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Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

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Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:30 pm

Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educational Reform

Ylanne Sorrows

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Originally published at Gather and Fugitive Seeking Truth. If you can, comment on my blog as well.

Note: Corrections were made after a note from Carole Reynolds.

On October 30, 2009, police in Ft. Smith, Arkansas responded to a call from Beard Elementary about a “problem juvenile”. They arrived to find a classroom in disarray, two teachers pinning down a boy, and they arrested student Zakhqurey Price, taking him out of school in handcuffs and transporting him to the juvenile detention center, where he was booked on charges of second degree battery, a Class D felony under Arkansas criminal statutes.

What makes this story strange and newsworthy are the rest of the facts: Zakhqurey Price has autism, obsessive-compulsive disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, ADHD, and minor mental retardation (with an IQ of 68, with normal range being between 90 and 110, 70 being the cutoff for ‘mental retardation’). All of these diagnoses were made and confirmed by several different professionals. His mother is also learning disabled, and Zakh has three brothers and a sister who are on the spectrum as well.

After spending two and a half years in an institution where Carole alleges mistreatment, Zakh was enrolled in this school on August 9, 2009 and began on August 18, without an IEP or appropriate behavioral supports in place. Before the school year, Carole Reynolds, his grandmother, tried to meet with administrators several times about implementing an IEP, but they refused to do so before school started. She requested several accommodations, including a full time aide, but all requests were denied. (At one point, Carole decided to home school Zakh, but a local judge, whose name I forget, issued a court order that Zakh attend Beard Elementary).

She specifically told school officials how to prevent meltdowns and what to do if one occurs, but they blatantly ignored her, calling the police on three occasions, the last resulting in this bizarre case. Zakh had been suspended several times from school for behavioral issues. They were never addressed in a supportive or therapeutic manner from the school. Two weeks before the arrest, Carole attended an IEP meeting in which the school agreed with some of her suggestions and guidelines, but did not complete a formal behavior plan, or implement any of the suggestions.

Initially, Zakh was placed in a classroom with twenty-eight typical students, with no supports in place whatsoever. At the time of this incident, on October 30, Zakh was in a small classroom with eight ED students, a male teacher, and an older woman teacher. Because of his OCD, he became frustrated because the teacher erased extra-credit spelling words too quickly, and Zakh went into meltdown. The male teacher evacuated the other eight students from the classroom, and Zakh threw around some books. For a half hour, the teachers watched him, and then the principal, Pamela Siebenmorgan, and his classroom teacher Jan Honeycutt, cornered Zakh and grabbed him in an unspecified manner to restrain him, just as he had finally begun to calm down. Those of you familiar with autism know that any physical contact will only exacerbate an autistic meltdown, because of sensory issues. Zakh lashed out in fear, pain, and confusion, pushing Mrs. Honeycutt (she fell into a bookcase) and kicking Mrs. Siebenmorgan once.

Both teachers complained of pain, but no visible injuries, whereas on Zakh, the arrest report clearly documents a skinned knee. Neither teacher was transported to the hospital, given stitches, or given leave from work. According to Arkansas statutes (§ 5-13-202, to be exact), battery in the second degree requires intentionally, purposefully, knowingly causing physical injury to another person (teachers and school employees are specifically referenced). Zakhqurey did not intentionally, purposefully, or knowingly cause physical injury to the teachers. And if there really was any physical injury, it was minor in the way accidentally walking into the thin side of a door leaves a painful bruise is minor.

There is a similar case in the fiction novel The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon, when the autistic narrator is touched by a policeman, and then lashes out, hitting the policeman, in the same way that Zakh lashed out when grabbed by the two teachers. Taken to the station, he is asked by another policeman, “Did you hit the policeman?” and he responds, “Yes,” because autistics think literally and are honest. He is then asked, “Did you mean to hurt the policeman?”, and he says “No.” Yes, he hit the policeman, but he never intended to hurt the policeman – he wanted to escape the sudden sensory input. Same with Zakh.

What does this show? This case is another sad case in point of the unfortunate decline in special education across America. While we promote equal opportunity and awareness of disabilities, we neglect to give our teachers appropriate training on interaction with students with learning differences. While we give lip service to better accommodations for students with disabilities, we don’t know how to serve these members of our communities.

It is true that some special needs students do need to be placed in separate schools or adjunct classrooms dedicated to special education; however, there are many students on the autism spectrum who can and should be placed in mainstream classrooms, full-time or part-time as appropriate, with proper and necessary support systems. That’s why an IEP, individualized education plan, is mandated under federal law.

And no matter where you have placed a special needs student, it is our moral and legal obligation to provide him with an appropriate education, and equal opportunity to learn and succeed. Equal opportunity does not necessarily mean equal curriculum, or equal teaching style, or equal services and time invested. There are people who say that we are pandering to the lowest denominator in our public schools, that we slow down the classroom to the pace of the slowest learning student. There are others who say that gifted programs are elitist and detrimental to students without the gifted label. To these, I say each and every student, gifted, mainstream, or special education, needs to be provided with an appropriate level of education.

This is not what Fort Smith school district has done. In fact, I have stumbled across information suggesting that this particular school district has a history of providing poor supports if any to special needs students and those with disabilities. That is appalling. A onetime incident like this one is in itself awful and a terrible representation of our failure to educate our children, but repeated and similar incidents suggest a pattern of disturbing conduct and policies. (For those of you who, like me, are concerned about reliable sources and citations, I honestly don’t remember where this information came from, but there were exactly three corroborating sources).

It is time that our nation steps up to defend the rights of all students to a free and appropriate public education (FAPE). It is time that we take a moral stand, a clear stand, on this issue so that cases like this one do not happen again. Legislation currently in review in the US Congress is demonstrative of the beginning of a wave of action – HR4247, the Prevent Harmful Restraint and Seclusion in Schools Act, an act “to prevent and reduce the use of physical restraint and seclusion in schools, and for other purposes”, is a bipartisan piece of legislation being considered in the House and Senate. The two primary sponsors are George Miller (D – CA) and Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R – WA), and this legislation has also been sponsored by key disability organizations, educational organizations, and the National Teachers Union.

So I’ve been talking about taking action. What can you do? Send letters and postcards to the prosecutor, judge, and school officials in Arkansas urging them to drop charges. Call the national news stations (I did so this week, so the more people who call, the more interest they might take in the story) about Zakh Price. Call your legislators, your US Representatives and Senators, and urge them to support HR4247 so that there won’t be another Zakh Price. HR4247 can’t be passed in time to help Zakh, but it can be passed so that generations of students with disabilities can avoid unfortunate situations.

What else can you do? Begin discussions in your community about how your schools can better serve all students. Spread awareness of these problems – Zakh’s story is not the only incident of disregard for special needs students’ rights. Blog about it. Work with local lawmakers and schools to implement better policies directed toward educational reform. God only knows our country needs it.

Works Referenced


Note: You can also google “Zakhqurey Price” and you will find upwards of 150 blog posts, but almost no news coverage. These are the sites which I read before writing this article. There may be others where I got some information, but if they are not included and you know which site contains the information, simply send me a link and I will add it to this page. I also chose not to format these citations in proper and exact MLA, Turabian, or APA, because I didn’t want to look up the proper format; however I provided the information typically included in a citation where available.

Fort Smith Police Department Arrest Report, dated 2 November 2009, retrieved 27 January 2010 from Rescue Post

Prevent Harmful Restraint and Seclusion in Schools Act full text

Caraballo, Amy. Autism Women’s Network. “Zakhqurey Price and the Danger of Incarcerating Our Youth”, dated 7 January 2010, retrieved 8 January 2010.

Debbaudt, Dennis. Autism, Advocates and Law Enforcement Professionals: Recognizing and Reducing Risk Situations for People With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Philadelphia: Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 2001.

Ditz, Liz. I Speak of Dreams. “Update on Zakhquery Price’s Case: ASAN Action Alert”, dated 6 January 2010, retrieved 8 January 2010.

Emily. A Life Less Ordinary. “Zakhqurey (Zakh) Price and the system.”, dated 13 January 2010, retrieved 14 January 2010.

Hansen, Robin. The Examiner. “Fifth grade autistic boy charged with a felony”, dated 30 December 2009, retrieved 10 January 2010.

Mitchell, Jonathan. Autism Gadfly. “Zakhqurey Price: More inconsistencies from Ari Ne’eman?”, dated 6 January 2010, retrieved 17 January 2010.

Reynolds, Carole and Vince Steele. “The Zakh Appeal”.

Rosenberg, Squid D’Artagno. Squidalicious. “Please Help Zakhqurey Price, Please Help Him Now”, dated 10 January 2010, retrieved 30 January 2010.

Stagliano, Kim. Age of Autism. “Why Would a Principal Call the Police to Arrest a Special Needs 11 Year Old?”, dated 16 January 2010, retrieved 30 January 2010.

The Autism News. “11 year old Autistic boy, IQ of 68, charged with Felonious Assault”, dated 10 January 2010, retrieved 30 January 2010.

The New Republic. “Zakh Price: Cry Shame!”, dated 10 January 2010, retrieved 30 January 2010.

Wombles, Kimberly. Respect for Infinite Diversity. “Updating Zakh Price Coverage Across the Blogosphere”, updated 16 January 2010, retrieved 30 January 2010.




TAGS:
autism, autism spectrum disorders, OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, ODD, oppositional defiant disorder, ADHD, attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity, learning difference, learning disabled, school, education, educational reform, educators, teachers, autistics, students, special education, special needs, special needs kids, special needs students, education reform, restraint and seclusion, Prevent Harmful Restraint and Seclusion in Schools Act, ASAN, Ari Ne'eman, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, Zakh Price, Zakhqurey Price, Carole Reynolds, Kim Wombles, restraint, seclusion, law enforcement, crime, criminals, criminal charges, court, school to prison pipeline, autism and criminal justice, autism and criminal justice issues, Ylanne, Ylanne Sorrows
Last edited by Ylanne on Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:43 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Wow. I thought it was bad when I was a kid: Being restrained by teachers (with at least one documented instance of barely missing another student's jawline with a kick), sometimes being denied lunch because of misbehavior that I failed to atone for, etc. This was maybe 10-15 years ago in Wisconsin. I even went so far once as to goad my father into hitting me to draw attention to the sort of treatment I was receiving at home, and earned a free trip to the police station for it.

But incarceration, especially for a kid as young and troubled as this one is, is over the line. Call me biased, but from what I hear, confinement of any sort is hard to deal with. I've asked my two brothers about their experiences with being assigned to mental hospitals, and some of the stories they've told aren't exactly appropriate to retell here. But to imagine what this is going to do to a kid as young, impressionable, and with such a short fuse as this kid is definitely going to make me lose sleep tonight.

This is another horrifying example of what happens when officials blindly follow protocol and fail to recognize that no one set of rules can apply equally to everyone. At best, this should be put down as a crime of passion (at least if I understand the term correctly to mean a criminal act performed when the perpetrator's judgment is impaired due to intense emotional stress), but to do what they did to such a young and disturbed child is almost unthinkable.

I get the feeling that they think they're being "tough on crime" and all that, but they are way off the mark. If they even have good mental institutions down there, I would suggest he be moved to one of them instead of the slammer, as the former will help the child cope with the root of the problem in place of a glorified version of a time-out. Given what's happened so far, it sounds like it's too late for the poster child of this movement (and mark my words when I say that this kid is going to be as much of a handful later in life as he is now), but there's got to be some other children going through the same thing.

Again, I may be slightly biased, being on the autism spectrum myself, but for their sake, please support this bill.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Skallagrim on Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:11 am

It's sad when a child doesn't get the required help needed in school. A mental institution isn't needed, an IEP and a case worker who is dedicated to he and his needs as well a special needs teacher or teachers in the school system. If they cannot afford it then a smaller site should be established for special needs kids to get the education by teachers who are trained to handle such children and provide an education as best as they can.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:12 am

Thanks for the post, Andrew. :) I too am biased: I'm on the autism spectrum, and I'm a member of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, which ranks me as very biased in the autism community.

Yes, it wasn't right for him to kick a teacher. But quite frankly, the school committed numerous crimes against him by refusing him any accommodations - if accommodations had been in place, this would never have happened. I have spoken with his grandmother, and she attests to his good behavior in general. These teachers provoked his meltdowns and exacerbated them when they occurred. Please share the page with other people, too.

And to donate to the legal fund, because the family doesn't have any money (four autistic children, and no money to continue therapies), the Zakh Appeal website.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Irish Wolf on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:32 pm

So, shall we break out the torches and pitchforks? I think we've found a few monsters to chase into windmills and then set the place on fire.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby True_Grave on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:47 pm

I think the battery charge should be dropped. A kid with that many disorders needed proper supports and a program to keep him and the other students around him safe. The school did nothing, and I don't believe Zakh should pay for something that is not his fault. I can only hope better things can be done for Zakh and kids like him in the future. Autism is a disease (not trying to be offensive to those who have it) that needs plenty of people cooperating to treat. Hopefully, this story will inspire others to take better action.

This is what I put in a PM to Ylanne when she messaged me about it, but that's not all I have to say. I myself do not have OCD, mental retardation, autism, or any other disorder. But I was born premature, and was very close to at least getting mental retardation. Because of that, I look at the retarded (again, not trying to be offensive. I'm just not going to sugarcoat it with political correctness) children and adults, and think that that could have been me. Anybody who has a condition that they cannot control needs help from qualified officials, not thrown in the slammer like a common criminal. It's a miscarriage of justice.


I myself am personally appalled by the behavior of not just the staff of the school, but also the police department. They come into contact when many people who are dependent on substances, be they medication or illegal drugs. Because of this, they should know better than anyone that people will sometimes act in ways they can't control. If we can monitor serial killers for this, why can't we monitor autistic children or adults? It all reeks of a failure to adapt, and it's inexcusable. That's my say on the matter.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby St.Jimmy on Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:38 pm

Hey Ylanne. I got your PM and headed over here to read this; I think it's disgusting. I don't think I can do much personally about this particular issue to be honest, because I'm in the UK, but I thought I'd post here anyway. I have mild OCD myself, nothing much, but enough to give me panic attacks and stuff, and this kid has obviously got it a thousand times worse than me along with other disorders and to think of him being treated like that as a result of the school not being able or willing to cope with his issues just highlights how disgusting their behaviour was towards him. The family really were given no other alternative - homeschooling was denied and the school clearly wasn't prepared to listen, so the fact that the situation ended up like this is their fault and not his. He's eleven years old, for God's sake, and he was panicking and distressed and the fact that they're charging him with battery for that is just ridiculous. He's eleven. They need to let him go, find him a school more willing to listen and let him have the help he needs - I don't think he needs to be put in a mental institution or anything, but they just need to give him some support within school so he can get through his lessons without this happening again. And if it does, they need to know how to deal with it properly.

I think that this situation spiralled out of hand through no fault of the boy or his family, and the investigation should really be focussed on the school, since they obviously can't cope with children with such disorders. More staff need to be employed who know how to properly deal with incidents like this involving children with such problems, and the school should have been prepared to listen to begin with, because then this situation might have been avoided from the start. I hope everything works out for him - there's no way he deserves to be in prison; it wasn't his fault.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby WingBlade on Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:43 am

I agree that this legal action is really stupid. The fact that a documented case, one that was ignored, was left this long without direct intervention is just wrong. I'm the father of a developmentally disabled child, and he is currently in school. His first year was pretty bad, but that was with an IEP in place. He also has a full-time aid at school. He's been in this situation for two years of head-start and this year of kindergarten. Next year he might not even need an aide or time out of the main classroom. This brings me to another point, that addressing these problems early in life prevents alot of problems later on. Don't hold me to this, but theoretically dealing with the issue before lots of chemical imbalances and physical changes that come with teenage years just seems easier. Some people, left without help develop into a socially "unacceptable" mess. Or so they are judged. I have to agree, children need more available resources to help with their special needs.

The only problem is that most of these programs are state funded. You need to get the programs funded on a federal level. Because most states aren't even able to pay all of their employees this year. Here in Illinois, many schools are worried about budget cuts, lay-offs, and out right closing down.

It almost leaves you unhopeful, but I'll share a tid-bit of info with you. The amount of special education teachers training or going to school is decreasing. Has been steadily for the last 30 years, or at least that's what I found out for a report in economics. While this is going on, the need for those teachers increases every year. This decline in teachers for special needs was so large, that schools are allowing short training programs to take up for years of experience and instruction. Not saying that these people trained this way are unequipped, but they aren't as prepared as those graduating with 4 years experience and learned knowledge.

Sadly there is no easy answer, but maybe this happening with bring a new focus on this problem. If not, our future will look pretty bleak.

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Situations like this are ridiculous and sad in every possible way. Plain and simple, this should not have happened. The school had every opportunity to prevent the situation and it didn't. Now this poor boy has suffered the consequences of others' irresponsible actions. It's certainly not the only time things like this have occurred, either. I have one friend who was given an IEP (I can't remember exactly what she was, possibly PDD-NOS, but I'm not sure) when she was growing up, and they did put her in a special education program I believe, but her overall experiences were horrible.

When I hear things like this, I can only think about how incredibly lucky I was to have attended public schools which might have had their problems, but accommodating students with IEPs was not one of them. We had disabled students with aids in our classrooms, and there were never any problems with this. In fact, I think it was helpful. They stressed tolerance and understanding of those different from ourselves from an early age. Nobody insulted or mistreated children with disabilities because if they did, they would have some very disgruntled students and teachers on their case immediately.

On the flip side, my elementary school had an amazing gifted program. I had an IEP since the second grade. I honestly don't know whether I would be the person I am today without it. Sure, I would have kept reading. That was in my nature. Still, it amazes me when we study terms in my college literature class that I learned when I was in second or third grade. It amazes me that I was reading stories in class then that I would later read in middle school, high school, and even college. I'm glad for it. I could handle it easily. By the time I got to middle school, my ability to cope with challenges had begun to slip; I had gotten very, very sick one year, and I struggled for the rest of the time I was in that school. You know what they did? They changed my IEP by the time I went to high school, and I got help there.

I think it's such a horrible shame when kids aren't allowed to work on the level they need to work on, be it for disability or gifts. It isn't elitism. It's a fact of life. Everyone moves at different paces, and every child should get what he or she needs to foster their learning and growth.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:50 pm

Marionette wrote:Situations like this are ridiculous and sad in every possible way. Plain and simple, this should not have happened. The school had every opportunity to prevent the situation and it didn't. Now this poor boy has suffered the consequences of others' irresponsible actions. It's certainly not the only time things like this have occurred, either. I have one friend who was given an IEP (I can't remember exactly what she was, possibly PDD-NOS, but I'm not sure) when she was growing up, and they did put her in a special education program I believe, but her overall experiences were horrible.

When I hear things like this, I can only think about how incredibly lucky I was to have attended public schools which might have had their problems, but accommodating students with IEPs was not one of them. We had disabled students with aids in our classrooms, and there were never any problems with this. In fact, I think it was helpful. They stressed tolerance and understanding of those different from ourselves from an early age. Nobody insulted or mistreated children with disabilities because if they did, they would have some very disgruntled students and teachers on their case immediately.

On the flip side, my elementary school had an amazing gifted program. I had an IEP since the second grade. I honestly don't know whether I would be the person I am today without it. Sure, I would have kept reading. That was in my nature. Still, it amazes me when we study terms in my college literature class that I learned when I was in second or third grade. It amazes me that I was reading stories in class then that I would later read in middle school, high school, and even college. I'm glad for it. I could handle it easily. By the time I got to middle school, my ability to cope with challenges had begun to slip; I had gotten very, very sick one year, and I struggled for the rest of the time I was in that school. You know what they did? They changed my IEP by the time I went to high school, and I got help there.

I think it's such a horrible shame when kids aren't allowed to work on the level they need to work on, be it for disability or gifts. It isn't elitism. It's a fact of life. Everyone moves at different paces, and every child should get what he or she needs to foster their learning and growth.


I definitely agree with everything you've said, Marionette. I am twice exceptional, which means I am gifted AND I have Asperger's Syndrome. Twice exceptional students can be gifted and ADHD, or gifted and bipolar, or gifted and dyslexic, or any number of such challenges or diagnoses. For me, I needed a very specific type of help, and mostly, that was a supportive environment, where my teachers actually cared about me and wanted to do everything to see me succeed. When I was in elementary school, I read dozens of the classics, in their original unabridged text. When I made it to high school, we would study vocabulary words that I had learned years ago through reading - I average a book a day.

But it is children with disabilities, gifted children, and twice exceptional children who suffer the most at the hands of our failing public school system. If you don't fit into the box of Average Student, then we won't bother to provide you with the level of education that you need, or we will give lip service to doing it and yet have absolutely no clue whatsoever what the heck we're doing with you. And that's the sad truth. Here, such a situation has been blown so out of proportion that it is sickening to hear about it. (Zakh's first court appearance was last month on January 12, and his next is scheduled for April 13). The school is still pressing charges. The prosecutor is proceeding with the case. And that is despicable, in my book.

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Ylanne, I got your PM and linked it to some other people. I'll have to say I am apalled to see what is going on with this child. Being charged for battery because he went into crisis is not only wrong, but it's an abomination of the Criminal Justice system. I too am located on the Autism spectrum, I have aspergers, though I do well to overcome and keep it under wraps, being Engaged, planning to start a home, preparing for a career in law enforcement. I have to agree that this child needs not only an IEP, placement in a mental institution would perhaps be much too extreme. What I think is that this child should be enrolled in a Residential treatment facility.

I spent two years of my life in a residential facility, and I will say with 24/7 support, access to regular therapy, teachers trained to deal with situations. It has changed my life, perhaps a resource for the child and his grandmother if they can get over this legal battle would be enrollment in a Residential School.

There is one based out of Chicago that has changed my life. I was on a very similiar warpath this child is going down. The Orthogenic school would do the child wonders.

Zakh has my sympathy, and I wish his family well on the uphill legal battle ahead.
Nip it in the bud.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MoonMan on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:44 am

Can I just say regardless of what disabilities he has, he should still have consequences for his actions. He still physically hit teachers, to what ever degree, and that is still classed as assault.

Also, can I quote? Thanks.

"Zakhqurey did not intentionally, purposefully, or knowingly cause physical injury to the teachers.".

He's disabled. Not insane.
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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:10 am

MoonMan wrote:Can I just say regardless of what disabilities he has, he should still have consequences for his actions. He still physically hit teachers, to what ever degree, and that is still classed as assault.

Also, can I quote? Thanks.

"Zakhqurey did not intentionally, purposefully, or knowingly cause physical injury to the teachers.".

He's disabled. Not insane.


Regardless of whether a student is disabled or not, shoving one teacher and kicking the other should be punished appropriately. Punishment should fit the crime. You wouldn't sentence someone to ten years for pickpocketing. You wouldn't sentence someone to five years for murder. In this case, my opinion is that Zakhqurey should be suspended for several days. It makes sense. The punishment fits the crime. Yes, you should be held accountable for your actions, but in a manner that is APPROPRIATE. Criminal charges that might be pressed on someone who brings a knife to school and attacks someone (same charge could be applicable), are way out of hand. That's overkill. An appropriate punishment should be something on the order of suspension for several days.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MoonMan on Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:31 pm

The fact of the matter is, he assaulted people. That is a crime. To what ever extent it is, hitting a person is assault. It is an offense. When you are assaulted, you phone the police.

Also, your comparison of crimes that are heinous in comparison to this is ridiculous. Murdering someone or bringing a knife to a school are on a completely different level.

I like you Ylanne, you know this, but your bias is getting in the way of your arguments.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Everyone's bias gets in the way of all their arguments.

But seriously: he's eleven. Autistic or not, he's eleven and he kicked someone once, and pushed someone once. If your eleven your old son/daughter kicks or shoves his/her brother or sister, that's not a crime. That's not assault.

The criminal statutes in Arkansas specifically state that the act must be committed with the intent to harm another person, the knowledge that the act will harm the other person, and/or with the purpose of harming another person. That's not the same thing. When these two teachers CORNERED the kid and then GRABBED him, he lashed out in fear and self-defense. NOT as an assault with the purpose, intent, or knowledge that he was harming someone else. If anything, the TEACHERS are guilty of assault - they went for the kid with the purpose, intent, or knowledge that cornering and grabbing someone would harm him.

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I have to agree with Ylanne here. Let me quote a paragraph from a law office.

In many assault cases the defendant may not have intended to cause serious physical harm at all, or was acting in self defense. In these cases charges may be amended to reflect what really happened, and may ultimately be reduced. For example, if a violent action was in self-defense, that may operate as a complete defense against a Defendant, resulting in an acquittal by a Judge or Jury, or even in the charges being ultimately dismissed.


Here's another paragraph from this site.

A person who is assaulted may use such reasonable force as may be necessary, or which at the time reasonably appears to be necessary, to protect himself or herself from bodily harm. An act of self-defense must ordinarily be proportionate to the threat. That is, if you believe a person is going to spit on you, depending upon the context it may be reasonable to push the person away, but it would not be reasonable to hit the person with a baseball bat.


The key here is at the time reasonably appears to be necessary. To Zakh, who was in a meltdown, the teachers' actions were very threatening. It's well-established that suddenly touching an autistic child in a meltdown can cause them to lash out in fear and injure themselves and others. You may not equate it with insanity, but at that time, the child really cannot control himself until he calms down. It's not an excuse. This happened because the teachers didn't know what they were doing. They should have known what they were doing because of Zakh's need for an IEP and his grandmother's repeated attempts to get the school to accommodate his situation.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MoonMan on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:11 pm

1. The teacher's should have known of the situation,

2. Speaking as someone who used to suffer from what can only be described as "meltdowns" though, I'd put it further and say it's closer to Chernobyl, the child would still have been completely lucid during his episode. Even if his moves were to defend himself, the fact of the matter is, he still openly hit his teachers.

3. He's eleven. Everyone at that age knows that throwing your fists and feet around when people are in close proximity will hurt them. That's one of those things you learn in life, and from your parents. Now before you begin foaming at the mouth and begin typing "disablities" and what not, I'll tell you this: My sister has learning difficulties, though they aren't at such extremes that she needs "extra care" if you know what I mean. Anyways, when we were young she went to a lot of things for people disablities. They were basically things like where others kids could hang out and meet others like them, parents could meet, yadda yadda yadda. I know about disabilities and all that, and I know that child should have known full well the consequences of his actions. If he did not, then there is more than just his disabilities at blame.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:18 pm

In the heat of the moment, you don't often think through exactly what you are doing, especially if you are in an autistic meltdown. I'm on the autism spectrum, and I know for a fact that I am not lucid when in meltdown - that's the entire definition and point of autistic meltdown. It's not a claim of 'insanity'; it's a well documented fact, supported by actual researchers who are far more knowledgeable than I am. (Look it up on Google scholar or in your university library).

And still, if someone is coming at you in a threatening manner, attempting to defend yourself from them is not assault - see the legal quotes Marionette provided.

And yes, the teachers SHOULD have known of the situation, but they still cornered and grabbed an autistic child instead, even though his grandmother specifically told them how to deal with meltdowns - as Marionette pointed out, it's well documented that such actions will severely exacerbate an autistic meltdown due to sensory integration problems (and I've experienced such actions firsthand, when not having a meltdown).

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MoonMan on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:22 pm

Ylanne. No, sorry. I'll take this to PM's. I dont wish to get off topic here.


I'm leaving the argument, though. Before you go playing trumpets with your ass, it's because the idio -- sorry mods, have put my account at warning level 2 for no reason. Least I got a warning this time! :D

Anyways, my final question is:

Is that picture at the top a picture of the child in question? Do you have permission to put it up? I don't wanna like.. get all fidgy-widgy, but if you dont you need to take it down before people get all butthurt about the legality of such things.

Anyways, to the PM.

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Re: Zakhqurey Price: A Call for Nationwide Legislative Educat...

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:28 pm

MoonMan wrote:Ylanne. No, sorry. I'll take this to PM's. I dont wish to get off topic here.


I'm leaving the argument, though. Before you go playing trumpets with your ass, it's because the idio -- sorry mods, have put my account at warning level 2 for no reason. Least I got a warning this time! :D

Anyways, my final question is:

Is that picture at the top a picture of the child in question? Do you have permission to put it up? I don't wanna like.. get all fidgy-widgy, but if you dont you need to take it down before people get all butthurt about the legality of such things.

Anyways, to the PM.


Yes, that's his picture, and his grandmother has authorized people displaying it on the web.

(Eagerly? Maybe not the right word?) awaiting your PM.
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