Remæus wrote:What if we replaced the reputation stars with an alignment slider?

:O What is that?

Remæus wrote:Also, let me be clear: member reputations are not an average of post ratings. They are a result of complex mathematics that calculate a massive subset of statistics surrounding that user.

Alright. That's comforting. Sort of. The problem is I have absolutely no idea just what does into the calculations for a member's reputation. Could you provide for us some of the statistics involved in this rank? I understand it's quite complex and so could be difficult to break down or provide specific points. However, if we knew just how we were being judged, it may make this muuuuch easier to understand and stomach--maybe even appreciate.

ThatsNotPoetry wrote:Just wanna touch on this so you see why some of us dislike the stars themselves. Luckily I can just refer to something I already said.

ThatsNotPoetry wrote:And on that note, it's not even a useful critique. It's just a star. That doesn't tell me what people thought of it. It only makes me suspicious of my fellow RPers. A star rating only tells me that someone either likes or dislikes me/my post. Not what's good or bad about it or if they had any real reason for ranking it the way they did. It's a way to either boost or destroy someone's confidence. It breeds unrest and bitterness.

Numbers can be quantified, yes, but then it becomes "oh god I am three '5 star' ratings away from being four stars!" ...That's not how good RP works. If anything else it'll urge people to run around grading their own posts or urging friends to grade them well. Having the numbers bare to you isn't always a good thing. For example, it didn't work with post counts.

The post-count system encourages people to post meaningless stuff, as well...it's not that different. On a another, related, note, if you're worried about an aristocracy forming, trust me—it will, no matter what. Whether it's just a cadre of "good" people, or if it's organized by join date, or by posts, or by these star ratings...it's going to happen. I'd rather have the aristocracy based on something like this, so they're open to being pulled down a notch. And, like in any other aristocracy, you will have the nouveau riche—the people going around trying to get everyone to vote for them, like you mentioned. They'll rise shortly, sure, but the amount of people they can convince has always been less than the amount of people they can't convince...and then they slip down until they're exposed.

I don't think you can calculate how far away you are from a ranking. Even if it were only with the ratings on the posts, and nothing more complicated like Remæus alluded to, you'd have to keep track of each post open to voting at all times. If you're that dedicated to your ranking, you'd probably be just as dedicated to your post count, and make pointless posts, too.

I like the slider idea, though. It won't stop people from bracketing others, but it's better.

Does facebook come to mind for anyone else? Not a real big surprise that the RP rating system is being abused, but that's half the fun of having a rep system. Anyway it doesn't tell anything about the RPer as a person. If you don't like it ignore and don't use it. For those that do enjoy the rep system, abuse it as you see fit. Simple as that.

I think the reason people are abusing the system is because of the simple term. Friends.

The ones who have been here longer and gotten to know a lot of people and became friends with them are rating their posts 5 stars whistlist if they see someone who they never roleplayed with, messaged, talked too ect. rate their post 1 star or 2. Which explains the reason why people are abusing it.

Then again I could be wrong but it's my opinion and everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Also I noticed some of the post I recently made had 5 stars and then I checked it again like 5 or 10 minutes later and they're down to 3..wtf...that's where I got the friends = abusing the rating system thing from.

Feel free to disagree with me but like I said it's my opinion and you don't have to agree or not.

Oh, hey, I just thought of something.

Because having a one-sided rating system for however long it takes to get those fifty (or whatever it changes to—personally I think fifty's on the high side) posts is considered bad, can we "protect" those under fifty posts from being able to be rated, in addition to removing their ability to rate?

Y'know the idea of concern over not knowing exactly who is rating you, judging you, kind of reminds me of something.

In court most people would rather be judged by a jury of their 'peers'. You don't know anything about those people. They could be against people like you...they could be a total idiot. But then again maybe they wont be. When needing judgment that could effect whether we live or die, we trust our peers, but we do not trust them with our reputations?

I have another question. Is there a way that you can stop the rating system from appearing under your name, so that it doesn't need to be displayed if you don't want it to be, maybe make a way to just have it appear on their little info page? Just curious, don' t know if that's even logical.

But I do understand your point somewhat (I think Poetry said it) that stars aren't a good helpful critique, maybe not, but they can cause to to take a second look where you otherwise might not have. You can decide for yourself if it was people being stupid or if you see something you want to work on. That way, your plan for improvement, if you choose to participate, is of your own design.

I repeat again, I think the stars just take people to look at things, to reread them, which can't be a bad thing in my book. Being even more aware of what was said by rereading is a good thing.

Interesting system...
I find myself looking at members' reputation stars, and associating that with their writing skills. This way I can more or less gauge whether this roleplayer is someone I want to start a serious, long term RP with. It's quite a helpful tool in that aspect, but I find its advantages considerably outweighed by its flaws. Personally, I think it's more reliable to use the "search user's posts" tool to get a feel of the member's writing ability and style, as opposed to taking the easy route and depending on other users' judgment, which isn't always a fair indication. I'm not an excellent writer, but I have enough sense to recognize decent posts, and I'm surprised to find a lot of them with one-star ratings.

Because I myself look at other members' reputations and take that into consideration when making decisions involving them, I try not to make any slip ups in my own posts in order to avoid getting low ratings. For the same reason, I avoid roleplaying in some RPs that aren't well thought out and lack "appropriate" lengths, fluency and details. I can't speak for everyone else, but I need an easy, relaxing RP that isn't packed with a whole dictionary's worth once in a while. A roleplayer shouldn't be pressured and tied down like this, and a roleplaying community that promotes equality and encourages the members to write their own way shouldn't be imposing such a discouraging system.

If we're looking for honest, quality-based ratings here, we should have something where members can rate others with a reasonable comment to back up, or at least the extreme 1 stars and 5 stars should require an explanation. The current system allows pretty much everybody with over 50 posts to rate others' posts, and the rating can very likely depend on a simple whim. I don't like your character; there, 1 star. Your ideas don't accord to mine, 1 star. Oh my God, your character is hot, instant 5. For the person that's rating, he/she has no idea what impact it can have on the member that's being rated. Sure, some people just don't care, or if one gets a high rating their self-esteem will gain a boost, and that's great, but an unreasonably low one can be really, really discouraging. This system was most likely made with good intentions, but its intangible restrictions have made me consider moving on to other more welcoming roleplaying sites more than once.

I'm aware that it's going to gradually improve, but at the moment my thoughts on it as a relatively new member with a neutral reputation status, aren't exactly positive. I hope this is not seen as a complaint or critique; these are simply my own opinions as a roleplayer and a member of this community. I really appreciate the staff's efforts to improve the site, and I hope this system will be changed for the better.

I wouldn't say that it anywhere close give you a feel for the person's writing. I support the system, but it doesn not do that at all. I think it does, however, give you a first impression on the person's skills. But just because someone has a high or low rank doesn't mean that they will/wont fit in with your style.

Also, if no one takes those with low scores seriously than they will never improve.

Although it is extremly obvious but I am wondering if it would be possible to disable the ranking systen on topics that are posted in the OCC,disscussion, welcome desk, mainlobby, artwork writing and music sections. Poetry or somebosy else mave have already stated this and if so I apollogize.

My opinions of this rating system are rather simple. To me It's completely useless piece of coding that only distracts me form the meat of this delicous site. If I wanted to gauge the copetence of user I would look at his or her IC post and judge for myself; If I thinkthey might not be giving it their all I just might give them a little constructive critism over PM. The inverse is also true. I understand not having alot of time but this can be a rather quick process. Call me stupid or old fashioned this rating system seems like just another bullet point you can wave in the face of other communites.

Brilliant! ^-^

XD Albel, love the sig! And I agree.

I'm getting rather annoyed with people rating OUTSIDE of IC. It's useless on the outside.

I do however understand that the rating system was made for activity, interaction and improvement. I get and support that. Just wish people would grow up and stop abusing our toys ;-;

Post rating is well, pretty much removed from most fora after, erh, around month or so. The problem with most fora is that the rating system just asks to be abused. Sometimes it isn't used to 'rate the post', but to 'rate the user'. And the fun thing is, people can do this anonymously and without reason, so nothing holds people back from 'I don't like you so I'll rate your post low'.

Now, this is very community-dependant and I've been here for what? A few weeks? So I can't sketch a proper image of the community. But going by the stereo-type of large, popular fora; it attracts many 'immature people', for the sake of lacking a better term. I mean, the forum's big, nice lay-out, high up in the search engine, etc.

These people are the ones that rate 'low for fun' and 'rate the user'. A counter-measure to this could be is forcing the member to have been around for a while, or require a certain post count, or require a certain number of positive ratings him/herself. Then again, it may be an unwanted support to an elitist-attitude. Adding to that, when people have a low rating, they get an instant 'hi-I-look-down-on-you-and-your-less-than-3-stars-rating-treatment'. It's also a curse for people who 'mature' during their stay, improve on RP'ing and attitude, but just won't get rid of the negative ratings.

Or limit the ratings to a certain number per day. Which would force people to pick more carefully. But yeah, on the other hand their priorities may be 'rate the user' and the limit will mean that certain posts that are either epic or awful get little to no ratings, because the posters aren't that 'hot' in the community.

The only real counter-measure would be moderation. The requirement to add an argument to the rating which would have to be approved. But this means more work for the staff. I'm not saying anything bad will necessarily happen, like I said;

Kestrel wrote:Now, this is very community-dependant and I've been here for what? A few weeks? So I can't sketch a proper image of the community.

But the chance is always there.

As for rating all posts. Someone may be an incredible bitch but an awesome RP'r. Or a very nice person and an awful RP'r. So the ratings won't really be accurate when people rate both IC and the other posts.

How about the voter leaves a comment on what they like/dislike about the post?

From what I've read, I an see the benefit of the post rating feature and the member reputation feature. They are both nice add-ons, but shouldn't be taken to seriously. I mean, if you've made a few enemies that might affect your rating, but if your only purpose on this forum is to achieve a five star rating, your obviously doing something wrong. Also, I see that biased rating would be limited by the algorithm, which is nice as well.

I have a feeling that there will still be biased here and there, from stupid things like user names and the occasional typos. (If my user name was lulx0rs99, I bet that there are a couple people who would simply look past my post without even noticing it's content.)

Also, hopefully this system will get rid of any source of elitism in the forum. Not that Roleplay Gateway has any, but I'm pretty sure anyone who has been on any forum had that awesome group of people that every tried to chat with or roleplay with. I'm happy to say that I've not really noticed much on this forum.

Note: I apologize in advanced for any typos and whatnot that might be in this post. I haven't used any forums for a couple months, and haven't been on RPGateway for a long time. Its good to be back. I'll see you guys around and might meet some new people too. Also, using poor forum etiquette, I only read Remæus first post, so if anything I've said has already been discussed and dealt with, blame my parents for bringing me up this way. ;D

Remæus, question! I see that you have altered the stars to have alternate next for further explanation. I like that! It also creates less clutter under our icons and user names. But now I see something else that confuses me. It says I have a 3.6 rating, but shows four stars. It says you have a 4.6 rating, but also shows four stars. Shouldn't I show 3 stars (or like 3 and a half) and you show 4 stars (or 4 and a half) or something?

I rather do believe he's fixed it, judging as how I see five stars under his and when I pan over, 4.6 is shown to me.

I also find that I agree with many of the sentiments posted here, and I have a concern myself. If new people with non-rated posts roleplayed, isn't it possible that people in some sort of rush may fail to pan over the stars and merely shun the person? I find that to be a viable cause of disquiet, and await a flame and/or decent-length reply.

Remæus wrote:the rating system can and should be used on all posts ... we aren't here to judge roleplay.
.

That is very true but last time I checked people don't come to role playing forum to judge anything they come to roleplay and do things related to that hobby.

Having the rating system for occ topic post only increases opportunities to abuse the system. Discussion and debate is a good example of this, arguments are started and the forging of enemies is not uncommon. If somebody disagrees with where you stand on a controversial subject they give that post a bad rating, despite any valid or unstated points you made.



since People may look at your score as reflection of your skill level, I myself might be a good example of the system being abused. My IC post are range from mediocre to sub par even if not by your length restrictions. I still mange to get a 3.3 rating last time I checked to a few things said and done out of character.

Remæus wrote:the rating system can and should be used on all posts...

When rating a post, consider the following:

• Is the post on-topic?
• Is the post insightful?
• Is the post polite?
• Did the poster care enough to spell and grammar check?
• Would another member find this post helpful?
• Would another member find this post entertaining?

I disagree with that statement partialydue to your guide linesof rating.Think about the forum games. Bad grammar is often used and most of the they time have no true purpose, it's only mindless fun and self indulgence. Should I post in that section bad ratings?

I surely am not one to cry about the amount of gold stars I have hanging beneath my name, so I’m not going to. But, I must say that is rather degrading to post, outright, quality of an RP based on the opinion of unqualified voters.

Why unqualified? While some of the people voting on other’s posts are well defined, intelligent writers, others are not. Whether they are a professor of English at Princeton, or some drop out smokin’ crack in a box, they are not qualified to decide how good of a writer another person is. Unless, of course, the person has asked to be judged.

It may be obvious from other posts I’ve made that I am not a big fan of quoting. So. I’m going to hold true to my ways and paraphrase. Some person or people were throwing around an idea of replacing the stars with text rankings. How does that change anything beyond hiding the “in your face” approach about mediocrity? The calculations are still going to be based on the same algorithm, providing the same data.

Beyond that, if we are ranking one another, its not the best idea to tell us what the ranks mean in terms of crappy, not so crappy, your average, you aren’t too bad, and you’re good. I say that because people now understand what their new rank is going to stand for, making them feel just as upset as before. ost

So, does this rambling have a point? It didn’t until 2.5 seconds ago when I figured out an idea: Replace this algorithmic equation, and hoity toity program, with a graphics shop that people can customize their side bar with. Not only will it be an interactive way to decorate the site, but it will allow the RPers to feel as though they are contributing to their individuality. A add your own graphic (of a specified size) could be added as well, allowing an RPer to add his own graphic to his sidebar. It, of course, would cost extra points to do something like that.

Instead of classifying people and awarding them based on opinion, allow them to award themselves. Give points for IC and OOC section posts, allowing people to RP the way they want and not have to worry about criticism.

How do you allocate points? Post counts--though they are more flawed this system, supposedly--in only the IC and OOC sections are brought together to form an EXP? chart, awarding points automatically as you gather posts in those individual sections. The higher up the chart (more posts) the less points you receive, making it more difficult and harder to get there.

And to replace the post content stars? Nothing. I like them just the way they are. A post isn’t defined by its length or use of big words. Sure, you can’t accomplish much in three lines, but some people enjoy that. Sure its biased and people can be completely neglectful of good writing, but who cares? This isn’t a competition of who likes and who doesn’t like me. Its about enjoying what you are doing and possibly finding a very good writer amongst a sea of normality. And the post ratings can help with that. And if it is a biased judging of the post, it will be very obvious when you start reading it. Through the post ratings you can then seek out the authors of the posts, allowing you to connect with them on a personal level. And no one’s feelings have to be tracked through the mud to succeed in doing this. Also, it could be cool to add an average post rating to the profile pages.

Those are my ideas. I think those were the type of suggestions you guys were looking for; not sure though, but they will have to do I suppose.