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Twilight Marmite?

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaptorThreeSix on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:47 am

I dunno. I don't mind the eye candy of Alice and Jane...
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ryananderson on Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:43 pm

Honestly, I understand both arguments. I, myself, read the series long before any of the movies had come out and long before the world went 'vampire crazy'. From the beginning I've thought Bella is a little... psychotic by the way she's extremely obsessive over a leech but at the same time I have to admit that it's one of the few romance novels I can deal with. Honestly if you hate it now I can see why, based upon how no one truly cares about the story more about the actors that are within the movies, but you shouldn't hate a story just because the world has turned it into something you loathe. The story is still the same... it's just the people who hold it's reputation. Don't let someone ruin your opinion upon something.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby crashmeback on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:23 pm

From someone who has never read the books, I can only comment on the movie. I was roped into watching it because of the hype. It was everywhere and especially around the Northwest. Despite what anyone feels about the movies or books, it has quite literally resurrected Forks and revitalized Port Angeles. Stores popped up selling all the merchandise, tours and actual tourists arrived checking out the restaurant and the neighborhoods. So, I watched it and was quite literally bored to tears. It was slow and I couldn't relate to the characters. I think part of is was the setting. I know the Northwest and I've been to Forks. The population is not a diverse Abercrombie & Fitch ad. And small town folk do not immediately fall in love with the pasty newcomer. Maybe they do other places but not around here. They aren't rude but I found it really odd that everyone was falling at Bella's feet. I was Bella back in the day and I did not have mysterious, brooding boyfriends. I had journals of angsty poetry and unrequited crushes. I suppose back then, I would have loved this series because it would have been an escape for me. But looking at it today, solely based on the movie, it plays like a domestic violence case. The guy who blows hot and cold and removes the girl from her friends and family plus his danger factor and the girl who can't possibly live without him (quite literally). I've seen this in real life and it usually ends up with a battered girl and an incarcerated guy.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaptorThreeSix on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:01 am

Crash, you've just described what in the fanfic world (and wider literature/writing in general) has come to be called a "Mary Sue". Instant compliance with everything. First person narrative. etc etc ad nauseam.

Something no one else seems to have picked up on: "Bella Swan" could be a euphemism for the ugly duckling. "I'm so ugly, oh, wait, look at me, now I'm beautiful!"

In proper Latin, Bella = War. It's the foundation of words/phrases like "Bellicose" "Belligerent" "Casus Belli" "Parabellum" and various famous latin proverbs for instance: "Si vis pacem, para bellum" (If you desire peace, prepare for war), or "Dulce Bellum Inexpertis" (War is sweet to those inexperienced in it), or even "Bella Destesta Matribus" (War is the horror of mothers).

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby LawOfTheLand on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:57 pm

Not to mention the English adoption of the word "antebellum" to describe something that was made in a period before a conflict of note. Literally, "before the war."

The Mary Sue phenomenon is typically the signature of the inexperienced plot developer that doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to, weave internal conflicts into the main character's personality or background for the sake of the narrative. Unfortunately, while this does smooth things over quite a bit in the beginning, this leaves no room for personal growth later on. Indeed, the reverse often happens: The girl with the perfect life is forced into a paradigm shift, and this in turn leads her to actually regress because her life isn't perfect anymore.

I've never read the books myself, but apparently a character called "Renesmee Cullen" is canon, with all that that implies. This had led several to point out that the male erection is driven by a combination of increased blood flow to the region (impossible since by Edward's own admission he lacks a heartbeat) and the relaxation of muscles, even though it is possible to ejaculate without attaining one. The problem with that is that according to Manswers, the most frequent cause of injury to males during sex is when he doesn't quite hit the desired hole in the heat of the moment. Further arguing against this is that the reproductive system is a rather delicate thing, rendered nonfunctional after only about an hour post mortem. Still, in a world with sparkling vampires and werewolves--oops, I meant shapeshifters--fighting for dominance, should we really argue science?
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:24 am

Yes...?

You can't really pick and choose your functioning bits. You're either cursed to be dead for all eternity, hunting mortals to sate your ever growing thirst and unable to ever feel alive again or you're not.

Stop wrecking vampires by picking all the things that make them 'good' without taking all the things that make them vampires.

Honestly.

Vampires are all we have now that werewolves can control themselves while in wolf form, demons no longer have to be evil and angels have genitalia. Soon Frankenstein's monster will come out looking all pretty, King Kong will be capable of understanding technology and mummies will just sort of fall in line with vampires as ultra-preserved undead princes from mystical Egypt who have not rotted at all.
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby JewelGlutton on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:09 am

-crack fingers- Oi. This might be the most rage-tastic stuff I've ever read, and am about to add to.

I've never read the book, nor watched the movies. But I know the vampires sparkle. And a vampire goes for a human. I'm considering watching them to make a better judgement. It would take me a year to read one book. Why? It takes me a long time to read book I know I won't like, or flat-out hate.

Reasons I will never read Twilight. (The movies might be done, just to get an idea.)

1. I never liked Vampires much in the first place.

2. Aren't vampires supposed to dress in long black capes and stuff? Or at least fancy-like? That's the only girly thing I know about them. I got this from a guide to Monster's, by the way.

3. Vampires are repelled by garlic, holy water, and crosses. They die by wooden stakes. I don't think I've heard anything mentioned except for the cross, which Edward has in his house, or so I'm told.

4. I don't like romance novels. Why can't their be fluff romance novels instead of, "Ohmigosh I need you", type novels? I like fluff. And my fair share of steam, but hey, I'm a fangirl, who can blame me? LOL.

5. Hold up, wait a minute! I just pulled out my Practical Guide To Monster's (Naming it so that I won't get sued, I did not make the book.) These are exact words on werewolves.
Once the transformation is complete, the ability to think as a human disappears, leaving only an animal's thirst for blood. By dawn, the victims return to human form, often with no memory of the incident.

6. Now, for words on Vampires.
Vampires tend to live alone.
No vampire can enter a private home or building without an invitation from someone living there.

I've never read it, but I've pretty good reasons no to.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Shooting Stars on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:10 pm

Actually, I don't love it or hate it. I tolerate it.

Why I don't like Twilight? The fans. Fans change everything for me, they're just too die hard. They get annoying after a while.
Why I do like Twilight? The story. I like the romance in the storyline, and, when it first came out, I was kind of taken a-back by the sparkling, vegetarian vampires. It was different, I liked it.

Reasons stated, all I have to say now is that all we can do is tolerate it. Bashing it- bashing anything- sure as hell doesn't do anything. Nor does defending it with all your might.
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaptorThreeSix on Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Twilight is like soccer... In both, the players run around for an hour and a half, nobody scores and the fans insist you just don't understand.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby EternalSin on Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:07 am

I read all the Twilight books and loved them. Then I saw the movies and died a little inside... It was awful and NOTHING like the books. Then I went to go read the books again, picked one up and said, "wtf. Really?"
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby elysiumsembrace on Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:06 am

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Twilight is the dumb on so many ridiculous levels.

The Writing? Bad
The Characters? Worse
The Plot? About as creative as naming that kid Renesme or whatever the flip it was. Seriously?

This might be the best analysis of the Twilight Series I've ever read, certainly better than the books themselves.

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html#cutid1
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The Smoosh with rock your socks off.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby misselain on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:33 pm

So here's my two cents on the book.

I read the first book shortly after it came out. I didn't really like it that much to be honest, even at the young age I felt it was too simple.

Now that I am a little older I find it appalling. I understand that she as a Mormon woman was raised with certain 'beliefs' such as that men are the center of the universe and nothing else matters, and that school is just a waiting area before getting a man. It is horrible because thousands of young girls, and boys, are reading these books and picking up on that little fact.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Erev Lace on Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:25 pm

I remember the book coming out when I was in high school. I saw girls that I'd never seen willingly pick up a book before (same girls that told me, 'You read? That's weird...') and decided it must be some unique, enlightening book of true amazingness to make them read. So I got a copy. Nah, I realized. Just crap.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Zephyr on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:52 pm

I read the book almost immediately after the first one came out. Didn't think it was anything special. I tried to read the second book, but it was so godawful that I had to quit. As I've heard, the books got progressively worse [one involved Sparklepire ripping a chunk out of the headboard of their bed during sex...? Really?]. Once the fandom erupted, I began to despise the series, as well as its author. Not for sparking a generation of nuisancing fan-girls and fan-boys, but for completely defeating the purpose of vampirism and lycanthropy. They were supposed to be undesirable conditions, or at least have SOME form of downside. Her portrayal of these ancient beings completely skewed realities views on them; nowadays people think Dracula was a poser, that werewolves make good pets, and LOVE Wuthering Heights [because Twilight told them its good; the number of them who have actually READ Wuthering Heights is significantly lower].

So yeah. I sort of kind of completely detest that series' existence.
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby VitaminHeart on Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:50 am

Tsukihana wrote: Not for sparking a generation of nuisancing fan-girls and fan-boys, but for completely defeating the purpose of vampirism and lycanthropy. They were supposed to be undesirable conditions, or at least have SOME form of downside.



This.

The protrayal of vampires and werewolves in the thing annoys me.

I mean me, I really like writing werewolf characters, but the cheif interesting idea about werewolves is the idea that the change is involuntary, that they have no choice, and that the change makes them vicious an savage. I think that ads kidn of an interesting edge to the character. They might have been chatting with you half an hour ago...now they're trying to rip your face off.

Twilight 'werewolves' there's no such conflict. In fact, there's no conflict at all. They can change back and forth whenever they want AND it makes them live longer I beleive. I just...I don;t know how that could be interesting. There's no development to be had out of it. It's just...a magic trick.

Then the vampires.

Vampires are another potentially interesting thing to write. For one, they're capable of being shockingly, awfully evil. Even for those writing a 'good' vampire, they'd be trying to deal with the fact that they're essentially a monster, and have to kill innocent people just so they can survive...right?

Oh, no. Not in Twilight. Vampires are actually totally nice people really, and can go around their whole lives drinking animal blood (which strangely no-one actually seems to voice any objection to...) they don't age, they all look improbably attractive and smartly dressed, they live in fancy houses and play superstrength baseball....and they don't have any vampiric weaknesses at all. ...and they get superpowers.

Yet for some reason Meyer insists that they still pretend that its' 'A CUUURSE'. It's a bit much for me to be honest, and I find it defeats the object. Why bother making characters into other species if the species change is just to do a load of fancy superpower tricks and for there to be no real downsides. Heck, if there aren't any downsides...let's all become vampires. It'll be great.


My other minor peeve is people going on about it being a 'forbidden love'.

No...no it isn't. No-one forbids it. Even the vampire mafia seemed to be pretty okay with it.

Oh, and the fact that the whole baby plotline was utterly wasted and the birth scene was sickening. Teeth caesarian..really?
But I think it the baby had sturned out to be some sort of horrific all-consuming abomination. That might have save the series to some degree. At least if she'd been something...vaguely nasty.


But no,she just became a conventient plot device to shut the werewolf up.

The whole thing seems to reek of wasted opportunities to make something interesting...and it's worse now as it's spawned dozens of rip-offs of young woman trying to work their way through every mythical species out there provided they're angsty enough.

It's really knocked supernatural fiction for six, I hope authors stop trying to ape it soon...I'd like to see some actually nasty vampires again. Some nasty ANYTHING again....or even any monster that's not just angsty and misunderstood and BROODING.
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MrMurdoch on Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:55 am

Honestly...
I hate it.
But let's just say I was probably a bit prejudiced when I first read them. Why? Because I'm a die-hard fan of Harry Potter (and anything relating to The Phantom of the Opera, but that's another topic entirely). And due to this, I was constantly bullied by the Twitards at my school. They seemed to enjoy hitting me with the largest hard-back editions they could find. -_-

Still, it's a pretty annoying series. I picked up the first copy and read this...
Edward Eward Edward Mary-Sue Edward Edward Edward look at me I'm sparkle-ass amazing! Edward Edward Edward.

My Mom also read them. We don't share the same book tastes at all, but she hated them. On the other hand, if teenage girls having some fun with dead people (also known as being a necrophiliac), then go on ahead! By the way, it's biologically impossible to have a kid with a vampire. They're dead, morons. Let's think of what we're writing before we write it.

PS: Werewolves are involuntary. Lycans are voluntary. And I'm pretty sure that having your internal organs and bone structures all changing dramatically in a matter of seconds will hurt like hell. So don't tell me they can just morph and then trot off all happy.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby VitaminHeart on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:02 am

DraconicArcania wrote:
PS: Werewolves are involuntary. Lycans are voluntary. And I'm pretty sure that having your internal organs and bone structures all changing dramatically in a matter of seconds will hurt like hell. So don't tell me they can just morph and then trot off all happy.


The best way I've seen this handled was BBC's 'Being Human' series, where it was explained that a werewolf transformation causes the person to suffer a heart attack, multiple organ failure, and numerous broken bones simultaineously, as the organs have to shut down to alter in size. The pituitary gland also shuts off, so no endorphins are released into the body, which makes it even worse. Thnakfully they gain some sort of supernautral reistance to damage in order to survive the change.

Oh, and it was also mentioned that if a werewolf ever stops screaming during the change, it's not becuase the pain has ease up, it's becuase their vocal chords have been torn apart, so they can't actually make any sound.

Isn't it just so romantic?

I really can't get along with the voluntary change thing...I just find that a bit boring. Having a savage, maneating abomination inside you waiting to come out when the moon is full and possibly tear apart everyone dear to you? I find that kidna interesting read, or indeed write.
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Zephyr on Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:52 am

I just have one question; if his heart isn't pumping, how in the hell did he have sex with her...?

Think about it.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby VitaminHeart on Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:17 am

Tsukihana wrote:I just have one question; if his heart isn't pumping, how in the hell did he have sex with her...?

Think about it.



Apparently they're supposed to have some sort of 'venom' instead of blood in thier bodies so maybe that could...oh god...that just makes it even more disturbing...my mind has been officially violated by the mental image.

Truly though, I don't think Meyer really tried to figure these things out. I kinda doubt that she really wanted to. The angsty romance seemed to be more what she was focused on.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby SasoriRinku on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:39 pm

The thing that ruined twilight for me was that, just as I was about to pick it up and read it, the fan-craze hit, and everyone in the world was in love with it. That was a decent turn-off for me, and then, shortly after, I started hearing the fan descriptions of the books, and my interest went down from there. As it is now, I have nothing personally aginast the book (although I find the idea of a sparkly vampire hilarious), I will never, ever pick the book up. You can kill me first.
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