Someone I saw was in a fight, a fight against an opponent who could regenerate unconditionally. So rather than trying to help them there, I'm going to go with help here, in an effort to share and swap knowledge and tips on combat.
To Summarise
This topic is about combat tricks that you've had problems with in the past and sharing advice on how to overcome them. It's meant to be a collaboration.
Topics Covered
Regeneration
Teleportation
Earth Manipulation
Flight
Psychics
Armoured Opponents
So, to help a friend does anyone have tips, tricks or ways to beat someone who can regenerate non-stop?
The help I'm going to offer is: Regenerating doesn't mean immunity to damage. This gives you the option to either incapacitate or rend them unconscious. Alternatives include tranquilizers or tasers.
Another way you could handle them is by burying them or restraining them. Dump something on them so heavy they can't move. If you're capable, tear down a wall on top of them (though it might take some setting up).
Now I personally have a problem with teleporters. Anyone got any advice there?
Feel free to ask for help on any powers, tricks or general tactics that you have found difficult to match in text combat.
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Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them.
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Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:10 am
Last edited by Patcharoo on Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Alasund De'astio on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:18 am
Well, I'm not very well off against teleporters. I'd be interested in the tips for that.
However, constant regeneration. Funny thing about this, it's regeneration. It doesn't bring you back to life. An auto-kill manouver will finish them. Cut their head off, etc. Anything that won't kill them immediately, they can unfortunantly recover from. Also, they can regen the damage, but a constant source of pain, say if you've got the arm twisted behind their back, isn't effected. You couldn't use it to permanently break their arm, but constant pain...
There are other tricks, but I'm out of time for the moment, I'll be back to this thread at a later date.
However, constant regeneration. Funny thing about this, it's regeneration. It doesn't bring you back to life. An auto-kill manouver will finish them. Cut their head off, etc. Anything that won't kill them immediately, they can unfortunantly recover from. Also, they can regen the damage, but a constant source of pain, say if you've got the arm twisted behind their back, isn't effected. You couldn't use it to permanently break their arm, but constant pain...
There are other tricks, but I'm out of time for the moment, I'll be back to this thread at a later date.
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Alasund De'astio - Global Moderator and Scholar
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Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Tiko on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:48 am
Patcharoo wrote:The help I'm going to offer is: Regenerating doesn't mean immunity to damage. This gives you the option to either incapacitate or rend them unconscious. Alternatives include tranquilizers or tasers.
Another way you could handle them is by burying them or restraining them. Dump something on them so heavy they can't move. If you're capable, tear down a wall on top of them (though it might take some setting up).
I would actually challenge the use of knocking them unconscious or making use of tranquilizes and tasers. The former definitely, due to the fact that what is keeping them unconscious is damage to the brain generally. This would rapidly repair and they would regain consciousness promptly. However if the nature of unconsciousness is hypnotic and not physical, then yes, I think that would do the trick.
The latter two options would likely depend on the type of regeneration. Tranquilizers are a chemical reaction, so if their body is capable of processing and breaking down chemicals at the same increased rate as they can heal, then it wouldn't do any good. The latter I would again reference the earlier issue with unconsciousness. Any damage caused by the electricity would rapidly heal. However, an ongoing current would likely debilitate them nicely for the duration of the electrical shocks and could in theory be applied until death resulted.
Of course restraining them is always my preferred suggestion. All the regeneration in the world doesn't do you much good if you're chained down and can't make use of it.
Patcharoo wrote:Now I personally have a problem with teleporters. Anyone got any advice there?
That's a tricky one, and largely depends on the nature of teleporting. Short range teleporting you can try to get the drop on them by anticipating where they're going to teleport to, or doing area damage that will catch them regardless of where they teleport to. Long range teleportation is trickier, but if it's magic/mana based, there are a number of options feasible to lock down their abilities. If it's technologically based you have less freedom, but the same theory would apply. Find a way to disable the technology performing the feat, rather than stopping the teleportation after it has already occurred.
Of course, with either of these methods you first need to know that you're opponent can teleport, which is of course where learning comes in. First encounter they'll probably catch you off guard. Second encounter you'll be prepared.
Another option would be to utilize a means to track teleporters, so you can essentially trace the residual energy left behind by your applied ability and track where they're teleporting to. Utilizing something of this nature, you could then simply pursue them. Though to keep up, you may also need to employ teleportation. However, even if you didn't, you could always keep tabs on their location to then try to apply one of the other suggested methods during a follow up encounter.
And one final suggestion would be to get the drop on them. If you KO them in a surprise round before they have a chance to react, then they'll never get the chance to teleport in the first place. This is best applied with the previous method of tracking them.
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Tiko - Administrator
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Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:07 pm
Alasund De'astio wrote:It doesn't bring you back to life.
I'll disagree there, from personal experience.
Hell, Wolverine even.
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:26 pm
Seems a bit silly to even be discussing something like this.
'Beating' combat tricks? If someone is going to insist on using something like 'My character has regeneration, which makes him awesome', going 'I hit him with tranqs' isn't going to do anything. If they're already going to god-mode it enough that you can't beat them, it's pretty easy for them just to say 'Oh yes, the magical aether-rawr in me which causes my regeneration also attacks foreign bodies in me which are hostile to my body'.
'Beating' combat tricks? If someone is going to insist on using something like 'My character has regeneration, which makes him awesome', going 'I hit him with tranqs' isn't going to do anything. If they're already going to god-mode it enough that you can't beat them, it's pretty easy for them just to say 'Oh yes, the magical aether-rawr in me which causes my regeneration also attacks foreign bodies in me which are hostile to my body'.
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:17 am
This is a collaborative effort to try to come up with alternatives to brute force people with tactics or powers that are difficult to combat. The idea of the topic is to overcome said abilities or powers without sacrificing the integrity of yourself or the roleplay. What's so silly about it? I mean, yeah, some people do have that power, and if you do get forced into a fight with them as a result of plot then you need to be prepared or know how to handle it.
Alternatively, whats your method of dealing with someone with this sort of power?
Alternatively, whats your method of dealing with someone with this sort of power?
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:23 am
I find someone who doesn't play with characters/in settings where 'I have regeneration which makes me impossible to kill!' happens.
How do you deal with it? You generally don't. Regeneration without some kind of Achille's Heel is a horrid idea (See: Trolls in DnD. They won't die, unless they take damage from acid or fire. Or a generic werewolves' hyper-regeneration, except when exposed to silver) adds nothing to a combat, or a story. Worst example of this is Wolverine. Like every Wolverine writer, if you try to 'get around' someone who just goes 'I regenerate it', theres going to be very little chance for wiggle room. They'll just claim regeneration from that, too.
How do you deal with it? You generally don't. Regeneration without some kind of Achille's Heel is a horrid idea (See: Trolls in DnD. They won't die, unless they take damage from acid or fire. Or a generic werewolves' hyper-regeneration, except when exposed to silver) adds nothing to a combat, or a story. Worst example of this is Wolverine. Like every Wolverine writer, if you try to 'get around' someone who just goes 'I regenerate it', theres going to be very little chance for wiggle room. They'll just claim regeneration from that, too.
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:40 am
Which is why we've made this topic. To come up with ways to beat people who pull tricks like that. Better to try to find an alternative solution then just accepting defeat every time?
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:39 am
This is the problem. It's freeform. While it may be horribly bad form, it doesn't matter what you come up with when someone will just put their hands over their ears, and keep chanting 'I dodge, I survive, I dodge, I survive, I dodge' for everything...
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Alasund De'astio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:11 am
Patcharoo wrote:Alasund De'astio wrote:It doesn't bring you back to life.
I'll disagree there, from personal experience.
Hell, Wolverine even.
No, Wolverine never got shot through the eye, or anything like that. He was almost impossible to do that to due to his admentium all over his bones and such, making his vital areas very resistant. But I do not believe he was ever shot through the eye. Poison wouldn't kill him fast enough, etc, etc. Also, Magneto could tear him to pieces.
Wolverine was not invincible. Anyone who has a Regeneration character come back to life is GodModding.
Ahem:
Regeneration, noun: The act or process of an animal or plant of a organ, tissue or body part that has been lost or destroyed.
Only if used loosely can it be considered coming back to life. Rebirth or Renewal might be a better word for that.
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Alasund De'astio - Global Moderator and Scholar
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Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:55 am
But.
Say this regeneration extended to, y'know, their brain.
Trust me. This has happened. This isn't a 'This is what I think the definition of Regeneration is'. This is 'This is how people use regeneration'. Some people boast characters capable of regenerating from nothing but a piece of brain left over.
Say this regeneration extended to, y'know, their brain.
Trust me. This has happened. This isn't a 'This is what I think the definition of Regeneration is'. This is 'This is how people use regeneration'. Some people boast characters capable of regenerating from nothing but a piece of brain left over.
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Alasund De'astio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:45 am
... Then it's my opinion they're misusing the word. ;-)
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Alasund De'astio - Global Moderator and Scholar
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Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:09 pm
Alasund De'astio wrote:Patcharoo wrote:Alasund De'astio wrote:It doesn't bring you back to life.
I'll disagree there, from personal experience.
Hell, Wolverine even.
No, Wolverine never got shot through the eye, or anything like that. He was almost impossible to do that to due to his admentium all over his bones and such, making his vital areas very resistant. But I do not believe he was ever shot through the eye. Poison wouldn't kill him fast enough, etc, etc. Also, Magneto could tear him to pieces.
Wolverine was not invincible. Anyone who has a Regeneration character come back to life is GodModding.
Ahem:
Regeneration, noun: The act or process of an animal or plant of a organ, tissue or body part that has been lost or destroyed.
Only if used loosely can it be considered coming back to life. Rebirth or Renewal might be a better word for that.
You might want to read-up on your comic books, if you're going to quote Wolverine. Multiple writers change things all over the place for Wolverine, from randomly changing his body from ferrous, to non-ferrous. Wolverine can stand ground-zero in an atomic explosion, and his body could out-regenerate heat which vaporizes cities. It's also cited in multiple comics that his skeleton (which is, remember, indestructable) counts as part of his body for the purposes of his regeneration. So, to kill Wolverine in 75%+ of the comics, you have to destroy his skeleton. Which nuclear missles can't do, nor can the one weakness he's given in his Samurai arc (an adamantium buzzsaw, severing the spine and head) destroy his adamantium skeleton. And this is why 'thinking up ways to get around abilities in freeform combat is fruitless'. Either the person is willing to give and take, and reduce their abilities to make it possible to win for the sake of story, or they're going to just godmode you, and at that point, there's no 'getting around abilities'.
You can say 'You could use shotgun blasts to shoot a guy who keeps dodging in the air, because it's more likely to hit', but it's not. If a person really wants to ignore everything you do, he can still just as easily say 'I dodge it'.
You can say 'You could use shotgun blasts to shoot a guy who keeps dodging in the air, because it's more likely to hit', but it's not. If a person really wants to ignore everything you do, he can still just as easily say 'I dodge it'.
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Sench on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:49 am
Obviously there is no way you can beat anyone who god-mods their way out of everything. Their characters don't even have to have any powers. This discussion is about dealing with troublesome abilities used by people who do not god-mod. So how about we stop derailing it further?
Regeneration: As mentioned before, depending on the type of regeneration, ordinary damage and toxins may prove ineffective. Concussions should be fine, since they happen due to shock, not physical wounds. Specific substances that cause the body to produce "natural" chemicals may also work, whether the body attacks itself or not. Neural toxins should be effective, since EVERYTHING in the body is controlled by the brain, including regeneration. Messing that up could cause the regeneration to slow down, stop or function incorrectly.
Teleportation: This is a pain. Regardless of the source of such an ability, containment fields and/or scramblers should do the trick, but getting one is never an easy task. However, if you are being attacked, there is a way. There is always a pattern to teleportation. The basic one is to always attack from a blind spot, usually behind. The other basic pattern is to use teleportation for pressure, whether by constantly getting close or moving away. More advanced patterns vary per person, but are based off those two. So you have to anticipate your enemy's movement and go for a risky counter.
The problem here is that figuring this out and especially applying it takes a lot of intelligence and self-control. Unless you can pull off a character like that, countering a teleportation ability will effectively be god-modding on your part.
And now, a question of my own. How would you deal with "free manipulation" abilities? Doesn't really matter of what, elemental powers, something tangible or unseen forces like gravity. Normally I would suggest going for the kill despite high risk and possibly unavoidable damage, but sometimes it would just be suicide. Thoughts?
Regeneration: As mentioned before, depending on the type of regeneration, ordinary damage and toxins may prove ineffective. Concussions should be fine, since they happen due to shock, not physical wounds. Specific substances that cause the body to produce "natural" chemicals may also work, whether the body attacks itself or not. Neural toxins should be effective, since EVERYTHING in the body is controlled by the brain, including regeneration. Messing that up could cause the regeneration to slow down, stop or function incorrectly.
Teleportation: This is a pain. Regardless of the source of such an ability, containment fields and/or scramblers should do the trick, but getting one is never an easy task. However, if you are being attacked, there is a way. There is always a pattern to teleportation. The basic one is to always attack from a blind spot, usually behind. The other basic pattern is to use teleportation for pressure, whether by constantly getting close or moving away. More advanced patterns vary per person, but are based off those two. So you have to anticipate your enemy's movement and go for a risky counter.
The problem here is that figuring this out and especially applying it takes a lot of intelligence and self-control. Unless you can pull off a character like that, countering a teleportation ability will effectively be god-modding on your part.
And now, a question of my own. How would you deal with "free manipulation" abilities? Doesn't really matter of what, elemental powers, something tangible or unseen forces like gravity. Normally I would suggest going for the kill despite high risk and possibly unavoidable damage, but sometimes it would just be suicide. Thoughts?
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Whoever decided Stockholm Syndrome was romantic deserves a kick in the face.
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Sench - Member for 2 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:57 pm
Sench wrote:Obviously there is no way you can beat anyone who god-mods their way out of everything. Their characters don't even have to have any powers. This discussion is about dealing with troublesome abilities used by people who do not god-mod. So how about we stop derailing it further?
Regeneration: As mentioned before, depending on the type of regeneration, ordinary damage and toxins may prove ineffective. Concussions should be fine, since they happen due to shock, not physical wounds. Specific substances that cause the body to produce "natural" chemicals may also work, whether the body attacks itself or not. Neural toxins should be effective, since EVERYTHING in the body is controlled by the brain, including regeneration. Messing that up could cause the regeneration to slow down, stop or function incorrectly.
Teleportation: This is a pain. Regardless of the source of such an ability, containment fields and/or scramblers should do the trick, but getting one is never an easy task. However, if you are being attacked, there is a way. There is always a pattern to teleportation. The basic one is to always attack from a blind spot, usually behind. The other basic pattern is to use teleportation for pressure, whether by constantly getting close or moving away. More advanced patterns vary per person, but are based off those two. So you have to anticipate your enemy's movement and go for a risky counter.
The problem here is that figuring this out and especially applying it takes a lot of intelligence and self-control. Unless you can pull off a character like that, countering a teleportation ability will effectively be god-modding on your part.
And now, a question of my own. How would you deal with "free manipulation" abilities? Doesn't really matter of what, elemental powers, something tangible or unseen forces like gravity. Normally I would suggest going for the kill despite high risk and possibly unavoidable damage, but sometimes it would just be suicide. Thoughts?
Considering 'superpowers' isn't anything which has a consistant ruleset in their own universe, let alone other universes, why do you think they'd even work the same? 'Regeneration is controlled by the brain'? You're right. Oh wait, no, Wolverine's isn't, meaning that arguement makes no sense whatsoever. Unless someone has stated, upfront, 'It's absolute regeneration, except for silver', there's no 'beating them at their own game'. Either you've got to godmode around their abilities, or have a discussion out of character on what will get around it. In which case, you havn't 'beaten and got around it'. You simply did the mature thing as adult writers to discuss some sort of limits within character capabilities to retain the drama during combat scenes. Claiming 'this power is basically godmoding because it's so effective' is just odd. If a dude can teleport around you, throwing fireballs at will, while you're 'guy who insists on trying to stab him with a knife'? Yeah, kind of a given that you're an idiot. Like going up against a tank with a pistol, then screaming 'It's not fair! Why can't I do anything?!'
Abilities in shows, and books and fiction arn't equal. They're not intended to be. But most good writers will reign it in for the purposes of keeping drama (because 'Guy who can teleport around you and spam death' isn't interesting. It's dull). And the difference between roleplay and fiction is fiction can be overpowered, 'god-moded' and blatently out the league of everyone else because there's not another person groaning and being bored because their character can't do anything.
(Even then, 'the brain controls it, so being knocked out means it won't work'? That doesn't even make sense. Are you saying that when people go into comas, their body just stops producing cells or doing anything? Because regeneration of muscles and such is, you know...)
Abilities in shows, and books and fiction arn't equal. They're not intended to be. But most good writers will reign it in for the purposes of keeping drama (because 'Guy who can teleport around you and spam death' isn't interesting. It's dull). And the difference between roleplay and fiction is fiction can be overpowered, 'god-moded' and blatently out the league of everyone else because there's not another person groaning and being bored because their character can't do anything.
(Even then, 'the brain controls it, so being knocked out means it won't work'? That doesn't even make sense. Are you saying that when people go into comas, their body just stops producing cells or doing anything? Because regeneration of muscles and such is, you know...)
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by qbsuperstar03 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:20 pm
Ignoring Vanity Evolved for a minute, I'd like to bring up a specific kind of elemental manipulation that I've had difficulty playing against in the past: That of manipulating earth.
I find that unless your character is capable of taking to the skies, the tide of battle can quickly be turned against you as your opponent makes the battlefield itself into his ally as well as a great source of ammunition even if you can leave the ground behind. There are a few ways I can think of to get around this, most of them having to do with making the battlefield itself immune to the character's particular method of manipulation and forcing him to carry a bit of material into battle that he can work with. (Think the "bending water" that Katara carried around in Avatar: TLA, which allowed her to use her powers even when there was no water in the immediate surroundings.)
Even if you can fly, your work is still cut out for you, but the benefit to taking flight as soon as possible is that the earthbender is in the same position. The match then becomes a game of cat and mouse, as both try to force the other within range of their more punishing combinations.
I find that unless your character is capable of taking to the skies, the tide of battle can quickly be turned against you as your opponent makes the battlefield itself into his ally as well as a great source of ammunition even if you can leave the ground behind. There are a few ways I can think of to get around this, most of them having to do with making the battlefield itself immune to the character's particular method of manipulation and forcing him to carry a bit of material into battle that he can work with. (Think the "bending water" that Katara carried around in Avatar: TLA, which allowed her to use her powers even when there was no water in the immediate surroundings.)
Even if you can fly, your work is still cut out for you, but the benefit to taking flight as soon as possible is that the earthbender is in the same position. The match then becomes a game of cat and mouse, as both try to force the other within range of their more punishing combinations.
How long will he keep on fighting? How long will his pain last? Maybe only the X-Buster on his hand knows for sure...
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qbsuperstar03 - Member for 4 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:47 pm
I've recently considered making an Earth user for this reason. I don't see a reasonable way to stop someone who can shape the ground beneath your feet into a weapon, though I guess I can try to provide alternatives?
If you have an element under your control, say water, air, ice etc, form a platform of your own beneath your feet to walk on. It's not much, but every little bit helps.
If you have an element under your control, say water, air, ice etc, form a platform of your own beneath your feet to walk on. It's not much, but every little bit helps.
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Tsuyoku on Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:32 pm
Now from what I understand from Patcharoo's starting post; This topic is about combat tricks, powers, or tactics that anyone has a hard time matching in combat. In my opinion (AND I am saying this from my perspective) god-modding is the act of a real person give information to their character that the character themselves can't access, so a power or ability itself cannot really be considered god-modding. E.x. If my character is fighting an opponent who's weakness is water-based. It would be god-modding if I type a post that took full advantage of that weakness. Now if my character had figure out that the opponent's weakness was water-based (The opponent wouldn't cross a bridge over water and my character saw this and came to a conclusion that the opponent's weakness is water) then I see no real problem and don't see it as god-modding. This is my opinion of course.
Now on to regeneration. Most time regeneration is basically natural healing increased to a higher level and natural healing is issued from the brain. The most effective way to deal with regeneration is to severe the brain's connection to the body. Now here is where Vanity's argument comes in to play. Wolverine's regeneration is caused by his brain because it's his natural healing that was increased. Being knocked out just means your unconscious, it doesn't mean that your brain is shut down. In pyschology or biology you'll learn that your body does things that you are not aware of. Now there are other types of regeneration, like that of magical regeneration. These types of regeneration are done by other forces (chi, mana, etc) and could regenerate a being from only one limb. The one limb regeneration can really only happen from another force so regenerating your own body from one limb with your own magical energy is quite impossible. A effective way to deal with this type of regeneration is to halt the opponent's magical energy (using an opposing energy, destroy the source of energy, etc)
Now you have to realize that in order to use abilites or powers one must have a way to activate them. A power or ability has some sort of process or requirement that needs to be met before using it (hand signs, body tension, energy release, etc) so its not god-modding if one anticipates an attack no matter what it is. Now there are powers and abilities that are passive but there is always a sign or something that gives acknowledgment that the power or ability is there.
Now for teleportation. Teleportation is very tricky because there are a lot of different types of teleportation. Now the first thing to do when fighting a teleporter is to find out what type of teleportation their using. Now it is easier said than done because how you going to find out? When it comes to magical teleporting, a character that is able to detect the pressure of the energy or something of the sort has a good chance of matching the teleporter. When is comes to technological teleportation its a bit harder, though there is usually a discharge of some sort of energy or something. Now most times there is a sign that the teleporter is ready to teleport, so anticipating the move is a good way to survive. So most of the time the best way to combat a teleporter is to anticipate and strike a blow that will cripple the teleporter.
Now for earth manipulation. A person who can manipulate earth is quite the challenge. Most times the earth manipulator has a great advantage because they can manipulate the surroundings, so a good way to get on even grounds with them is to find a way to minimize their ability. A good way can be to fight over a body of water because it would take a longer time for the earth to rise from the water so you have time to anticipate. The most effective way to handle a manipulator is to end the fight fast or use their opposite element or energy.
I think thats mostly it. ^^
Now on to regeneration. Most time regeneration is basically natural healing increased to a higher level and natural healing is issued from the brain. The most effective way to deal with regeneration is to severe the brain's connection to the body. Now here is where Vanity's argument comes in to play. Wolverine's regeneration is caused by his brain because it's his natural healing that was increased. Being knocked out just means your unconscious, it doesn't mean that your brain is shut down. In pyschology or biology you'll learn that your body does things that you are not aware of. Now there are other types of regeneration, like that of magical regeneration. These types of regeneration are done by other forces (chi, mana, etc) and could regenerate a being from only one limb. The one limb regeneration can really only happen from another force so regenerating your own body from one limb with your own magical energy is quite impossible. A effective way to deal with this type of regeneration is to halt the opponent's magical energy (using an opposing energy, destroy the source of energy, etc)
Now you have to realize that in order to use abilites or powers one must have a way to activate them. A power or ability has some sort of process or requirement that needs to be met before using it (hand signs, body tension, energy release, etc) so its not god-modding if one anticipates an attack no matter what it is. Now there are powers and abilities that are passive but there is always a sign or something that gives acknowledgment that the power or ability is there.
Now for teleportation. Teleportation is very tricky because there are a lot of different types of teleportation. Now the first thing to do when fighting a teleporter is to find out what type of teleportation their using. Now it is easier said than done because how you going to find out? When it comes to magical teleporting, a character that is able to detect the pressure of the energy or something of the sort has a good chance of matching the teleporter. When is comes to technological teleportation its a bit harder, though there is usually a discharge of some sort of energy or something. Now most times there is a sign that the teleporter is ready to teleport, so anticipating the move is a good way to survive. So most of the time the best way to combat a teleporter is to anticipate and strike a blow that will cripple the teleporter.
Now for earth manipulation. A person who can manipulate earth is quite the challenge. Most times the earth manipulator has a great advantage because they can manipulate the surroundings, so a good way to get on even grounds with them is to find a way to minimize their ability. A good way can be to fight over a body of water because it would take a longer time for the earth to rise from the water so you have time to anticipate. The most effective way to handle a manipulator is to end the fight fast or use their opposite element or energy.
I think thats mostly it. ^^
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Tsuyoku - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Patcharoo on Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:17 pm
Tsuyoku wrote:Now from what I understand from Patcharoo's starting post; This topic is about combat tricks, powers, or tactics that anyone has a hard time matching in combat. In my opinion (AND I am saying this from my perspective) god-modding is the act of a real person give information to their character that the character themselves can't access, so a power or ability itself cannot really be considered god-modding. E.x. If my character is fighting an opponent who's weakness is water-based. It would be god-modding if I type a post that took full advantage of that weakness. Now if my character had figure out that the opponent's weakness was water-based (The opponent wouldn't cross a bridge over water and my character saw this and came to a conclusion that the opponent's weakness is water) then I see no real problem and don't see it as god-modding. This is my opinion of course.
Actually, I believe the term for using knowledge that your charcater couldn't have known is meta gaming, and is generally disallowed and frowned upon.
On the topic of Wolverine regeneration, I'd like to state now that the only reason I brought up knocking them unsconscious is because I believe you could knock out Wolverine without killing him, or you could temporarily kill him to incapitate him. Another example worth looking at who is similar is Captain Jack Harkness, who was essentially human, but kept coming to life.
I'll also add let's not confuse Immortal (which would probably be the more appropriate description of Jack's regeneration) with regeneration.
Thanks for the contribution!
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Patcharoo - Member for 3 years
Re: Text Combat. Tricks and How To Beat Them. ( )
by Vanity Evolved on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:03 pm
Tsuyoku wrote:Now from what I understand from Patcharoo's starting post; This topic is about combat tricks, powers, or tactics that anyone has a hard time matching in combat. In my opinion (AND I am saying this from my perspective) god-modding is the act of a real person give information to their character that the character themselves can't access, so a power or ability itself cannot really be considered god-modding. E.x. If my character is fighting an opponent who's weakness is water-based. It would be god-modding if I type a post that took full advantage of that weakness. Now if my character had figure out that the opponent's weakness was water-based (The opponent wouldn't cross a bridge over water and my character saw this and came to a conclusion that the opponent's weakness is water) then I see no real problem and don't see it as god-modding. This is my opinion of course.
Now on to regeneration. Most time regeneration is basically natural healing increased to a higher level and natural healing is issued from the brain. The most effective way to deal with regeneration is to severe the brain's connection to the body. Now here is where Vanity's argument comes in to play. Wolverine's regeneration is caused by his brain because it's his natural healing that was increased. Being knocked out just means your unconscious, it doesn't mean that your brain is shut down. In pyschology or biology you'll learn that your body does things that you are not aware of. Now there are other types of regeneration, like that of magical regeneration. These types of regeneration are done by other forces (chi, mana, etc) and could regenerate a being from only one limb. The one limb regeneration can really only happen from another force so regenerating your own body from one limb with your own magical energy is quite impossible. A effective way to deal with this type of regeneration is to halt the opponent's magical energy (using an opposing energy, destroy the source of energy, etc)
Now you have to realize that in order to use abilites or powers one must have a way to activate them. A power or ability has some sort of process or requirement that needs to be met before using it (hand signs, body tension, energy release, etc) so its not god-modding if one anticipates an attack no matter what it is. Now there are powers and abilities that are passive but there is always a sign or something that gives acknowledgment that the power or ability is there.
Now for teleportation. Teleportation is very tricky because there are a lot of different types of teleportation. Now the first thing to do when fighting a teleporter is to find out what type of teleportation their using. Now it is easier said than done because how you going to find out? When it comes to magical teleporting, a character that is able to detect the pressure of the energy or something of the sort has a good chance of matching the teleporter. When is comes to technological teleportation its a bit harder, though there is usually a discharge of some sort of energy or something. Now most times there is a sign that the teleporter is ready to teleport, so anticipating the move is a good way to survive. So most of the time the best way to combat a teleporter is to anticipate and strike a blow that will cripple the teleporter.
Now for earth manipulation. A person who can manipulate earth is quite the challenge. Most times the earth manipulator has a great advantage because they can manipulate the surroundings, so a good way to get on even grounds with them is to find a way to minimize their ability. A good way can be to fight over a body of water because it would take a longer time for the earth to rise from the water so you have time to anticipate. The most effective way to handle a manipulator is to end the fight fast or use their opposite element or energy.
I think thats mostly it. ^^
Admittedly, I don't tend to try and be a downer in said situations... but all of these 'tricks' seem to rely on a lot of assumptions about both a setting and a genre.
Theres only 'visible ways of using pwoers' in a setting where, you know. It says thats how they work. In a setting where wizards can teleport without a word, and you can easily and consistantly murder hundreds of people with swords and armour? Yeah, there's no 'trick' to that. Said character shouldn't be able to beat them. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a character to, like I think I mentioned before, be equal to a tank with a pistol. Claiming a princess to have a decent chance to best a guardsman in a fight in a relatively grounded setting is pretty godmodey, even if you just come out with lines like 'She kicks him in the junk'.
But compare this to another setting, such as say, wuxia. Characters are almost always, if relevant to the plot, trained in some kind of kung fu and Lightfoot. Characters are expected to be able to catch arrows, parry them, punch through walls to hit someone on the other side, jump fifty feet in the air while having epic spear duels.
There's no logic to anything like Wolverine's powers. You can't claim 'it's linked to his brain', because his brain regenerates if destroyed. All of him does. Wolverine is quite simply 'The plot says he regenerates from everything, and depending on the writer, this may or may not include DNA linked bullets, this villian's superpowered machine of doom, poisons, or death by massive crushing'.
My 'combat tips and tricks to beat them'? Find a decent partner. Discuss the kind of genre conventions you want. Stop focusing on 'powers', and talk about what kind of combat things you think would be awesome, and be fun to play out. If you want 'challenging' combat, don't play characters like Wolverine, who are impossible to defeat in setting because he's one of the biggest Mary Sue characters in fiction ever. ;D
EDIT: The problem with saying things, also, with stuff like 'Well, a character who can detect 'magical pressure' or 'Plot Power' could help to counter that...' is plain awkward. Something like that requires that you decided, at the get go, thats who you're going to play in reaction to someone who -can- do that. Kind of like waiting for someone to play a psychic character, then going 'Oh, I'm going to play a psychic null to stop you doing anything'. And it's just as much godmoding to suddenly come out with, with no warning 'Oh, that's odd... my character can feel the waves of magic, all of a sudden, and knows where he'll teleport! Seems he has a new power!' or 'His only weakness is silver? Well, this peasant didn't notice that the sword he'd been given earlier from the blacksmith wasn't a cheap sword... but it was laced with silver!'
Theres only 'visible ways of using pwoers' in a setting where, you know. It says thats how they work. In a setting where wizards can teleport without a word, and you can easily and consistantly murder hundreds of people with swords and armour? Yeah, there's no 'trick' to that. Said character shouldn't be able to beat them. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a character to, like I think I mentioned before, be equal to a tank with a pistol. Claiming a princess to have a decent chance to best a guardsman in a fight in a relatively grounded setting is pretty godmodey, even if you just come out with lines like 'She kicks him in the junk'.
But compare this to another setting, such as say, wuxia. Characters are almost always, if relevant to the plot, trained in some kind of kung fu and Lightfoot. Characters are expected to be able to catch arrows, parry them, punch through walls to hit someone on the other side, jump fifty feet in the air while having epic spear duels.
There's no logic to anything like Wolverine's powers. You can't claim 'it's linked to his brain', because his brain regenerates if destroyed. All of him does. Wolverine is quite simply 'The plot says he regenerates from everything, and depending on the writer, this may or may not include DNA linked bullets, this villian's superpowered machine of doom, poisons, or death by massive crushing'.
My 'combat tips and tricks to beat them'? Find a decent partner. Discuss the kind of genre conventions you want. Stop focusing on 'powers', and talk about what kind of combat things you think would be awesome, and be fun to play out. If you want 'challenging' combat, don't play characters like Wolverine, who are impossible to defeat in setting because he's one of the biggest Mary Sue characters in fiction ever. ;D
EDIT: The problem with saying things, also, with stuff like 'Well, a character who can detect 'magical pressure' or 'Plot Power' could help to counter that...' is plain awkward. Something like that requires that you decided, at the get go, thats who you're going to play in reaction to someone who -can- do that. Kind of like waiting for someone to play a psychic character, then going 'Oh, I'm going to play a psychic null to stop you doing anything'. And it's just as much godmoding to suddenly come out with, with no warning 'Oh, that's odd... my character can feel the waves of magic, all of a sudden, and knows where he'll teleport! Seems he has a new power!' or 'His only weakness is silver? Well, this peasant didn't notice that the sword he'd been given earlier from the blacksmith wasn't a cheap sword... but it was laced with silver!'
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Vanity Evolved - Member for 1 years
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