RolePlayGateway™

[Nyxeth]

Please remember this forum is for civil discussion only, any threads that degenerate into mindless arguments will be locked.

Thankyou.

[Ylanne]

Dear Alvaron,

I think it says something about our community that you had to post this thread - and not a good thing. So many threads here do degenerate into mindless bashing and flaming, and I find that completely unacceptable.

Personally, I enjoy discussing controversial issues, whether current events, politics, history, or *gasp shudder gasp* religion; however, I only do so respectfully - respecting the opinions and beliefs of both all others and myself. Without such mutual respect in such a discussion, it is easy to turn it into a flame war.

For instance, several users on this site - not naming names - I have observed responding to topics that concern some controversial issue (see list above) with utter disrespect, and even contempt for, the opinions of those with whom they disagree. Insulting the beliefs of others, using excessive profanity, and even personal attacks on individual members only exacerbate the hatred expressed in such posts. . .

I think it's fine, normal, and even good for people to disagree with one another. Wouldn't the world be boring if everyone agreed with all of your beliefs and opinions? Or mine? But when people hate others, or express that kind of disrespect, it just shows a lack of self-respect more than anything else. . . We need to encourage peaceable discussion. We need to see that everyone here feels welcome everywhere here - not just some places, some times.

I hope that everyone can take a look at this section of our forums and see a community where lively debate is encouraged, and where members engage each other respectfully and with great insight. . . If we are to be a City upon a Hill, we and the over eighteen thousand who swell our ranks, then let us do right.

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne

[Nyxeth]

Concerning trouble users, whenever any proceed to attempt to derail threads into mindless bashing upon the subject or users within as mentioned, raise the issue to staff so it may be dealt with efficiently. Not all the staff check every thread and as such things may slip through. Offending posts if possible will be removed and users dealt with. So do remember to inform us, we can't do anything unless we know.

[qbsuperstar03]

In recent days, certain users seem to have gotten the impression that the Discussion and Debate forum is a place to get their impressions about certain things off their chest and see if anyone agrees with them. This is completely unacceptable.

From here on out, any "rant" threads will be locked at first sight, regardless of whether it has been replied to or not. Users, if you see such threads, please report them so we can deal with them.

[Leif Cauldor]

Not trying to be controversial here. But, Isn't that what debates are about? People's discussions about what they believe and how they feel about something? If not, Why don't we add a 'Rant' section to the forum?

Just a suggestion and question. Again, not trying to start anything, just curious.

^_^

[Skallagrim]

No, a debate is the formal method of a representational and interactive argument. In a debate you are trying to persuade your opponent that your position is the superior position on a topic via factual accuracy and compelling arguments. By supporting those arguments with valid evidence and sound reasoning, and presenting your ideas in a clear and effective manner. While some emotional appeal may be included the basis of debate is the presentation of a clear and compelling argument. That criteria is hardly the same as people discussing what they believe and how they feel.

[UnderINK]

That may be so, Skallagrim, but the definition for 'discussion' is much looser and likely where they're finding the basis for rant posts, since it pretty much means an 'informal debate' (without the bells and whistles of a real debate, leaving more gray area for emotional ranting and anecdotal evidence). Not everybody is very skilled at making a clear, concise debate, which is why most people tend to discuss instead, which usually involves a lot of agreement with one another instead or only slightly different perceptions (such as in 'groups' with similar interests where discussions take place, and people tend to be on the same side with a topic).

[Dante215]

Hey, what exactly is flaming anyway? What happens if you post something bluntly with no intent to harm those who read it and they take offense to it? This is something that happens to me in real life as well as I'm completely blunt and straight forward when I'm stating my opinion so what exactly is thought of as "flaming"? I do not insult beliefs, nor do I state it in disrespect but some people just have problems occasionally with what I say.

[MadMoxxi]

The title of this section is "Discussion & Debate". This tells me that "Discussion" was intended from the outset. Discussion is, as UnderINK states, informal debate, as clearly indicated in the following definition.

dis·cus·sion /dɪˈskʌʃən/ Show Spelled[dih-skuhsh-uhn] Show IPA –noun
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

Just for good measure here's the definition for debate.

de·bate /dɪˈbeɪt/ Show Spelled [dih-beyt] Show IPA noun, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing. –noun
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.

I also feel the need to remind the audience that "Discussion" appears first. If discussion was never intended then that word needs to be removed from the title.

[MadMoxxi]

I now see that there is a very big problem in the understanding of the forum rules. I seriously understand the problem with perceived and intended insult. Not even 24 hours into the debate forum and already I have someone taking an honest concern for health as insult. The evidence? How many times the person emphatically denied being crazy, when that was never the issue I mentioned.

Wow.... just... wow.

[Akita]

A discussion doesn't mean you can pick fights or throw indirect insults around, though. You should choose your words carefully and if you disagree with someone, do it in a light-hearted manner. Or at least say "I understand your point, but I feel this..."

[Dante215]

True, but it does mean we have the right to make our opinions and voices on a subject heard, this has been one of the few places on this site where half the time people have felt that they may freely express their feelings towards a set topic. If you don't want 'rants' under here, can you at least move them to a different forum so that we may state our own opinion freely?

[Mid]

Perhaps you guys should find a new way to go about it. =3

[Dante215]

Need I remind you that the greens have been just as guilty for making/joining in on rants, it's not like you guys are really in any position to just decide that making rants is a no no as you're just as guilty of it yourselves. We need a place to say these things openly or else we would not put them up and now you're threatening to tear them all down? Dude, if you want them removed from there make another forum where we can put them up and we'll post them there but until then, don't just go around tearing them all down, just because you have the power doesn't mean you have the right.

[Aniihya]

MadMoxxi you never called that person crazy but you told him to see a doctor because his mental health might be affected. That is clearly calling someone mentally ill and therefore an insult. Such things wont be tolerated.

[dealing with it]

It seems the core of both discussion and debate is the dialogue. Two or more people conversing about a topic, considering what one another are saying, making compromises on definitions,... it's nonfiction writing, where your audience is able to give you near-instantaneous feedback.

The difference between a discussion and a debate is the depth of feedback. In a discussion, the audience wants to figure out what the writer is saying. "What does this mean? Can you reduce that paragraph to a word? Can you give an example?" You ask these sorts of questions, and generally assume that the writer is competent enough in that field to take the role of instructor. It's a bit of pressure, but for clarity's sake. (The competency is not only expected of the opening poster, but also of anyone who posts... if you say something in a discussion but someone doesn't understand, you are a candidate for their questions.)

A debate brings in something a lot heavier than clarity. It brings in truth. Everyone wants to have a true picture of the world, and many people who have false pictures of the world will still argue as though their view is accurate. Luckily, there are many ways to find out if something is false (far more than there are of finding out if something is true). You can look for persistent fallacies, contradictions, and so forth. You make sure the definitions are clear, and that the arguments flow a to b to c. Although you are unlikely to find the truth in any given debate, you are very likely to come across pitfalls and falsehoods. Personally, I like to continue doing research after the debate ends. "Next time, Gadget! Next time!"

Apart from things like spam and trolls, which clearly don't belong, I don't think that rants really fit here. It's "zero feedback". Without the meaningful dialogue, it's missing half of the writer: the audience. Rants, fiction or non-fiction, might be better suited to the Writing section of the Creative Realm or the Main Lobby. Same with the sharing of anecdotes (unless you could theoretically interrupt show-and-tell to poke at the topic with a stick): fireside stories seems like more more of a Main Lobby sort of thing.

The deciding factor, I think, is the question:"is there room for discussion or debate?" If someone could theoretically give you feedback on your rant, then it can fit.