What are your thoughts on it? Personally, I oppose all forms of physical punishment against children on the grounds that they promote authoritarian thinking ('do as I say or else you'll be beat'), simplistic moral and ethical values, fear of the parent(s), et al.

First we should probably figure out what 'spanking' is. In -my- family, what I grew up with and had myself, a spanking was a form of a shock and awe technique. It was a light swat to the bottom , in which my father called spanking. I received this upon doing something wrong, which I knew was wrong, or that was wrong, and then explained how this was wrong, so as to not do it again.

As discussed in chat earlier, I believe in it. Do I think it should be the first thing? No, do I think it should never be used? No. Sometimes it needs to be done. On that same level of thinking, I do not think anyone under the age of three should be spanked, and they shouldn't be spanked for just crying, or something small and trivial (like saying, you're a liar, you're a buthead). It has it's uses, since humans learn from pain (you learned not to touch the hot stove because you burnt your hand on it, sort of thing).

Spanking is considered a lot of things, my many people however I think the mid-ground is best used for the purpose of this thread. In general it ranges from a of light smack with the open hand (generally on the bottom) to multiple solid strikes with an implement (belt, paddle, switch from the woods whatever. My father used paint sticks). So I think it best we consider "spanking" to be considered with the open hand or a light implement (like the paint sticks my parents used, they were relatively flimsy). However, regardless of what is used the intent is the same. Spanking is a form of physical punishment intended to give rise to desired behavior in children. (I'm currently trying to find some scientific studies on the matter, so I might be mostly silent... maybe. >_>)

Saken wrote:First we should probably figure out what 'spanking' is. In -my- family, what I grew up with and had myself, a spanking was a form of a shock and awe technique. It was a light swat to the bottom , in which my father called spanking. I received this upon doing something wrong, which I knew was wrong, or that was wrong, and then explained how this was wrong, so as to not do it again.

Arceius wrote:Spanking is a form of physical punishment intended to give rise to desired behavior in children.

And that's what I have a problem with. I don't think that that 'positive' behavior and 'correct' morality should be reinforced with physical violence. Call me a liberal pussy, but I do not think that's how we should teach our kids what's right and what's wrong. I also don't think we should teach authoritarianism, like 'follow what I command, or you'll get spanked' -- instead, 'you should follow what I command, and here are the reasons why'.

That said, spanking should not never be used; I think there are some circumstances where it might be acceptable. However, as a rule, no, it shouldn't be used, in my opinion.

It's still acceptable, and it's a reminder that doing that will bring pain. It's the same as placing your hand on a stove. You've been told time and time again not to do it, but you don't fully understand why. The moment you place your hand on it, and you're like, "Aw son of a bitch ow pain," you don't do it again, and you're very cautious, from that point on. On the flip side, just because you get spanked or hurt doesn't mean you won't do it again, or that you're conditioned in a way that you'll think if you do something wrong you'll get spanked- although, in a way that is how society is working.

I mean, if you do something 'wrong' - Illegal- you get spanked- sent to jail. ;3

As a parent I have marched to a beat (no pun intended) of a different drum. I never reinforced crying, never punished only awarded good behaviour. In that way I feel the child has positive motive to act positive. But children being inquisitive little buggers, they act out, they test boundaries. Swatting a child's bottom or hand when they are in direct danger to themselves or others is acceptable in my opinion. Every time a child misbehaves or says a bad word, no physical act of discipline would be necessary; only in extreme cases.

Saken wrote:It's still acceptable, and it's a reminder that doing that will bring pain. It's the same as placing your hand on a stove. You've been told time and time again not to do it, but you don't fully understand why. The moment you place your hand on it, and you're like, "Aw son of a bitch ow pain," you don't do it again, and you're very cautious, from that point on. On the flip side, just because you get spanked or hurt doesn't mean you won't do it again, or that you're conditioned in a way that you'll think if you do something wrong you'll get spanked- although, in a way that is how society is working.

I mean, if you do something 'wrong' - Illegal- you get spanked- sent to jail. ;3

Again, that's teaching (or at least, attempting to teach) to the child that they shouldn't do things because they could get punished. For example, if you spank your child when he bullies other kids, ze might learn to not bully other kids only because he could be punished if he does so; instead, you could teach the kid that he shouldn't bully other kids because of the golden rule, or something similar. Now, you might say that you could use both methods, but I hold that spanking can have some negative effects which should be avoided by teaching and using non-physical punishments when ze does misbehave.

Link: A study showing no relation between spanking and anti-social behavior (or rather, no more than any other form of punishment) but states that "Improved research methods are needed to discriminate between effective vs. counterproductive implementations of disciplinary tactics. How and when disciplinary tactics are used may be more important than which type of tactic is used."

Link: A study showing an increase in aggressive behavior in five year old children who were spanked since they were three.

Link: This is the less useful abstraction for an study, I tied to find a free full text but was unable. The abstraction isn't entirely useless though, as it shows some of the information the study gathered. However, without the full text there's not way to objectively verify the contents and accuracy of the study or it's references.

Link: Here's an interesting study that finds correlation between corporal punishment and externalizing behavioral issues, but references a study by Eamon int eh comment that showed these results could variate based upon perceived neighborhood quality and on how common corporal punishment was in those neighborhoods.

Eamon suggested that the results of her study indicated that "when environmental risk is high, authoritarian parenting strategies result in lower levels of antisocial behavior."

Link: Here is an article on different forms of discipline. It's not much in the way of a scientific study, but it has some interesting things to say.

(Note: I've only skimmed these studies myself, in an effort to get them onto the thread.)

**Edited to make the horrifying URL text go away.**

well, I think spanking is included into the corporal punishments, and there are a lot of ways of considering them, so the most important thing for me is not if you should use punishments or not, but to teach and educate the children.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Yes, I do believe in discipline.
No, I do not believe in hurting the child.
Pinching to me is acceptable, don't know about you, don't care.
Too many people don't know how to restrain kids, if they know they can get away with it they will....and more.

Normally I am all about the science, but when I see it used in this arena I get depressed. What ever happened to the moral compass? When I was eight I dropped fundamentalism because I knew the idea of people burning in hell over a belief was wrong. Science didn't allow me to do that, my heart did. I don't need a study to tell me the difference between right and wrong. Hitting your kids is the cowardly act of a lazy parent at its best, at its worst it is a cover for sociopathology. Any human being who identifies with the 'good' and sees this sort of behavior has an ethical duty to stop it, even if this means giving Mommy or Daddy their own spanking.

Well, like I said in chat.

Spanking to me is wrong.

You can phrase it anyway you want. A slight swat, a noise, a small sting, a light bruise/red mark or a beat down. It's all the same to me. Generally, I feel using fear to "train" a child is wrong and will only result in more insecure children growing up into insecure adults.

I know I will never lay a hand on my child, no matter the situation because I know it "hurt" me when my mother laid a hand on me, mentally and physically. I want my child to love me, not fear me. Respect me, not hate me. Hitting a child in an attempt to discipline them is as Mad said (and me lul) a lazy way of teaching. We should lead by example, setting ground rules and enforcing them without the use of violence.

I'm an avid watcher of Super nanny, yes and I would rather use "the naughty chair" then "spank" my child. I feel they have gained better results and as I said before, people spank because they don't want to deal with the emotions. Talking means you have to be open to hearing what another person wants to say and most people are incapable of that form of commitment.

My mom spanked me with a spanking stick. It put the fear of God in me. Holy shit. It wasn't until I grew up, though, that I realized two things:

1. How difficult it was for her to do it.
2. How glad I am that she did do it.

Will I spank my kids, if I have kids? Yeah. Will it be with a flat board? Probably not. But maybe. It definitely kept me in line with the mouthy things I said. It wasn't abuse. My parents loved me more than anything. Which sounds sappy to say, but hey! There it is.

I will say that I didn't get spanked for everything. It was mostly for, like I said, mouthing off or intentionally being some sort of deviant.

Wonder what else y'all will have to say?

Similar topic, yo.

I think kids should be spanked! most of us were spanked and we damn sure learned!

I was spanked. Mostly for lying to my parents. So I got better at lying to them. I learned to stick to my lies as well. My parents never spanked me unless they were absolutely sure I did something to deserve it. So instilling that doubt prevented a lot of it when I got older in age. The last time they did it I never cried out in pain. So they stopped doing it to me. It had obviously lost it's effect.

That's pretty much how my children are going to be brought up. They'll either learn honesty to authority or to be better liars. both of which have their own benefits later in life. I'll never discipline my child while I'm still angry, and I'll be sure they've done something before I do, and I'll stop once it becomes ineffective.

Oh! and never in public. that's just asking for trouble.

The reasons and responses given by advocates of child/adolescent/teenage-only corporal punishment are nearly always the same:

1) "The Bible says...."

2) Research/statements from the religious fundamentalist sector (as opposed to those who believe Jesus would never condone hitting a child).

3) They're not doing it "right". I still haven't found any general consensus on a "right" method for "spanking" kids.

4) "I was 'spanked' (or bullied in school, or raised by the state, drank the green water,etc) and I turned out OK."

5) If you don't "spank" children, they'll end up in prison/hell/with terrible manners (hitting being confused with discipline).