To me, this isn't so much an indictment on the coming generation as it is on our generation, the one raising these kids.

I still, more or less, work in a customer service job. Granted, it's giving tours, and as a guide you have a fair bit of authority to wrest over the idiots. Especially for boating tours, because when people don't listen to me they end up taking a swim. Regardless, you get the problem customers. These are often young parents with psychotic children whom they refuse to keep in line.

A anecdote, for argument's sake:

About two months ago, I was watering the gardens at our store front, and I came across a small child smashing down some of our shrubs with a ****ing tennis racket. I was very polite, because I'm pretty much pathologically polite to people I don't know - I just physically got in the way of him hitting our plants and asked him to stop. His mother got all huffy, glared at me, and snapped that I "couldn't talk to her son that way!"

Shortly thereafter she was inside, complaining to the management that I had been rude to her son and she deserved free stuff. Fortunately, I work at a small business, not a corporation, so she wasn't rewarded for being a complete jackass - Rey said he wasn't interested in having out-of-control children in our boats, and she left very angry.

Point being, is this the fault of the small child? Not particularly. The parents have to be responsible for dealing with their children.

Now, as for how most parents seem to refuse to reign their children in at all when they're in stores? I think that's a product of American consumer culture encouraging customers to behave badly... that, however, is another discussion.

The first example may very well have been substituted for something in my childhood. >>; I was quite the little Satan as a child.

I say that 'cause sometimes you can't really judge how people'll grow up. Not only that, but they seem to be set off easier in public places; whereas home is familiar, so that's where they are usually showing their good side. like It almost seems like you don't remember what it's like being a child [no offence intended]. As for the kids who eat the stuff: how many times do you think they've been able to walk around the store? Gettin' caught is a good experience; operant conditioning is one of the basics in learning. There was an incident where I took candy from a dispenser and ate it. When me mum told me they supposed to put in bags and bought I cried and thought I'd be arrested.
[Although, I'm making an assumption of the girls age here.]

Any road, this could easily fall to the same fallacy as when you know someone's watching you. [name of which I cannot recall at the moment.]

@second paragraph: that was kind'a my point [however badly worded it might've been] You get punished for something the first time and you never do it again. Children have to make mistakes before the parent can raise them. If it as you say, then it's the parents who are being too lenient. But the thing is: parents don't have jurisdiction forever. Someday, they'll be applicable to other authority, starting at least in kindergarden. It'd be harder for them to learn if the parents didn't do a good job, but it can still workout.

But like I said, this, in part [how big a part I know not], is selective memory. For every kid acting up there is a certain amount of well-behaved ones that you don't remember because they were 'normal.'

While you all have nice points, I saw this topic and I just had to come in here and say a few things. Like WaywardDreamer said, a big part of this might be the media. I mean, think about it. Look at some shows today...the ones that are broadcast on big mega channels like Nickelodeon (which used to be good...), (sadly) Cartoon Network, and Disney Channel (maybe even Disney XD....but only hate that because I loved Toon Disney).

I've even seen this in my own family. I mean, I love my family to death...but the younger ones are just annoying as hell. They run around in my room... My room. Which is filled to the brim with expensive trinkets and collectibles that I love (like my $300 scale replica of Hogwarts and the $100 nutcracker) . Not to mention the technology...like my TV, XBOX360, iPod dock, laptop. Yeah, they come over and run everywhere. I always keep the iPod dock next to me, and I'm lazy so I always keep sodas on the table (which is a sorta' wobbly antique). What do they do? They breeze through, try to squeeze between a freaking two inch gap, and nearly knock the Bose iPod dock off, which would then have been smothered in Coca-Cola! And it's not even mine! My Dad never uses it, so he lets me use his (it was a Christmas present). What else, do you ask? Well, they drive a freaking collector's edition model Greyhound bus from Ireland up my freaking $300 Hogwarts and think it's just hilarious. Needless to say, their asses were promptly kicked from my room. And (at least for them) it's not their parent's fault. Their parents raise them perfectly fine. It's the damned kids!

It doesn't even get better at Catholic school! T^T When we were in kindergarten, we settled things by seeing who could build the biggest Lego tower or with a thumbwrestling match; now when we look back on kindergarten kids now...the settle arguments by fighting WWE style. When we were in first grade, we settled arguments with tic-tack-toe or armwrestling; today they fight WWE style. Not to mention when we were little kids, we'd never dream of taking another kid's toy (pre-k). I watched them one day. They were running around with another kid's toy, and the other kid was chasing them crying. Sure, we did some nasty stuff as kids...well...I didn't for the most part. But you get the point; writing on the walls, fingerpainting our shoes and clothes, a little cussing, but we never upright fought! Finally on that note, there's kid with a few mental problems. He was really shy as well. So how do the kids greet him (this is six years olds, mind you)? They pants him. Needless to say, that kid transfered a day later.

It's called media is turning bad. And maybe another problem is underage sex. Young parents that don't know how the hell to take care of a kid, probably another big factor in all of this!

Actually, DA, my point had nothing to do with the media. When I mentioned American consumer culture I mean a very particular portion of it:

The customer is always right, even when their wrong.

Especially in the service and tourist industries, this creates monstrosities. For example, the parent I mentioned. She allowed her child to behave like a sociopath, and when I stopped him from destroying our landscaping, she thought she should be entitled to free stuff. People are encouraged to behave badly in public places because they know they'll be rewarded for it. This, no doubt, extends to children - who are often accomplices in this bad behavior, largely due to the parents. American consumer culture rewards people for behaving like petulant children in public. I don't think its any coincidence or great surprise that the habits the parents developed from this are being passed on to a new generation.

I agree it is a parent problem it also falls on the child too but the major part is a parental problem. My dad made sure if I stepped out of line it was corrected, corrected the first time, and never repeated. I've walked through stores and seen kids hitting their mothers. Something that to me is so anger invoking I don't even want to talk about it in a public place.

And for anyone no matter the age to hit a grandmother?! Nope people need to get real not just with how their parenting is working out but with their kids. Don't talk down to them but tell them in real terms what is and is not acceptable and then make it stick! Well that was good for me was it good for you? Later all

I had a uplifting moment in this debate a few weeks ago. A couple came in the store with their daughter, who immediately begun to throw a huge fit worthy of several children within about a 5 minutes. Instead of trying to argue with her while she was screeching inside the store, they left. I found that to be really polite to not have to listen to the banshee sound effect. How many parents are willing to march their kid right out of the store if they misbehave?

Anyway, that being said I have to share a bit about a freind of mine. He's the oldest, hard working, ect. Really don't know much nicer guys myself. However, both of his brothers are simply "Ass holes". (and their older than what we are discussing, 14 and 17 respectively!). I was around when the 17 year old asked if he could borrow the car to go to a Subway to get a sand which, in which my friend's mother said, "I have some things to do in town, i'll give ya ride" in which the brother snapped, saying with a extremely wicked tone "Well, I don't want to have to buy you one. Im trying to save my money! Fuck!" Which wasn't what the mother had even intended. Im usually hard to anger, but I half way considered punching him.

So for whatever reason, kids do turn out the way they do, it just kinda shocked me how different they are from my freind. He likes to work, his younger brothers are lazy (neither could hold down a simple summer job mowing lawns, and often just stare at the dishes in the sink). He likes to share his wealth with people (even though he's a part time worker lol) while the other two remain viciously selfish, refusing to contribute to birthdays even. (they had both forgotten their Mother's birthday, and when they fond out they did nothing to try to correct it)

Whats wrong with kids? Im starting to feel as if we have to start asking, "What is right with kids." which is perhaps a bit of sad state of affairs.

Anyway, wasn't sure where I was going with this, but I wonder why some kids do bad things. Is it really that hard to just be nice? I mean, we all have our bad moments sure, and we make many of them when we are younger, but aren't we usually supposed to learn and correct it?

With hopes this made some sense,

-Tig, the "Hopefully... All is Not Lost" Cat!

The problem here lies in two distinct categories. The first is the gradual reduction in people accepting that they were in the wrong, and the second is an overall decrease in discipline. Now, I know I'm not a representative of the majority, but when I was about 10 or so, my parents would let me wander around Toys 'R Us and look at whatever I wanted. They didn't have a problem, and they knew that I wouldn't steal or vandalize the property. This was because I was raised by a "No B.S." policy, and because my parents chose to instill generally good values in me as a child. I would have to ask my parents at the store if I wanted any candy in the first place.

Look at kids these days. Whenever I'm at the store buying groceries, I see brats that try to get their own way. And half the time, the parents don't even bother. In the event of any vandalism, property damage, theft, etc., parents act like their child is the holiest angel on the damn planet. Why? The parents don't want to believe that their child is capable and willing of doing something like that. I can imagine how terrible it is to believe that your child would be willing to commit theft, vandalize property, etc. Kids will be kids, but if you let them run unrestrained, there will be serious repercussions on both the parts of the children and the parent.

I see this all the time in high school. The cost of the parents' actions can be seen in the very fact that the kids refuse to assume responsibility for their failures or bad deeds. They gain the impression that "it's all right," or "it's never my fault."

R.I.P. Society

I see this pretty much every other day in my 14 year old (soon to be 15) little brother. I remember my rebellious phase taking place around then, but I'm told I wasn't this bad. He takes things from other people seemingly just for the thrill of it...he's even "borrowed" Mom's Apple laptop and iPod on multiple occasions, to say nothing of the time he actually lifted cards from a gaming shop. And don't even get me started on the people he considers friends...

I think it's the fault of those that watch over the kids, yes. However, I think it's more because we're (yes, I'm including myself in this) all too willing to give them a slap on the wrist and think that they've learned their lesson. Of course, I rarely hit my brother anymore, but maybe that's just because he's bigger than me and he has a habit of putting holes in the drywall when he's mad.

When I was your age......

It's interesting I am commenting here because to be honest when I go out to Wal-Mart with my folks I rarely see kids pitching fits..I cannot remember the last time that I saw a kid pitching a fit. I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, it's just that I thought about this while reading this thread and realized this truth, but in anycase, I think I know the reason why.

On the subject of a girl hitting her grandmother, that is atrocious. Let me take a moment to explain what the chain of events would be if I were to attempt something like that.

1.My grandmother would have beat my ass, then my grandfather.
2. My grandmother would have told my mother and she would have beat my ass when I got home.
3. My mother would have told my father when he got home and he would have beat my ass.

The moral of this story is..you only screwed up once at my house because my parents and grandparents and my uncle would, indeed, whoop my ass if I crossed a line. They would not have whooped me for every little thing, but there was a line and if you crossed the line, you were screwed and,the thing was, you knew you were screwed.

Now, I understand that most people frown upon corporal punishment these days, but this coming from a person that has received spankings..I have nothing against my parents for doing it, not in the slightest, I appreciate the fact that they would go to that length to make sure I understand what was right and wrong. Not to say that I am a perfect child, far from it, I talk back to my mother, take her for granted, and my father and I regret that, I really do. However, I did not pitch fits in the store cause I knew that divine punishment would crash down on my sorry self afterward.

Now, I have three younger brothers. Sixteen, Thirteen and Ten. They got their butts whooped and they talk back, but they would never NEVER curse at my mother, I would beat their ass myself { I'm 21}. My brothers are very well behaved, they have spats with mom sometimes, but that is unavoidable, my sixteen year old brother is a flippin genius, he studies hard, and is disciplined. My youngest brothers are polite and well behaved. Why are they seemingly different from the rest of the world, because of my parents, they took the time to make it plain what was allowed and not allowed and they would cause us pain if they had to and it worked, I believe. Now, the question remains is will I have the guts to do what they did when it is my turn to raise a kid.

Alright, before we go any further, I just want to say I'm not some grumpy old man complaining about Rock 'N Roll and how much sex teens are having.

Is it wrong that very mental image was the FIRST thing that popped into my head when I saw this topic's title? I even imagined the rocking chair and the swinging of a little cane, too. >XD

Seriously, though, I'm inclined to agree with just about everyone here. I'm not providing any personal examples of my own, but...yes, the standards and qualities of child rearing over the past generation has VERY noticeably gone down since I was a child (I'm 24 myself...or I will be come this Saturday).

I have to admit though...this is a good reason right here that reinforces my decision I'm liking NOT going to be having any children.

Don't get me wrong--it's not that I'm lazy, and don't want to have to deal with raising a child (although that is PART of the reason...the issue of having to deal with a whiny little snot nosed brat out in public that I have to assume responsibility for is quite actively averted if said snot nosed brat doesn't exist in the first place)....but primarily my reason for not wanting children is simply because at this point in my life I am not financially secure to afford to have any, and I am not willing to bring a child into this world with all the problems that he or she is going to inherit upon growing up (and I doubt that it will get better in my life time).

I also have to admit...I don't particularly care for kids, either. I mean, they're cute, yes, but...I also find kids (especially little kids) far more annoying than adorable.

Oddly, people tell me I'm great with kids and damn near everybody tells me that, having observing me handle children, that I'd be an excellent father. ...I'm personally not too sure about that...

Haha, Drake I have to point that almost all people feel that way before becoming a parent :) I get worried when someone considers them self good for the job of parenthood.. they haven't thought it through lol.

In continuation of this thread, I have good news! A family came into the store with some of the politest little ones I'd ever met. I ended up sneaking off to the back to dig into my stash (I store candy back there >.>... and I got one at home too >.>) and was THANKED WITH NO PRODDING BY THE PARENTS! It was lovely :)

Because I am feeling lethargic right now, I will not articulate my complex opinion on the matter. Instead, I blame Benjamin Spock.

Is it so wrong that I find this topic absolutely hilarious? ^.^''

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the points that have been made here, it just seems like the older generation is always condescending the younger one. Always. When I was a kid I witnessed many older people going on and on about how our young generation is so bad, misbehaved, atrocious. The clothes that we wore/wear are ridiculous to them. The music that we listened/listen to is inappropriate. The activities that we took part in were punishable. The way we treated our elders was never respectful enough.

Now here we are, older and wiser, condemning the youngsters like our parents and grandparents have done to us. In fact, some of the older generation is continuing to do it even now.

How a child behaves does lie heavily on the shoulders of the parents/guardians but really... a child will be a child. They are still learning and they will keep learning. Some simply happen to have a better sense of morale instilled within them. There are good kids and bad kids same as there are good adults and bad adults. Good older folks who are fun to chat with and bad ones who can make even the brightest of days seem like the apocalypse is upon us. It's not just the "new generation" that is so horrendously misbehaved. There are bad apples to be found in each generation dating back thousands of years. It's just the way the world turns.

Tigeress wrote:In continuation of this thread, I have good news! A family came into the store with some of the politest little ones I'd ever met. I ended up sneaking off to the back to dig into my stash (I store candy back there >.>... and I got one at home too >.>) and was THANKED WITH NO PRODDING BY THE PARENTS! It was lovely :)

That's fantastic! I'm glad that you got to have that experience :)

The one common experience for all these posters and children is : consistency. Kids have to know where the boundaries are and have to know if they cross a line they will be swiftly punished. I think also is where the family dynamics lie. I was the oldest, so I was always watching over my brothers, and taking responsibility for what they did. I was a huge part of disciplining them if my father wasn't home. Don't even get my started on my mother >.> Horrible parenting skills.

Kids need structure to grow up balanced, though there is of course the odd one out like sociopaths lol. It very much depends on the person as well. I grew up knowing and respecting the boundaries, where my brother pushed the boundaries as much as possible. And my mother let him get away with it, so he was a heathen when my father wasn't home. Kids aren't stupid. They know when to behave in the presence of someone and when they can get away with things.

And we only had very basic TV and lived on a farm. No watching TV all day, and getting up every day at 7 to go out and work in the woods, pulling and hauling trees and clearing land, setting up fences, stringing wire, cleaning stalls and the chicken coop, pulling weeds...we were too freakin tired at the end of the day to try and do any mischief. XD

Okay. My turn. I agree with you all that kids today are heathens.

And then I remember when I was a kid.

And I wince. Several times. Dramatically.

Let me give you an example:

At age six, I beat up a neighborhood sixth grader.
In kindergarten I was suspended the very first day for fighting.

Growing up, my best friend and I regularly got into fist fights, which as long as it didn't spread, were ignored by pretty much everybody. The general consensus was that while smart, I lacked discipline, humility, social skills, and manners.

While I never once shoplifted, threw a fit in public, or hit my parents, I was still a heathen a good majority of the time, because I lived for fighting.

My family however, is a bunch of rag tag put em up fighters. We enjoy arguments, fist fights, guns, and physical violence. So that was who I was.

However, I was generally considered an angel, once I stopped the whole fighting at school thing.

The point is that young children are often still pushing their limits and trying to find them. Teenagers are often pushing their limits and trying to prove how very grown up they are. This is, sadly, a part of life.

Just like parents who don't discipline their children will shortly come to regret it.

But I'm not too worried. Life has a tendency to bite those ill prepared, ill tempered and ill behaved little brats right where it hurts the most, and for the most part they'll become somewhat average citizens in their behavior, minus a few shining examples.

I admit, I've yet to have a problem with kids throwing a fit anywhere where I worked at. But I tend to work or bosses who have a none of this nonsense policy and refuse to give people things for free just because.

I watched in a grocery store I worked at as a lady attempted to return rancid meat. The customer handed the office worker her receipt and the meat. The officer worker checked it, smiled politely and told her that he was sorry, but she had bought it before the expiration date, and it was now after the expiration date. He couldn't help her.

She threw a fit worthy of a two year old wanting candy. We were, at the time, having our monthly surprise check to make sure we checked IDs. Which meant a cop was in the line.

I am happy to announce she was arrested for disturbing the peace.

And I can guarantee she never did it again.

You can see why I firmly believe that one day, all the little brats will grow up to become real boys and girls and not screaming banshees from beyond. Some just take longer than others.