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Top · by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:58 am

Remæus wrote:What if we replaced the reputation stars with an alignment slider?

:O What is that?

Remæus wrote:Also, let me be clear: member reputations are not an average of post ratings. They are a result of complex mathematics that calculate a massive subset of statistics surrounding that user.

Alright. That's comforting. Sort of. The problem is I have absolutely no idea just what does into the calculations for a member's reputation. Could you provide for us some of the statistics involved in this rank? I understand it's quite complex and so could be difficult to break down or provide specific points. However, if we knew just how we were being judged, it may make this muuuuch easier to understand and stomach--maybe even appreciate.

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Top · by **Blast** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:30 am

ThatsNotPoetry wrote:Just wanna touch on this so you see why some of us dislike the stars themselves. Luckily I can just refer to something I already said.
ThatsNotPoetry wrote:And on that note, it's not even a useful critique. It's just a star. That doesn't tell me what people thought of it. It only makes me suspicious of my fellow RPers. A star rating only tells me that someone either likes or dislikes me/my post. Not what's good or bad about it or if they had any real reason for ranking it the way they did. It's a way to either boost or destroy someone's confidence. It breeds unrest and bitterness.

Numbers can be quantified, yes, but then it becomes "oh god I am three '5 star' ratings away from being four stars!" ...That's not how good RP works. If anything else it'll urge people to run around grading their own posts or urging friends to grade them well. Having the numbers bare to you isn't always a good thing. For example, it didn't work with post counts.

The post-count system encourages people to post meaningless stuff, as well...it's not that different. On a another, related, note, if you're worried about an aristocracy forming, trust me—it will, no matter what. Whether it's just a cadre of "good" people, or if it's organized by join date, or by posts, or by these star ratings...it's going to happen. I'd rather have the aristocracy based on something like this, so they're open to being pulled down a notch. And, like in any other aristocracy, you will have the nouveau riche—the people going around trying to get everyone to vote for them, like you mentioned. They'll rise shortly, sure, but the amount of people they can convince has always been less than the amount of people they can't convince...and then they slip down until they're exposed.

I don't think you can calculate how far away you are from a ranking. Even if it were only with the ratings on the posts, and nothing more complicated like Remæus alluded to, you'd have to keep track of each post open to voting at all times. If you're that dedicated to your ranking, you'd probably be just as dedicated to your post count, and make pointless posts, too.

I like the slider idea, though. It won't stop people from bracketing others, but it's better.

Top · by **BSX** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:13 pm

Does facebook come to mind for anyone else? Not a real big surprise that the RP rating system is being abused, but that's half the fun of having a rep system. Anyway it doesn't tell anything about the RPer as a person. If you don't like it ignore and don't use it. For those that do enjoy the rep system, abuse it as you see fit. Simple as that.

Top · by **Angel Of Darkness** on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:55 pm

I think the reason people are abusing the system is because of the simple term. Friends.

The ones who have been here longer and gotten to know a lot of people and became friends with them are rating their posts 5 stars whistlist if they see someone who they never roleplayed with, messaged, talked too ect. rate their post 1 star or 2. Which explains the reason why people are abusing it.

Then again I could be wrong but it's my opinion and everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Also I noticed some of the post I recently made had 5 stars and then I checked it again like 5 or 10 minutes later and they're down to 3..wtf...that's where I got the friends = abusing the rating system thing from.

Feel free to disagree with me but like I said it's my opinion and you don't have to agree or not.

Top · by **Blast** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:17 am

Oh, hey, I just thought of something.

Because having a one-sided rating system for however long it takes to get those fifty (or whatever it changes to—personally I think fifty's on the high side) posts is considered bad, can we "protect" those under fifty posts from being able to be rated, in addition to removing their ability to rate?

Top · by **The Rogue Doll** on Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 am

Y'know the idea of concern over not knowing exactly who is rating you, judging you, kind of reminds me of something.

In court most people would rather be judged by a jury of their 'peers'. You don't know anything about those people. They could be against people like you...they could be a total idiot. But then again maybe they wont be. When needing judgment that could effect whether we live or die, we trust our peers, but we do not trust them with our reputations?

I have another question. Is there a way that you can stop the rating system from appearing under your name, so that it doesn't need to be displayed if you don't want it to be, maybe make a way to just have it appear on their little info page? Just curious, don' t know if that's even logical.

But I do understand your point somewhat (I think Poetry said it) that stars aren't a good helpful critique, maybe not, but they can cause to to take a second look where you otherwise might not have. You can decide for yourself if it was people being stupid or if you see something you want to work on. That way, your plan for improvement, if you choose to participate, is of your own design.

I repeat again, I think the stars just take people to look at things, to reread them, which can't be a bad thing in my book. Being even more aware of what was said by rereading is a good thing.

Top · by **Wild Seven** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:11 am

Interesting system...
I find myself looking at members' reputation stars, and associating that with their writing skills. This way I can more or less gauge whether this roleplayer is someone I want to start a serious, long term RP with. It's quite a helpful tool in that aspect, but I find its advantages considerably outweighed by its flaws. Personally, I think it's more reliable to use the "search user's posts" tool to get a feel of the member's writing ability and style, as opposed to taking the easy route and depending on other users' judgment, which isn't always a fair indication. I'm not an excellent writer, but I have enough sense to recognize decent posts, and I'm surprised to find a lot of them with one-star ratings.

Because I myself look at other members' reputations and take that into consideration when making decisions involving them, I try not to make any slip ups in my own posts in order to avoid getting low ratings. For the same reason, I avoid roleplaying in some RPs that aren't well thought out and lack "appropriate" lengths, fluency and details. I can't speak for everyone else, but I need an easy, relaxing RP that isn't packed with a whole dictionary's worth once in a while. A roleplayer shouldn't be pressured and tied down like this, and a roleplaying community that promotes equality and encourages the members to write their own way shouldn't be imposing such a discouraging system.

If we're looking for honest, quality-based ratings here, we should have something where members can rate others with a reasonable comment to back up, or at least the extreme 1 stars and 5 stars should require an explanation. The current system allows pretty much everybody with over 50 posts to rate others' posts, and the rating can very likely depend on a simple whim. I don't like your character; there, 1 star. Your ideas don't accord to mine, 1 star. Oh my God, your character is hot, instant 5. For the person that's rating, he/she has no idea what impact it can have on the member that's being rated. Sure, some people just don't care, or if one gets a high rating their self-esteem will gain a boost, and that's great, but an unreasonably low one can be really, really discouraging. This system was most likely made with good intentions, but its intangible restrictions have made me consider moving on to other more welcoming roleplaying sites more than once.

I'm aware that it's going to gradually improve, but at the moment my thoughts on it as a relatively new member with a neutral reputation status, aren't exactly positive. I hope this is not seen as a complaint or critique; these are simply my own opinions as a roleplayer and a member of this community. I really appreciate the staff's efforts to improve the site, and I hope this system will be changed for the better.

Top · by **The Rogue Doll** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:02 am

I wouldn't say that it anywhere close give you a feel for the person's writing. I support the system, but it doesn not do that at all. I think it does, however, give you a first impression on the person's skills. But just because someone has a high or low rank doesn't mean that they will/wont fit in with your style.

Also, if no one takes those with low scores seriously than they will never improve.

Top · by **albel cigaro** on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm

Although it is extremly obvious but I am wondering if it would be possible to disable the ranking systen on topics that are posted in the OCC,disscussion, welcome desk, mainlobby, artwork writing and music sections. Poetry or somebosy else mave have already stated this and if so I apollogize.

My opinions of this rating system are rather simple. To me It's completely useless piece of coding that only distracts me form the meat of this delicous site. If I wanted to gauge the copetence of user I would look at his or her IC post and judge for myself; If I thinkthey might not be giving it their all I just might give them a little constructive critism over PM. The inverse is also true. I understand not having alot of time but this can be a rather quick process. Call me stupid or old fashioned this rating system seems like just another bullet point you can wave in the face of other communites.

Top · by **kalina** on Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:18 pm

Brilliant! ^-^

Top · by **Myrin** on Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:38 pm

XD Albel, love the sig! And I agree.

I'm getting rather annoyed with people rating OUTSIDE of IC. It's useless on the outside.

I do however understand that the rating system was made for activity, interaction and improvement. I get and support that. Just wish people would grow up and stop abusing our toys ;-;

Top · by **Remæus** on Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:50 pm

I disagree about that, Myrin and Albel - the rating system can and should be used on all posts. But this is the beauty of the system - it is democracy in its purest form. The entire community has the opportunity to use the system as they see fit, and rate the content that other users put forward for an outcome that reflects the public consensus.

The reason I disagree is because the system is not designed to rate a member's roleplay - we aren't here to judge roleplay. However, the rating system is intended to reflect the post's quality on a variety of things.

When rating a post, consider the following:

Is the post on-topic?
Is the post insightful?
Is the post polite?
Did the poster care enough to spell and grammar check?
Would another member find this post helpful?
Would another member find this post entertaining?

If you keep all of these things in mind when rating a post, you can help ensure that the ratings are meaningful and accurate. If you don't rate a post, someone else will and you'll have missed the opportunity to let your voice be heard.

Top · by **Kestrel** on Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:20 am

Post rating is well, pretty much removed from most fora after, erh, around month or so. The problem with most fora is that the rating system just asks to be abused. Sometimes it isn't used to 'rate the post', but to 'rate the user'. And the fun thing is, people can do this anonymously and without reason, so nothing holds people back from 'I don't like you so I'll rate your post low'.

Now, this is very community-dependant and I've been here for what? A few weeks? So I can't sketch a proper image of the community. But going by the stereo-type of large, popular fora; it attracts many 'immature people', for the sake of lacking a better term. I mean, the forum's big, nice lay-out, high up in the search engine, etc.

These people are the ones that rate 'low for fun' and 'rate the user'. A counter-measure to this could be is forcing the member to have been around for a while, or require a certain post count, or require a certain number of positive ratings him/herself. Then again, it may be an unwanted support to an elitist-attitude. Adding to that, when people have a low rating, they get an instant 'hi-I-look-down-on-you-and-your-less-than-3-stars-rating-treatment'. It's also a curse for people who 'mature' during their stay, improve on RP'ing and attitude, but just won't get rid of the negative ratings.

Or limit the ratings to a certain number per day. Which would force people to pick more carefully. But yeah, on the other hand their priorities may be 'rate the user' and the limit will mean that certain posts that are either epic or awful get little to no ratings, because the posters aren't that 'hot' in the community.

The only real counter-measure would be moderation. The requirement to add an argument to the rating which would have to be approved. But this means more work for the staff. I'm not saying anything bad will necessarily happen, like I said;

Kestrel wrote:Now, this is very community-dependant and I've been here for what? A few weeks? So I can't sketch a proper image of the community.

But the chance is always there.

As for rating all posts. Someone may be an incredible bitch but an awesome RP'r. Or a very nice person and an awful RP'r. So the ratings won't really be accurate when people rate both IC and the other posts.

Top · by **Myrin** on Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:37 am

How about the voter leaves a comment on what they like/dislike about the post?

Top · by **Remæus** on Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:40 am

Because that's not one-click, and chances are only a couple people would fill it out.

Top · by **Lake** on Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:36 pm

From what I've read, I an see the benefit of the post rating feature and the member reputation feature. They are both nice add-ons, but shouldn't be taken to seriously. I mean, if you've made a few enemies that might affect your rating, but if your only purpose on this forum is to achieve a five star rating, your obviously doing something wrong. Also, I see that biased rating would be limited by the algorithm, which is nice as well.

I have a feeling that there will still be biased here and there, from stupid things like user names and the occasional typos. (If my user name was lulx0rs99, I bet that there are a couple people who would simply look past my post without even noticing it's content.)

Also, hopefully this system will get rid of any source of elitism in the forum. Not that Roleplay Gateway has any, but I'm pretty sure anyone who has been on any forum had that awesome group of people that every tried to chat with or roleplay with. I'm happy to say that I've not really noticed much on this forum.

Note: I apologize in advanced for any typos and whatnot that might be in this post. I haven't used any forums for a couple months, and haven't been on RPGateway for a long time. Its good to be back. I'll see you guys around and might meet some new people too. Also, using poor forum etiquette, I only read Remæus first post, so if anything I've said has already been discussed and dealt with, blame my parents for bringing me up this way. ;D

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