar to humans in all aspects but these:
* The blood of a Denizen is blue with two unexplained exceptions, while the bones are golden.
* Denizens are very resistant to change of any kind, and are often described as narrow-minded or stupid.
* Denizens are naturally good-looking. Additionally, if a Denizen’s House Precedence is high, he or she is better-looking and taller than Denizens of lower precedence.
* Denizens are nearly immortal:
**Denizens cannot die of old age, sickness, dehydration, or starvation while in the House, and will eventually heal from almost any injury, including decapitation. Denizens normally value sicknesses from the Secondary Realms. If the body is destroyed, they can slowly grow a new one, though they can be prevented from doing so. The ability to survive without food or drink while within the House, as well as not dying from old age, extends to Mortals and Piper's Children, although the resistance to injury does not.
**Denizens can only be killed by
***Fire, superheated steam, or other sources of extreme heat;
***Certain weapons (such as the Commissionaires’ Clubs and various weapons used by the Glorious Army of the Architect);
***A prolonged absence of their heads; without sorcerous intervention
**Nothing
***A festering bite or scratch from a Nithling, which dissolves them into Nothing;
***A Key;
***Drowning (although, this does not completely kill them immediately); and
***Falling from at least 15,000 feet.

==Demesnes==

===The Lower House===
The Lower House was the domain of Mister Monday. Due to Monday's affliction with sloth, its bureaucratic affairs became impossibly inefficient until Monday's loss of power, after which Dame Primus, as the Steward of Arthur's regime, has attempted to make the Lower House manageable. The remaining Morrow Days have attempted to impede this effort by swamping the Lower House with paperwork.

Doorstop Hill, and on it the Front Door of the House, is located in the Lower House. The Front Door of the House is a means by which one may leave the House and enter a Secondary Realm, and vice versa. To enter it from the Secondary Realms, one must be able to see the House. It is a pair of wooden doors surrounded by constantly shifting wrought-iron patterns whose movements are mesmerizing to human eyes. The Door is guarded by the Captain Keeper; in his absence, the Lieutenant Keeper of the Door, an ally of Arthur's, has guarded it ever since.

The Coal Cellar is a deep pit in the Lower House where Denizens that have been punished are sent to mine and shape coal for delivery to buyers within the House.

The Seven Dials is a set of seven grandfather clocks in a room accessible from Monday's Dayroom, the main office of the Lower House. Using them, one can travel to the current time in any given Secondary Realm. Thus far, only Sneezer, Monday's butler, has operated them.

===The Far Reaches===
The Far Reaches was the domain of Grim Tuesday. Originally, the Far Reaches was a Grand Cavern, and in the Cavern was a steady spring of Nothing. Tuesday used the Nothing to create items, such as Commissionaires and Not-Horses, which he sold to other demesnes of the House. His avarice, however, drove him to deepen and widen the spring in an effort to find more Nothing. In time, the spring became a vast Pit, which eventually becomes the whole of his demesne, sparing only his Treasure Pyramid and the train station where his personal train into the Pit docks. Grim Tuesday used indentured slaves from his own demesne, as well as ones from other Morrow Days sent to him as payment, to mine the useful amounts of Nothing. The Pit is extremely dangerous as it has been dug deep into the foundations of the House and is very close to breaching into the void of Nothing beyond.

===The Border Sea===
The Border Sea was an ocean previously under the rule of Drowned Wednesday. After Wednesday transformed into a leviathan and submerged into the sea, the sea overflowed nine-tenths of all land in the demesne including Port Wednesday. A new port was partially prepared on Wednesday's Lookout before this deluge. Any of the buildings that were submerged were transformed into ships, which thereafter sailed the Border Sea along with Wednesday’s original fleet of 49 ships. A unique aspect of the Border Sea is that anything that is lost accidentally, but not stolen, will appear in it.

The Border Sea extends into any body of water in the Secondary Realms, and therefore can be a means of travelling anywhere. The Line of Storms, a series of vicious lightning storms, guard the entrance into the sea; only an express invitation into the Sea will prevent the Line from killing people instantly.

Raised Rats live here and pilot their steamships. Pirates also live here, of whom the most formidable was a mortal pirate who somehow passed the Line of Storms into the Border Sea, Elishar Feverfew. Feverfew was a trained House sorcerer, and was trained in several dark arts. He used Nothing very indiscriminately and had been changed by this Nothing into something not quite human or Denizen.

===The Great Maze===
The Great Maze is a demesne that was ruled by Sir Thursday. It is a gigantic, chessboard-like arrangement of one thousand terraformed tiles, whereof each is one mile long and one mile wide. At each sunset the tiles change their locations, allowing any attackers to be split and easily attacked by the Glorious Army of the Architect; a means known as Tectonic Strategy. There are several fixed tiles, such as the Citadel, Fort Transformation, and a few others. The Citadel is the main Headquarters of the Maze, where Thursday himself makes his residence, and Fort Transformation is where new recruits spend a year of training before going on to serve the last 99 years of their tenure in one of the various factions in the Army.

Square 500/500, one of the four central tiles, is the “master square” of the Maze, in that no other square may move its location unless this one is unhindered. Therefore to fasten it in place (as in the novel Sir Thursday) is to render the Maze immobile.

At one end of the Maze is a mountain range. Within this range is a tunnel that connects to the Void of Nothing, by which controlled amounts of Nithlings are allowed into the Maze so that the Army may fight them. There are four gates within the tunnel; one gilded in gold, one in silver, one in bronze, and finally an Immaterial gate, the “Cleargate”. Each gate is operated by a single lever in the Border Fort above the tunnel. The gates are opened in various ways depending on the amount of Nithlings Sir Thursday wishes to be brought into the Maze.

===The Middle House===
The Middle House is a giant, thrice-terraced mountain consisting of three large plateaux previously under the control of Lady Friday. The plateaux are connected by the Extremely Grand Canal, a waterway whose water transports any writing to its desired destination. The workers of the Canal wear clothes made of out of paper covered with writing so that they float if they fall into the water. In Lady Friday, due to Friday's obsession with experiencing, it became thoroughly wintry.

Each of the plateaux, or “shelves”, serves a different function. The bottom, and the largest, called the Flat, is location of the Guild of Gilding and Illumination and of Letterer's Lark. The next shelf, the Middle of the Middle, houses the Guild of Illustration and Augmentation. Finally, the Top Shelf has the High Guild of Binding and Restoration. In between the Top Shelf and the crest is a crack in the mountain leading to the Eyrie of the Winged Servants of the Night.

===The Upper House===
The Upper House was ruled by Superior Saturday. It is in the Upper House where House Sorcerers are trained.

This demense is in perpetual rain, due to the fact that the Sixth Part of the Will was broken up into type and dispersed into the water. The Denizens working here have umbrellas to stop the water, but these are sometimes ineffective. Higher Denizens also collect water and let it drop in waterfalls on their inferiors. This enabled the Will to communicate with Arthur. The papers they work on stay dry despite the rain.

The ceiling of the Upper House is actually the floor of the Incomparable Gardens and is shrouded usually in clouds. Sunday constantly taunts Saturday by parting the clouds only for her, exciting her envy.

Saturday, for almost ten thousand years, has been building a tower with her private viewing chamber at the top while the other floors are slotted in below. The purpose of the tower is to reach and invade the Incomparable Gardens above and claim it for herself. Within the Upper House are four large Drasil trees located at the four corners of the Upper House that are constantly growing at a rate faster than Saturday can build her tower. As these trees grow, the Incomparable Gardens move further upwards. The tower is seventeen thousand feet high and the Denizens that work in the tower all have different coloured umbrellas which can be used to determine the floor upon which they are near. The basic building blocks of the tower are wrought iron cubes with a grille floor and no ceiling.

===The Incomparable Gardens===
Almost nothing is known about Lord Sunday’s demesne, the Incomparable Gardens. It is supposedly the most beautiful garden in the Universe, and is guarded by a variety of insectoid Nithlings resembling oversized worms and beetles. Dame Primus mentions that Denizens of this area of the House would be immediately noticeable in the Great Maze. The floor of the Incomparable Gardens is the roof of the Upper House and is constantly rising above the four Drasil trees which support it and grow to raise it. The branches of the trees attack anyone who comes near, and there are several beetle-like Nithlings guarding the trunks on the tree.

==Transportation & Communication within the House==

===The Front Door===
Controlled by the Captain and Lieutenant Keepers of the Door, the Front door is a huge three mile wide/tall dome. Every inch of the walls are filled with portals to parts of the house, for example the Upper House. Some protude into the Secondary Realms and the Void. In Lord Sunday, Leaf becomes Lieutenant Keeper, and senses the Void exploding through many of the entrances. She is there when the Great Maze collapses onto itself and the Realms are infected.
The entrance to the Front Door takes the form of a huge door a hundred metres high and fifty metres wide. From the start of Mister Monday, trouble occurs inside the Door. Superior Saturday, self proclaimed superior sorceror, sends her Dusk on many occasions, mostly through the Front Door. She sent him to kill Suzy and destroy the Border Dam in the Far Reaches.
Access to the Front Door is restricted, allowed only where the Door flows, like a huge ocean. Looking too much at the Door causes blindness and intense madness, such things may have happened to the Piper and some nithlings.
One of the side portals is Monday's Postern, which catapults the receiver straight into the Door. In Grim Tuesday, the Lieutenant Keeper sends Arthur to the Far Reaches to seize Grim Tuesday and gain sovereignty over the Far Reaches. He also sends Leaf to the Great Maze, as well as Suzy.

===Wings===
Wings are an everyday means of short-distance travel within the demesnes of the House. When used, they most often take on an angelic quality (i.e. white and feathered), but can have other appearances. Monday's Noon's wings are described as "white and lustrous" but stained with dried blood, Monday's Dusk's wings are black and "as glossy and dark as a raven's", and Pravuil uses wings that are yellow.

There are also different types of wings. Cheaper, paper-made wings are disposable, and are made for temporary use. They are unidirectional (up or down) and the user can only partially control them by leaning in the desired direction. Higher-quality wings can be taken on and off at will and are controlled by telepathy. Some of the higher-quality wings have special properties, such as the ability to shed light or generate invisibility in the Secondary Realms. Wings are banned in some areas of the House because of various air-borne hazards. In the Pit in the Far Reaches they attract Nothing from the clouds and this Nothing often forms flying Nithlings. Monday's Dayroom has a protective system against intrusion by fliers, in that superheated steam is shot at anyone who tries to fly over head. In the Upper House, Drasil branches invariably destroy any users of wings who fly above a certain height, however Saturday is able to circumvent this by using sorcery to repel the boughs. In the Great Maze, wings attract lightning (which is somehow related to the tile movements).

===Postage Service===
The House has an internal postage service, but this appears to be notoriously poor. Letters take weeks, or sometimes years, to reach their destination; most do not reach at all. This is due mainly to the disorder in the Lower House and has apparently grown worse prior to Mister Monday's downfall, having all the letters and newspapers cut off completely in some of the House, according to Piper's Child Fred Initial Numbers Gold. It is revealed in the fourth book that if a Denizen does not accept the military draft offered him, the Denizen will be turned into a brown-paper-wrapped parcel and transported through the postage system to the Great Maze.

===Elevators===
Elevators are currently the easiest way to travel between the demesnes of the House, save the Fifth Key, which lets the user go to any reflective surface in existence if its user has been there by another means. As the elevators fall under the authority of Superior Saturday, they are banned from the realms controlled by Arthur as of Lady Friday. The size of an elevator can vary greatly; it can be the size of a telephone booth or of a football field. When the elevator is in motion, its path is marked by a beam of light. In the Border Sea, elevators can only travel to Port Wednesday, as the rest of the realm is submerged. The elevators can be controlled by either the elevator's operator, Superior Saturday, or (probably) Lord Sunday.

===Weirdways===
Weirdways are pathways that exploit the veins of Nothing within the House. One is able to go through the Nothing via a dark corridor with soft and jellylike walls, floor and ceiling. Weirdway entries are often disguised as innocuous items within a room, such as a painting or coin on the floor or a clock , and they cannot be moved. According to Suzy Turquoise Blue, only the blood of one of the Morrow Days can close a weirdway.

===Transfer Plates===
Large discs that work as a sort of teleportation throughout existence. Transfer plates are usually electrum or (more rarely) fine china. Touching a transfer plate, intentionally or not, will automatically transfer a being to the prescribed destination of the transfer plate. The plates can be controlled by Superior Saturday.

===The Improbable Stair===
The Improbable Stair is a stairway that can traverse all of creation. It was the Architect's personal transport by which she visited all of her work. To enter the Stair, one must first have an item of power, such as a Key or the Piper’s Pipes. The traveler must then see a resemblance to a stair in any object, such as a bent blade of grass or jagged crack in a surface, and imagine the presence of a true stairway. There are several landings on the Stair, of which all open seemingly at random onto a place and time. Having reached a landing, the traveler must return to the Stair by the mentioned process. The entire use of the Stair is described as risky and dangerous, and these risks increase when the destination is near Nothing. Some Denizens cannot travel on the Stair (the reason for this is unknown); but Piper's Children are always accepted.

===Telephones===
Telephones are a means of communication within the House, and also to the Secondary Realms. The ring is inaudible to mortals, save Arthur and Leaf. House telephones resemble an early form of terrestrial telephone, and seem to work in the same fashion, in that they require an operator. During Lady Friday, Superior Saturday attempts to prevent Arthur from using them; but as they fall under the authority of the Lower House, and their wiring under the authority of the Far Reaches, she has limited success. The telephone operators are especially willing to connect Arthur, as he is the only one to give them the courtesy of saying "please".

===The Fifth Key===
Lady Friday's Mirror, the Fifth Key to the Kingdom, allows the user to summon a portal to any part of the House or the Secondary realms coming out through a reflective surface, most commonly a pool of water or a mirror on the wall. The places the mirror can access is limited to locations that Lady Friday has visited in person.

===The Lieutenant Keeper's Sword===
Albeit restricted to the Front Door, the Sword pulls the holder to wherever they need to go. For example, Leaf needed to check up on the Secondary Realms and was pulled as full force through the door.


Remember that unlike Arthur Penhaligon though I don't plan for our central protagonists to be able to spend an entire book's length within the House at a time, and would like to introduce something that boots them back out into the normal world so we can then focus on Social Links.

Along with the Persona-using main characters, the game will also be accepting positions for an all-new group of Trustees for the House, and maybe their Dawns, Noons and Dusks if we have time and don't decide to just make them NPCs (although this could all be depending on the ideas of the Trustee player). Unlike the original book series, the Trustees/Morrow Days overall will not be the main villains, that position will likely go to only a single one of them or a whole other enemy entirely (Nyarlathotep for instance). However, the Trustess will certainly not be on immediate friendly terms with the protagonist group, that would make things too easy.
Again unlike the original book, the Trustees will not be associated with one of the Seven Deadly Sins, instead they'll be based on one of the Major Arcana between Temperance and Judgement as mentioned above (which is ironic in a way, as Denizens by default won't be able to manifest a Persona). However they'll still be divided into the Days of the Week.

Now to what the plot of this crossover game should be. At first I was wondering if we should still include the Shadows along with the Nithlings in some way, or just have the Shadows as enemies replaced by the Nithlings altogether like what happened with the Demons. If the Shadows however will still be around (with the Nithlings maybe as a rare super extra encounter), I was thinking that a possible plot would be that a mysterious 'merchant' type figure is going around the House offering large supplies of what he says is Nothing. But what the Denizens don't know is this is actually Shadow substance, which looks close enough to the substance Nothing to pass it off on the Denizens (who would have heard of Shadows though but would've never encountered them). Soon enough the Shadows start forming and begin to attack the House, attempting to alter its records of the Secondary Realms by changing them and warping them into a more 'ideal' history humanity would want, not realising they're destroying the foundations of reality in the process.
I don't know how our human main characters should get involved or receive their Persona, but I definitely figure that history and memories seeming to go awry should be a definite clue that leads them to the House if we use the above plot. Probably requesting ideas though.

Regarding the Persona series again, while unlike with Keys To The Kingdom this will definitely stay within continuity and canon characters, if they can fit without being intrusive, will be allowed, though they'll be a bit older, I still don't want this to be too heavily reliant on contiuity that it stops the game from doing its own thing (well, own thing-ish). References to past Persona games may be occasionally made though, for example I'd say what happened at the end of Persona 2 Innocent Sin definitely caused a lot of disorganisation within the House.

Wrapping this up, I should say that while I've always been interested in the world of the House and have read quite a few things about the series online, I only ever got up to halfway through Grim Tuesday, and that was some time ago, so it's possible I may have said a lot of things here that may sound completely inaccurate in the context of the series, but I still want to give this idea a try. One last thing though is please don't say something simple like "I'm interested", I thank you for the response but I do need some more analytical feedback on this idea, even if you aren't familiar with Keys To The Kingdom or Persona.
Thank you in advance.

Edit: Also, not sure what it'd have to do with the House, what does everyone think of using this as a theme for this RPG (most likely an ending one)? It may not sound much like SMT music, but I think the message and tone of the song could follow up nicely on Kimi no Kioku and Never More.
Last edited by RomanesqueMarionette on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You are walking down the street minding your own business when:
"Whoooo. I am a scary man in a mask and I have just made you kill your own Grandfather at some point in the future so you will have never existed... whooo"
"Er, why?"
"Because it's so amazingly paradoxical... whooo"
"Right"
"Ah yes, but how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"
- DIY Sheep on Faction Paradox
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years



Bumping this thread to say that I've edited the original post around a bit, though not in any major way, for the most part it's just a few typo corrections and maybe one or two extra suggestions, however I do think a few things about the game should be clearer now.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Bumping again, though by now it just seems to me that people have their interests elsewhere.

To make something clear, I really did want to make this game accessible to people that have never heard of Keys To The Kingdom, and even those who have the same relation with Persona.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: To The Limits Of Your Creation ( )

Postby Engimest on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:10 pm

I like this idea, not only will it attract lots of fans of either series, but I see it as an opportunity to see what we, roleplayers and GM, could come up with. As an example there could be bosses or mini-bosses in the "otherworld" that were created because of what the Shadows did to alter history, sort of like, say, what if George Washington lost to the British, the angry and negatives thoughts created from such a lose would possible create a monster based solely on the American Revolutionary war and possibly events that took place after, of course it doesn't have to happen but I think the idea is worth considering. Only other thing I could suggest/question is whether the protagonist group, Persona or otherwise, would remember what actually happened and notice what has changed or not? All in all I do like the idea, and if I had the time I would probably come join and work together with you if you want some more ideas or suggestions or opinions.
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: To The Limits Of Your Creation ( )

Postby Nyxeth on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:50 pm

This is possibly one of the best crossovers, of all time, ever.

Colour me interested.
Ex-Moderator Team Leader, Formerly Known As Alvaron

Image
User avatar
Nyxeth
Member for 4 years


Alright, thank you for your responses.

@Engimest: While I actually do like the idea of Boss Shadows being formed from the new historical revisions caused, I am a bit concerned that the game might not have any room left for the idea, seeing as we already have things like the Shadows in general, personal Boss Shadows for each Persona-using main character except maybe the first ones, Nithlings, Superior Denizens and Trustees. Not rejecting the idea altogether, just wondering if the RPG would have the space for it.
To answer your question though, it's most likely that anyone who has come into contact with the House, including the protagonists, would remember history as it was previously was and eventually notice what's different.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: To The Limits Of Your Creation ( )

Postby Engimest on Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:30 am

Well, I don't wish to argue with you on it Mari, I mean you are the GM, and I do understand how you feel about balancing it out. However, if I may, I do feel that although Personal Boss Shadows do play an important role in the Persona games, it's a tad bit cliche', and since this idea is more about not just the events affecting people in the Persona universe, but others as well, that having Boss shadows reflect the darker side of one human rather than multiple humans as a whole just might be a bit more hindering. These are my thoughts on the subject matter, I mean no bashing, and it is up to you what to do with these ideas, but give it some thought?
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:54 am

^Personal Boss Shadows have only ever really been used in the fourth game (and technically the second, though only near the very end), so unless you're referring to other play-by-post games which I haven't had the chance to go look at, I don't really see what makes them so 'cliche'.

That said though, I suppose I did say I didn't want this game to be too closely based on a single entry in the Persona series, and I will also admit that even in Persona 4 'You're not me!' quickly became repetitive. I'll also agree that facing your Personal Shadow may have suited that game but alone doesn't really seem to suit this one, however I do still want personal conflict within each main character to play an important role, not assuming anything of you though.

Actually in retrospect I do think having Shadow Bosses being based on the distortion of history could work and fit in, though maybe not as a typical Boss encounter. Seeing as fighting the Shadows naturally should prevent any changes to the past from appearing in the first place, and then they'll still need time to manifest as the newly-made temporal alteration slowly sinks in, I was thinking that instead they would only appear as an abnormal (and likely super-hard) encounter that only shows up should the players manage to fail a really important storyline mission or spend too much time in the 'real world' and not enough time in the House fighting Shadows. True, that does mean we wouldn't be able to see them as often and thus may not be able to do a lot with them, though that'd make them all the more shocking and dangerous when they do appear. Of course you wouldn't be allowed to spend too long in the House either otherwise you'd just overwork yourself and become easier prey for Shadows, Nithlings or any Trustee that doesn't happen to like you.

On the subject of Trustees, I have come up with a sort of reason why, despite them also wanting to get rid of the Shadows, they should oppose you rather than help you (although keep in mind this should not apply to all Trustee characters, as that would make them too similar of a group overall, and that all Trustees don't have to be enemies, just not immediate or ever-present allies): I was thinking that, with them likely being familiar with Philemon's basic function if only regrettably, maybe they see him sending the Persona-users into the House to fight off the Shadows (or Nithling look-a-likes as they may initially understand them) as somewhat of an insult and mockery of their skills and capability at running their demesnes, leading them to try and depose of you to 'prove' Philemion wrong (even if Philemon doesn't mean to ridicule them), intensifying once they find out of the true connection between Personae and Shadows. Certain Trustees may even take this to extremes and see Persona as an ability humans shouldn't possess, frightened of its powers that are unknown to them.

Well, those are just my thoughts anyway, guess it all depends on how it folds out.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: To The Limits Of Your Creation ( )

Postby Engimest on Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:14 am

I do apologize if I wasn't being clear about what I meant by cliche', I admit I should've putten more thought into it, espically since I've only really known about Persona 4 and some SMT games, you see I was refereing to times when one has to fight their perfect counterpart, someone who in certain ways is like you, not just in looks but in skill as well, and at times their could be the perfect counter parts that aren't similar to you at all, take for example.....mmmmm....well I can't really think of a good example at the moment but I'd have to say probably Ichigo and Grimmjow from Bleach could be one of those cases.

To give my thoughts upon the thrid paragraph I do think that's a good idea, sure it would make appear less depending, however, and this is just me guessing because I don't know much about the Keys to the Kingdom series, but what if the first boss they encounter was a Temporal Shadow because the first time they noticed something was wrong with history was after a major alteration was made. Now as I said I don't know much about the Keys to the Kingdom series because you're the first person to mention them, so I could be wrong about this theory, but it could set in to our heroes what would happen if you don't attempt to fix the problem or something like that.

And as for the Trustees, I do see where you're coming from what that idea and agree with you on it, however, I am curious to know if Trustees would attempt to find the source of the Persona's or attempt to cut off the bonds between Persona and user? (again, this is because I don't know about Key to the Kindgom)

Until next time Mari, I will see your reply tommorow, and I bid you good night
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:28 am

@Engimest: Alright, I can definitely see your point, though technically in Persona 4 the other characters did all the actual fighting against the Shadows while the actual confrontation between someone and their own Shadow was more emotional and psychological. Also, as they're a person's psyche become uncontrollable, Shadows are actually more powerful than their human counterpart as they have access to special physical and magical skills they don't.

Fighting a Temporal Shadow early in the game but having them remain as only a possible danger from then on until you really screw up could actually work to set the scene. Actually it wouldn't impact the Keys To The Kingdom series at all, literally distorting history was never a major theme among them.

I'd say that last one would depend on whoever's applying for a Trustee character. Thing about the Trustees/Morrow Days is quite often they never really work as a group, unless someone would like to do things differently.

I think I'll wait for about two to three more people before creating this game wityh the RoleplayTab, if possible I think I may like someone who's read the KttK book series to act as a sort of creative consultant for what could or couldn't be done or what may have been done.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby Nyxeth on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:06 am

I've read the KttK series through to the Friday book, having read this thread I'm actually meaning to order the last ones if they have been written. So I'd be willing to lend a hand with that side of things.

Ninja edit: Just ordered the last two books. :O
User avatar
Nyxeth
Member for 4 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:01 pm

^Er, okay then, personally I might prefer someone who's read the whole series that way they could catch everything and also that I wouldn't possibly spoil anything for them, but that far should be fine enough for the most part.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:21 pm

Edit: Incorporated back into my first post.
Last edited by RomanesqueMarionette on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby Engimest on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:17 am

I'm sure, given some time, we might gather enough attention to get more people to join......and I will read that entire post later because I am partly busy
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:33 am

^In that case I would've rathered you had waited until you eventually have finished reading it to make your post, as otherwise that doesn't really help in any way (well besides bumping I guess).
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby Engimest on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:55 am

Sorry Mari, I would love to read it right now, but it's getting a bit late over here so I'll check it out tommorow, but, I did just think of something that we could talk about that deals with the roleplay, will we have access to the Velvet Room, like say to create new Persona or will we be sticking entirely with just one Persona for the Persona user characters?
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:46 am

...Not really sure about that to be honest. Giving characters access to multiple Persona (aside from emotional 'evolution' like in 3 and 4) like in 1 and 2 may prove too much work comng up with all the different Personae possible, especially for a roleplay designed to be systemless, but it does remove a bit of potential variety. I did plan from an early stage that it would be one Persona per character (not counting evolution of course) which would really exclude the need for the Velvet Room which in turn could possibly make this not really feel like a Persona game, but if I did try to include the Velvet Room even with this one-Persona-per-character mentality it may comes across as gratuitous and unnecessary.
I also guess Shadow Communication would hold more benefits if we did have multiple Persona allowed, plus despite the whole 'one-Persona' thing I did plan for Philemon to be the one who gave the Personae and House access in the first place (we could even call Igor 'Philemon's Dusk' as a bit of a joke) but maybe it would be better if I came with up something different (Even though Philemon and Nyarlathotep would still be in the game, plus the House can't grant Personae).
Ultimately, right now I'm still deciding things, feedback appreciated though, as practically always.

Unrelated (mostly) to the above, but I just remembered something. With the use of Wings in the House, we could potentially have aerial Persona combat!
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby Engimest on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:58 am

We could limit how many extra Persona's, like say two at a time or to those within you Tarot or both? It'll have to be worked on later what is what, also I like the idea of aerial Persona combat, it's an interesting twist and I would like to work on that sometime later as well
User avatar
Engimest
Member for 2 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby Nyxeth on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:02 am

Just as a heads up, the rest of the KttK books arrived last night so I'll be going through them over tonight for reference.
User avatar
Nyxeth
Member for 4 years


Re: Persona: Keys To The Kingdom ( )

Postby RomanesqueMarionette on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:02 pm

Apparently Superior Saturday has been called the shortest in the series, so hopefully that shouldn't take too long. Not meaning to rush you of course.
Bit of trivia, but apparently Garth Nix himself has a cameo on one version of the covers, I think Wikipedia said it was the American.

Also, since I don't believe I've mentioned it so far, in-game we'll be using card-crushing to summon our Personae like in Persona 4 (and also like in 1 and 2 technically, though it was too hard to see because of the graphics), seeing as our protagionist group will not be part of any official organisation like in Persona 3.
User avatar
RomanesqueMarionette
Member for 2 years


Next

Post a reply

RolePlayGateway is a site built by a couple roleplayers who wanted to give a little something back to the roleplay community. The site has no intention of earning any profit, and is paid for out of their own pockets.

If you appreciate what they do, feel free to donate your spare change to help feed them on the weekends. After selecting the amount you want to donate from the menu, you can continue by clicking on PayPal logo.

 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests