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Walter Barrecks wrote:I think this topic is funny. I give props to Defect for trying to prove Hitler wasn't a evil bastard, that takes some balls.

But, if we really want to get into it, you're making no sense. Examples:

Also he didn't have fear of Jewish people a real racist goal, they were patty's and he did 'manipulate' the German people, they all hated Jews too they did after all live the good life whilst the German populace starved to death, if someone ate a t-bone steak and ignored me starving I'd wanna' kill them too.

*Why does fear matter?

*Although not much was needed, you do have to admit he manipulated his people, I don't think they all wanted to kill Jews right off the bat.

*How do you know every Jewish person lived the good life? Although their faith says they are the chosen people, nowhere does it state they all have a magic money pot bursting with cash.

*Hitler was Christian right? You are defending him? Where does it say it's okay to kill?

Haha yeah, I wrote that at like midnight I read over it and you're completely right it doesn't make sense.

I'll try and decipher it but, let me get my decoder ring... okay... here goes.
Why does fear matter?
That was in response to what the other dude was saying.
Although not much was needed, you do have to admit he manipulated his people, I don't think they all wanted to kill Jews right off the bat.
I don't know, I've been poor I wanted to kill rich people who lorded there wealth over me, and you're right not everyone wanted Jews dead, nor many, but no-one had objection, manipulation is an ugly word he more guided
How do you know every Jewish person lived the good life? Although their faith says they are the chosen people, nowhere does it state they all have a magic money pot bursting with cash.
Jewish people are the ones who signed a surrender on behalf of the German people, some Jewish Politician, as such, the Jewish people who lived in the country with dual citizenship were not effected by the sudden hit to the populace that demanded repayment so they made up most of the wealthy class of Germany.
Hitler was Christian right? You are defending him? Where does it say it's okay to kill?
Nowhere of course silly, the new testament say you aren't allowed to kill anyone. Forgive and let live. But when has that stopped anyone? If you look at any war the English have gone to, God's apparently been on there side and with them the whole time. Things like what a religion is really about doesn't get in the way of whether you can be in that religion.

Walter Barrecks wrote:

And you mean I didn't represent the whole truth like what gets fed to you all the time? Like I said I was doing the exact opposite of the mass media, focusing wholly on the positives and not focusing on and dismissing the negatives.

*If you were focusing on just the positives, why are you so quick to point out the negatives on the opposite side of the argument? Such as America being terrible.. Stated here:

God bless America and the Allies... a beckon of shining hope in a age of Tyranny by an evil dictator Hitler. -snicker-

I hate to bring out this factoid*, but "America spends billions on humanitarian efforts" is no justification that it's forefathers raped, pillaged, and destroyed Native-American culture which still has repercussions on it's people today, leaving them stuck in a cycle of alcoholic tendencious and domestic abuse.

Oh that was also covered earlier, my word above is the OPPOSITE to what you normally see, meaning, the allies instantly become the devil, and Hitler the good guy. The piece is a work of tongue in cheek to typical upbring, I thought as RPing is a sport for the more intellectual that maybe the humour could be seen, for the most part that was lost sadly.

Selothi wrote:DbD (yes, it' way quicker than your real pseudonym), what proves to you that Jews "live the better life" for fuck sake ?! Have you not realized that during the whole of Christian history, all they have tried to do is kill as many Jewish "unbelievers" as they could. So, from where came your idea that Jews are all exceedingly rich and therefore were hated for it. Yeah, it's no wonder they're all so rich, that's why half of them flee their damn country to come to damn ghetto's and the lik (note: not a racist comment in any way). And, even if they did lead a nicer life than the rest of the krauts (which they all didn't), does that excuse the germans from slaughtering them, without any distinction, man, woman, child, rich, poor, bliever, non-believer ? NO, IT DOESN'T !

It is stated in every holy book (except the Satanic Bible mayhap) that you MUST NOT KILL ! What did Hitler do ? He ordered the slaughter of millions of people, Jews, blacks, homosexuals, gispies, people from the Balkans: everybody else that didn't fit in to his so called idea of an "Arian Race". The whole concept of a race is BS anyway. We all share the same genetic programming, it's just what's in the chromosomes that changes our outwards appearance, that's all ! That does not excuse in any way a fucked up maniac like Hitler to slaughter all the people he didn't like, none of which he even knew personnaly, it's just because they were or partained to whole group of people that HE wanted dead !

And yes, Stalin wasn't much better, I've already said that, and number-wise, he did kill less people. That's all, I'm not condoning his actions in any way, he's just as much a bastard as Hitler is, though slightly less, that' all !

RANT OVER ... ...

Okay, I've toyed you a long for long enough Selly-fuffy, you don't realise that I don't care about Hitler, nor do I believe anything I've said, I got bored and thought I'd make a humour topic, but you gotta' stop including so many dam errors in your work.
-History states Jews (overall) lived better in Germany. History books. Uses them.
-Back up that's all Christians have tried to do? For the most part Jewish people are forgotten to the Christian religion, manly Christianity has had a beef against anything Pagan and Muslim which according to Christianity if the same thing.
-Don't get so emotional. It doesn't help your arguing skills.
-It doesn't excuse but it gives cause and reason to, which is good enough for almost anything in this world.
-Arian? Your argument is helped if you spell it correctly, it makes it seem like you have more of a clue of what you are arguing about.
-And also go do some research on the Aryan race, it a lot deeper than you think and it wasn't blonde hair blue eyes either, that was just German propaganda tapes that showed always these really ideal Germanic appearance to promote everything. The Aryan race was about keeping Germanic blood, nothing else. Research. Do it.

Ghost_x1000 wrote: [quote=Defect by Design"]He [Stalin] killed farmers who did nothing to him, Hitler killed Jews who had.

Now, maybe I'm a little bit lost. What did the Jews do to Hitler? The only thing I think you've said so far about it is that they were richer than the Germans. How does that justify killing them?[/quote]
Silly muppet, nothing justify killing people, only gives you an empathetic heart towards why they did it.

Ghost_x1000 wrote:You're from Australia, right? Let's take your argument and run with it, shall we? Say that New Zealand get this crazy idea to go to war with Asia. They gather up their army and throw their whole economy behind it, and then get utterly decimated. Now everyone in New Zealand is poor. Now living right next to them is the great big country of Australia. It's not a third world country by any stretch of the imagination. Are you saying that New Zealanders have the right to kill Austrailians, because, "hey, they have the money while we're starving"?

Yes. Of course it does! I mean I hate Austrailians too! But it good that they aren't going to take it out on us Australians.

Ghost_x1000 wrote:If I've missed the point and you've pointed out something else that's completely terrible that the Jews did to Hitler, please share it with me, because I must have missed it. I really would like to see the reason why any person, even you, can be so casual about a plan to kill a whole race. No offense, but it's that same as racism when you are casual about the planned genocide of a certain race. What, you say you weren't being casual?

Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Yeah you're ttlyrite! They are the exact same thing, being casual about an issue that can't be changed and having an unfounded hatred for people of a specific race are exactly the same thing!! God! I've been blinded all these years thinking there the same thing, I'm sorry world! I've denied my calling, Thank you sir, you have cleared my mind once and for all, you're right and starting tomorrow I'm going to go join the local Neo-Nazi it obviously my true calling in life seeming my reversal of popular held belief in a humours way is the exact same thing as unbased bias and unfounded hatred for someone for physical differences.

Ghost_x1000 wrote:Let's skip over the allied forces part. Deaths happen in war, I see you're point on that. Now, to the normal person, mistreating is maybe tripping someone every time they go down the hall. Or maybe it's setting up separate grocery lines and lunch counters for them to use. For example: the Americans mistreated the blacks even after they were emancipated. Now, to what mistreating is not: Mistreating is not PLANNING TO KILL EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM!

You left out the rape and murder of many African-Americans for simple being black.

You also, not just you, but everyone seem to not see the real purpose of this topic, it was funny before, but now, now I bored with this topic the ban I received for asking for sorry from a mod took me away for a while and in that time my love for this topic has grown cold sorry if my answer a little too uninterested I'm not interested in looking up factual reality and loop-holes in History books to make Hitler look like a good guy anymore.

Ghost_x1000 wrote:Anyway, I eagerly await your answer, to see what kind of BS you pull out of your hat this time.

Sorry mate, I didn't exactly go to stimulate your e-penis to make it bigger like you wanted, but word of the wise, don't continue arguing like you do, both you and Selluffy both don't do a favour for yourself with your style of debating.

Hey, please use my correct username, not some misguided attempt at making humour by distorting a pseudonym. Fine, "Aryan" not "Arian", I live in France, study at a french school therefore and the frenchies write it "arian", or "arienne" depending on if its masculin or feminin form, so yeah, screw that, inter-linguistical typos happen, deal with it. I still don't understand how you can affirm that jews led a better life in Germany: you can't state that a class of people live better than the rest by simply generalizing. And besides, I doubt your argument is even true: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Judaism#Inter-relationship ? That's about my point that Christians have punished Jews from word go, mind you, not the stuff stated above, I just found this page browsing through Wikipedia

Right, next off. Next time, I'll remain completely emotionally detached, stay completely objective, act like a golem with a brain basically, nah, screw that, I'll show myself to be human. Sorry ...

So, you're also saying that in order to feel better, Hitler had the jewish "race" slaughtered, and that that reason was good enough. It gave cause to do it, so that's alright ? Bloody hell man, ethics ...

And trust me, I know that the ArYan plan was more than just extermination, that was just the Shoah, but still, it was a main part of it. Hitler wanted to purge the country of other ethnic "minorities" in order to reunite the germans, not the other way around, I believe. The Aryan race in itself yes, just get all germanic blood in once group, but to do so, he employed a little thing called genocide, just to make things a lil' faster ... No probs there, no, none.

Defect by Design, do you even read what you post?
[quote=Defect by Design"]Silly muppet, nothing justify killing people, only gives you an empathetic heart towards why they did it.
[quote=Ghost_x1000]You're from Australia, right? Let's take your argument and run with it, shall we? Say that New Zealand get this crazy idea to go to war with Asia. They gather up their army and throw their whole economy behind it, and then get utterly decimated. Now everyone in New Zealand is poor. Now living right next to them is the great big country of Australia. It's not a third world country by any stretch of the imagination. Are you saying that New Zealanders have the right to kill Austrailians, because, "hey, they have the money while we're starving"?[/quote]
Yes. Of course it does![/quote]
Well, it seems to me that, despite you growing "cold" on this thread, you still seem determined to pretend like you're the only one who has a brain around here. Yet you continue to make a fool of yourself. You really can't expect people to listen to you telling them not to make mistakes when you've made quite a few yourself this argument. I mean, if you are going to contradict yourself, don't do it in the exact same post. And please, whatever you do, don't embarrass yourself by trying to insult us. You're insults are, at best, rather juvenile, and mostly inapproprate. A word to the "wise" (but it seems more like a "wise guy" to me), sexual innuendo has its own place, and that's not here. Oh, and when you start with that whole Racism thing, realize that I really wasn't being as serious about this as you. If you want what I really should have said, here it is: "Anybody that can pass the Holocaust off as 'mistreatment' seems to pretty racist, so I can see why you come off as one. Well, that and your 'Jew' remarks". Yeah, so I wrote it wrong. As seems to be the way you do things, I'm going to blame extenuating circumstances. I blame the fact that I have had seven hours of sleep in the last three days. As for the quip about my "debate skills"... well, I wouldn't come out and say that I like laughing at your BS during an actual debate. I'd wait until we were backstage, say I was sorry that you were on the wrong side of the debate, then come out and tell you that the crap you spilled during the debate was downright hilarious. But hey... I'm not here to participate in a debate. If I wanted debate, I'd go enter a competition, to try to win some money. I, like you, am just here to see what kinds of funny things people will post.

If you want my advice, I'd tell you to chill. You seem to have a well thought-out grasp on the ideas you put out. You just need to pick better subject matter, and try to lay off the jokes. Oh, and for goodness sake, don't take everything so personal. Try to realize that all the contradictions you're getting are not directed at you, but rather at the fact that you took one of the most evil men in the world and tried to portray him as if he was a hero, and that everything bad he did wasn't his fault.

Oh, and one last thing? If you don't care a wit about Hitler or what you're saying, then why on earth do you continue to, repeatedly, defend the position that in your words, you "don't care about... nor do I believe anything I've said"?

I stand by Ryand's arguments all the way. I have to object with you Zhelir that people should not be allowed to have opinions which are racist, xenophobic, and downright inhumane. The guy's saying that Hitler only did good things in his life, that he was the unlucky victim and should not be blamed for hi own actions. That's kinda getting a little bit far, very actually. The man was a monster, end of story, I'm not saying the only monster in history, but definitely not the least. So, mister "Defect by Design", go and put some black marker pen on your upper lip and shut up, racism and all that crap is against the law I will remind you, so, hmm ...

Posted by Selothi.

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

Selothi's signature. I find your argument ironic with the signature you have.

Everyone is an unlucky victim and in time comes to play the monster. Everyone. Hiters' was, on a larger scale, of course. But when you neglect the good he did and only look at his bad judgments, then you're being biased. I acknowledge that he did both horrible and good deeds during his life, but I'm not sticking to one side.

Hitler was but a man. Like man, he had his faults.

Right, next off. Next time, I'll remain completely emotionally detached, stay completely objective, act like a golem with a brain basically, nah, screw that, I'll show myself to be human. Sorry ...

You mean like Hitler, right? Or am I totally off course and on another subject?

So, you're also saying that in order to feel better, Hitler had the jewish "race" slaughtered, and that that reason was good enough. It gave cause to do it, so that's alright ? Bloody hell man, ethics ...

You mean like how we're at war with Iraq? Or is this too off subject and totally wrong?

he employed a little thing called genocide, just to make things a lil' faster ... No probs there, no, none.

Refer to the statement above this quote.

Note: I like the Flame Wars section.
Note to Note: I still have a headache. =(
Note to Note to Note: o_o

First off, for my sig, you must have played Assassin's Creed to understand it. The meaning is deeper than the words that are there, plus, I love how it sounds ...

Now, yes, Hitler DID bring Germany back from a falling economy into a succesful country, if they were fighting a war that is. I've never contradicted that, I fully ackowledge that he did SOME good. However, DbD focused mainly on the good stuff in his post, why should I too ? I'm focusing on the negatives.

As for the war in Iraq, I'm against it, first because wars are a waste of human lives, both civilian and military, and secondly because I see no logical reason to it. yes, I see some reasons to it, I see no proper, logical, humane reason behind it. Know what I mean ?

Anything else, Matthias ? =)

Anything else, Matthias ? =)

Nope! Guess it's my turn to give the hug! -Proceeds to glomp Selothi!-

*Happily gets glomped* (whatever that might mean, I'm sure its cute and friendly though ...)

Well this was different. Now I think I'll take some tips from it and go to defend Tamerlane and his towers of skulls... I can see it now... 'But those towers served as navigational points when Tamerlane didn't have any native guides!'

I don't see why people have to make such a big deal about the whole Hitler thing. He was a man with a dream (Pun intended), and he had his own beliefs. We can't respect that, now can we? I don't see why Americans have to shun everything away if they don't believe in it. That's why America is the stupidest country in the world, no doubt. I can't say he was doing the right thing, but in his opinion, he was.

Hitler may have been 'evil', but in the German's mind, he was doing the right thing. Politically incorrect, whether be related to the topic or not, is the stupidest thing in the world. WHO FREAKING CARES ABOUT IF WE SAY 'CHRISTMAS', "HANNUKAH', OR 'HOLIDAYS'? It's simply a crazy, stupid thing politicians felt would get them more votes for being idiotic people who wish the whole world was full of atheists.

It's obvious that history has portrayed as a monstrosity, which I believe he is personally. But he has done great things. Notice, great can be interpreted both ways. For me, I'll interpret the word "Great" as meaning Bad"" or something of the matter. Bad. I like that, fits him well.

What he did: Genocide, improving his country, sending the world into one giant cluster-f*ck, sending numerous nations into a giant cluster-f*ck, sending his nation into poverty, only to have it sit and be contested by the two greatest super-powers for nearly eight decades before it was allowed it's true freedom. He's a terrible person, he's a sick, twisted, demonic cracker-jack that should never had been put in power. But there's two sides to every story, yes, he did good things. Yes, he gave us TEH JET ENGINE. Which only made it more easier to kill ourselves in the skies, see two sides, he did a lot of things that helped the medical field, but he inevitably made insurance sky-rocket in the future from all those new findings (Two sides again!).

But one cannot change his view solely on that. What he did, what he caused, isn't negligible. So, you're going to hand away the fact that he inevitably killed thousands and millions of people during a war for land grab, he invaded numerous insignificant countries that I don't care about today (You know who you are, France.) only to fatalistically massacre groups of them for not dropping their weapons instantly.

They engineered weapons of war to blast through all defenses that cost massive amounts of resources while their people stared (End of the war).

So, with all that said, let me get this straight, you're going to trade off a mans image for several good things that he had achieved, even though he's a diabolical monster who had massacred thousands and dominated nearly half of Europe because he thought his people needed more land?