Sparked up from this:

Mike Elgan - 3:44 PM - Public
Christmas toy of of the year? The iPad, of course!

Nielsen says 44 per cent of kids between the ages six and 12 want an iPad for the holidays. What the pollsters didn't ask was how many parents want their kids to have iPads, too.

Globe and Mail blogger +Elli Stuhler was kind enough to notice that I predicted the iPad's popularity as a kids' toy before the iPad even shipped:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the ... le2243282/

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... _the_Year_

How about it, parents? Who's giving their child an iPad this year?


Pic props: Yasuyoshi Chiba/Getty Images

My opinion: (Note my objection is to primary school kids)

I wish people would stop buying their kids, cellphones, computers and other stuff, they fuck them up and generally cause trouble. I say only when in high school, ya should have ya own computer.

One: you need to teach kids about danger of the net.

Two: you probably will have to keep an eye on them.

Three: They've no need, we had a Amiga in my house, and as that couldn't go online, it was fine, but something that can go online to primary school kids, no way.

Thoughts?

Never bar children from emerging technologies, especially not ones that are connected to literally the largest collection of human knowledge anywhere in the known universe.

I say let 'em have them. I argue this because a)children are wise, if you tell them what's wrong and what not to do, impose restrictions they can actually understand and block sites you don't want them going on (adult things, etc) and b) I had no education beyond high-school, everything I know I learned outside of school, and frankly, if I went to school now, I'd probably get any degree I wanted (except maths, I really f******g hate maths.)

Just let them have it. Don't let them have free reign on the internet though. God. That'd be... awful.

In my opinion, on the large scale, technology has created more problems than it has anything else. The biggest issue for most people before the technological boom were small and simple things. With the fruition of modern technology, humans have way more things to worry about. Total global annihilation if one man gets mad at another and decides to throw nuclear sticks at them, global warming, economic turmoil. Need I go on? But I digress; I'm a little off topic now.

If it was up to me, I wouldn't allow my kid to live with any technology, but society gets in the way of that. Living without technology in today's world will only set one up for failure. I'm not about to set my kid up for failure. I don't think an Ipad is necessary something a kid needs at that age. Heck, I don't think anyone needs Apple products in general, nor do people really need cellphones. I think giving them limited time on the computer will be good enough (when I have a child).

Mr_Doomed wrote:If it was up to me, I wouldn't allow my kid to live with any technology, but society gets in the way of that. Living without technology in today's world will only set one up for failure. I'm not about to set my kid up for failure. I don't think an Ipad is necessary something a kid needs at that age. Heck, I don't think anyone needs Apple products in general, nor do people really need cellphones. I think giving them limited time on the computer will be good enough (when I have a child).

Fire counts as technology.

Glasses, crutches, synthetic clothing, natural clothing, tools, etc, etc,

It all counts.

Also, Apple do not = technology. They're a tiny company, really.

Oh! And before you argue any more of your technophobic paranoia-babble, I'd just like you to think of all the lives saved, rather than lost, due to technology.

Sheoul wrote:Oh! And before you argue any more of your technophobic paranoia-babble, I'd just like you to think of all the lives saved, rather than lost, due to technology.

Oh yes, all the lives that technology has saved only mean there are less people who are succumbing to natural selection which causes overpopulation. Also, technology helped fuel globalization, which created a population boom to a point were there are over a billion people who are starving. The population boom has a whole lot more effects on the world too and it all started with technology.
There was a time in the world where we lived without technology and we, like every other animal in the world probably would have done fine. I'd personally be happier without it.

Now I can't go back in time, but I really wish that I could.

Mr_Doomed wrote:

Sheoul wrote:Oh! And before you argue any more of your technophobic paranoia-babble, I'd just like you to think of all the lives saved, rather than lost, due to technology.

Oh yes, all the lives that technology has saved only mean there are less people who are succumbing to natural selection which causes overpopulation. Also, technology helped fuel globalization, which created a population boom to a point were there are over a billion people who are starving. The population boom has a whole lot more effects on the world too and it all started with technology.
There was a time in the world where we lived without technology and we, like every other animal in the world probably would have done fine. I'd personally be happier without it.

Now I can't go back in time, but I really wish that I could.

You're right.

Sitting in a mud-hut with a fire, hoping a wild animal won't eat your children during the freezing cold nights, worrying if you'll be able to keep your tiny farm running and kill some wild animals just to feed yourself for another night, also thinking of the inevitable "takers" of society who are going to forgoe your previous worries by just barging in, taking what they want from you, and possibly braining you with a brick because A) there's no CCTV to prove it happened, B) no phones to call for help and C) no police, and if there was, their response time would be hours unless they saw the incident themselves, or a witness managed to scamper to them.

You're right.

It's better being an animal shitting in a little hole in the ground.

I bet your argument goes down well in the intensive care units.

Sheoul: If you'd like to discuss this any further, I'd suggest we create a new topic and have our discussions there or maybe we could continue through PMs. We've gone way off topic here. In the end though, I think my argument comes down to the fact that we have overcomplicated or lives. Your argument comes down to the fact that without it, we are worse off. Neither of us can be sure if the other is right because we haven't lived in one of the situations from birth.

My apologies for sparking the fire that created this off topic discussion.

Mr_Doomed wrote:Sheoul: If you'd like to discuss this any further, I'd suggest we create a new topic and have our discussions there or maybe we could continue through PMs. We've gone way off topic here. In the end though, I think my argument comes down to the fact that we have overcomplicated or lives. Your argument comes down to the fact that without it, we are worse off. Neither of us can be sure if the other is right because we haven't lived in one of the situations from birth.

My apologies for sparking the fire that created this off topic discussion.

Sounds fair enough to me.

PM me when you like.

I hate the mainstream crap. Everyone has an Iphone, IPad or Ipod, except for anticommercial breakheads and true hipsters. I am of the first variant. I dont have a smartphone since its more of a dumbphone. I have seen kids on the bus go from socializing with each other two years ago to antisocial behavior today. They do not talk to the person next to them, they text him or call him with the cell. With the people on the American Air Force base nearby its worse than the German population here. Two days ago, a guy in a sedan who was driving in front of me wrapped his car around a tree. The cause: He was playing with an app on his Iphone. The dependency on electronic gadgets is a serious problem that no one realizes any more.

By the way, I wouldnt let a six year old on the net without supervision. The internet is a huge database with lots and lots of misinformation, information sources that contradict other information sources and content not suitable for kids. My kids would need to go to school to learn, because that is the only place where there is a 98% certainty that the kid learns the right stuff.

For you guys I might be backwards with my woodlands cabin (that has running water, electricity and a carbon fiber cable that runs under it), my cell that is capable of making 6 Megapixel photos, phoning but not texting, that I have no TV but watch the news at CNN.com, that I sometimes hunt my own food, that I only take my little 2006 VW Polo (that runs on a 2 liter combustion engine with 110 KW and needs 7 liters of super unleaded on 100 kilometers) if the distance is further than 20 km (if its only 2-3 km I walk, if it is up to 20km I take the motorbike) otherwise I take the bus, that I am very religious (polytheist though quite liberal), that I believe it is important to get four kids, that I built my PC from 3000 Euros worth of parts, that I dont go to the movies unless its an independent film or a humorously horrible b-movie, that I own a notebook and not an Ipad, that I live in the middle of the woods although I have a degree in languages or that I will celebrate winter solstice with a fire on an open field with others like me eating bratwurst, snake, squirrel, deer, spiced potato-salad and sugared almonds. I am even a person who is against anglicisms in the German language.

My point is: The way technology dependency is going, I purposely live with boycotting particular electronics. My child will grow up with other kids that socialize and are free of an Iphone they would be dependent of if they had one.

The time is ever-coming when we will have augmentations, prosthetic replacements for flesh and all of that, even neural cables and all of that. It's no longer a matter of how, it's a matter of when and technological literacy is the way to go, even though some teenagers my age, and younger kids use the internet in incrasingly stupid and obscene ways, it's something that they will regret much later and it teaches them that lesson.

Technology and life are becoming the same thing. Y'know?

Gasmask wrote:The time is ever-coming when we will have augmentations, prosthetic replacements for flesh and all of that, even neural cables and all of that. It's no longer a matter of how, it's a matter of when and technological literacy is the way to go, even though some teenagers my age, and younger kids use the internet in incrasingly stupid and obscene ways, it's something that they will regret much later and it teaches them that lesson.

Technology and life are becoming the same thing. Y'know?

Well, Transhumanism isn't exactly fringe science anymore.

Aniihya wrote:I have seen kids on the bus go from socializing with each other two years ago to antisocial behavior today. They do not talk to the person next to them, they text him or call him with the cell.

But they are socializing. They are texting, calling, facebooking, whatever, real people. Just people that you can't see in the room, which from an outside perspective looks like that person is just sitting with their face buried in an LCD screen being alone. However we should all know better. They're connecting with people in real time over distances that a generation ago would have required days weeks or months to correspond with. A lot of them are probably interacting with several people at once. That requires them to keep track of several different conversations. Try doing that next time in a group of people. They're also forming coherent sentences. It may not be perfect grammar but the communication of ideals is whats important. And if they can make someone else understand them, then they have succeeded at communication.

Aniihya wrote:By the way, I wouldnt let a six year old on the net without supervision. The internet is a huge database with lots and lots of misinformation, information sources that contradict other information sources and content not suitable for kids. My kids would need to go to school to learn, because that is the only place where there is a 98% certainty that the kid learns the right stuff.

I agree with this sentiment. A child must learn skeptical thinking before being exposed to the full force of the internet.

Aniihya wrote:My point is: The way technology dependency is going, I purposely live with boycotting particular electronics. My child will grow up with other kids that socialize and are free of an Iphone they would be dependent of if they had one.

I won't presume to tell you or anyone how to raise their child. This is just my sentiment. I would call that crippling a child. In a world where such technologies will inevitably be keys to their success, putting them behind the curve wont do them any good. You can see it today with the older generations. Their ineptitude with computers is still apparent and they are constantly playing catch up with the younger generation who have grown up learning to use them. It puts them at a disadvantage with the rest of the workforce.

Social interaction is probably the best thing a child learns early on. Kids socialize in 3 major places, school, over SMS and the internet. Cutting out 2/3 of their social interaction isn't good for them. It's those skills with technology that will enable them to create a wider network of social connections which are important to getting better and stronger relationships and furthering their careers.

An Iphone is not a need in life. It is a distraction, a distraction from work, school, individualism and even handling a motor vehicle. Productivity has gone down ever since the Iphone became a big hit. I even warned one of my two employees because he wasnt working but messing with his Iphone. School: Over here we enforced a rule already banning cellphones and PDAs with internet function because it distracted the students and school grade averages went down. Individualism, because Iphone is owned by most people here and you get bullied for not having an Iphone although the Iphone is crap compared to newer Samsung smartphones and HTC brand phones. Handling a motor vehicle because 15% of accidents in the area because people focused on their Iphone instead of the road.

If you are asking yourself, "how does the young owner of a tiny three man company get on a school bus?" Well simply because school buses here are just public transportation buses that drive at special times where even people who arent students can ride with.

I am not cutting kids off from socializing. My little cousin lives in a village and normally in villages here, kids and teens socialize by playing (european) football, hanging around and participating in traditional groups such as 'Straussbuwwe (which is mainly just about drinking beer). i grew up in a village and know for a fact that city kids have a hard time finding friends that they will ever meet physically. Socializing isnt just talking or "messaging" each other, its about activities together, about contact, even LAN parties are okay since the kids and teens are in the same room. But I do not find it acceptable to let a kid stay at home and get fat in front of his PC.

How about all things in moderation? Use your phone when and where it's appropriate. New Brunswick has a law banning cellphone use while driving for good reason. I don't use mine while working or while driving because it's not appropriate. It would be a matter of educating on that matter rather than assume it's bad for them and toss the whole system out.

Bullying is a deeper problem and isn't directly caused by phones. If you removed iphones from the equation, they would simply find something else to discriminate against.

I see your point and I agree. I wouldn't want my kid to end up on the couch their whole lives either. But I feel there is real benefit to the technology if used under the right circumstances and I believe rejecting it for the sake of nostalgia is not the way to go about it.

I have never been confronted with bullying. And it sure is a lot rarer here than what I hear about the US. But the electronics dependency has gone bad meanwhile and no one here doesnt something against texting while driving or other stuff like that. I dont reject technology out of nostalgia but I see it like this: Technology can be for improvement and personal luxury, but it isnt supposed to permanently distract people.