Announcements: Cutting Costs (2024) » January 2024 Copyfraud Attack » Finding Universes to Join (and making yours more visible!) » Guide To Universes On RPG » Member Shoutout Thread » Starter Locations & Prompts for Newcomers » RPG Chat β€” the official app » Frequently Asked Questions » Suggestions & Requests: THE MASTER THREAD »

Latest Discussions: Adapa Adapa's for adapa » To the Rich Men North of Richmond » Shake Senora » Good Morning RPG! » Ramblings of a Madman: American History Unkempt » Site Revitalization » Map Making Resources » Lost Poetry » Wishes » Ring of Invisibility » Seeking Roleplayer for Rumple/Mr. Gold from Once Upon a Time » Some political parody for these trying times » What dinosaur are you? » So, I have an Etsy » Train Poetry I » Joker » D&D Alignment Chart: How To Get A Theorem Named After You » Dungeon23 : Creative Challenge » Returning User - Is it dead? » Twelve Days of Christmas »

Players Wanted: Serious Anime Crossover Roleplay (semi-literate) » Looking for a long term partner! » JoJo or Mha roleplay » Seeking long-term rp partners for MxM » [MxF] Ruining Beauty / Beauty x Bastard » Minecraft Rp Help Wanted » CALL FOR WITNESSES: The Public v Zosimos » Social Immortal: A Vampire Only Soiree [The Multiverse] » XENOMORPH EDM TOUR Feat. Synthe Gridd: Get Your Tickets! » Aishna: Tower of Desire » Looking for fellow RPGers/Characters » looking for a RP partner (ABO/BL) » Looking for a long term roleplay partner » Explore the World of Boruto with Our Roleplaying Group on FB » More Jedi, Sith, and Imperials needed! » Role-player's Wanted » OSR Armchair Warrior looking for Kin » Friday the 13th Fun, Anyone? » Writers Wanted! » Long term partner to play an older male wanted »

Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

a topic in The Library, a part of the RPG forum.

Moderator: Scholars

An organized archive of roleplaying guides, including step-by-step, how-to, and general essays on theory.

Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tyro on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:53 pm

I thought I'd impart some knowledge...and currently under the impression that any pleb can write here...

Its come to my attention that role-players are,in general...well...nice. Happy, cheery and always friendly. Unless you god/power mode o' course. My point is that there are a very small amount of bad guys that I've seen. They usually have to be created for the RP rather than a travelling bad guy that comes from else where. You can only get people to be bad guys if its a Batman RP. The bad guys in that are more colourful than Batman or robin any day of the week. In short: People want to be the good guys, which is fine...

But bad guys are fun. If done right, they are terrifying, hated, lousy, stinking pieces of refuse that will do anything to rid themselves of their opponents. And I guarantee, from the bottom of the dark void of disgust I can replace my heart with, it'll be the most fun you've had in ages.

Right, lets get cracking! Muhahahahahahahaaaaaaa!

My usual bad guy - Kyrios - will be my example.

The self-proclaimed Lord Kyrios commands a vast and seemingly inexaughstable army. He uses his resources to add to his steadily growing empire. Surprise, surprise! He wants Antlatania. He doesn't give up easily either. Plus, he has a group of generals to call upon, each very dangerous. There has only been one group that has ever stood up to his power and won. There is also only one he would consider his rival.

Personality and behaviour to other characters

This can be summed up in one word; unpleasant. Especially to those in his way.

But lets delve further into that. When addressing the Heroes trusted with killing the villain, there are only really two modes: smug and angry. The villain is usually smug around the hero partly because he is usually in a seat of great power, has what he wants, or is just trying to intimidate the Hero. Villian's tend to have huge ego and over-confidence in their abilities. A Villian without these is in danger of be coming likeable. Plus, motives for being evil tend to make more sense. Nice people aren't greedy.

And how about this. Which sounds better?

Kyrios leaned in to whisper into The Hero's Ear
"You can't beat me. I'm invinsible!" he said before sitting in his throne again.


Kyrios moved in to spit more poison into the Hero's ear.
"You can't beat me. I'm invinsible!" he hissed before slinking back into his throne.


See what I did? The right use of adjectives can make the villain seem disgusting making his easier to dislike. Good right?

Another good way of cementing dislike is insults. Kyrios, if you ever have the misfortune to meet, does this. Depending on the character, its another way of the villain looking down on the character from their feeling of elevated status. However, some villains may find this bellow their station, which in itself is an insult to the Hero. They don't think its worth throwing abuse basically. Intelligence and wit are factors too when hurling abuse. Idiots and slow-minded people will say very simple one liners usually.

"Stupid-tunic wearing berk!"

While the cleverer baddies will do better to intimidate the Hero.

"I am not impressed by the mystical tooth-pick you have chosen to pathetically try and kill me with. Frankly, I was expecting this to have been dipped in pond scum. That sounds like something you'd be about capable of. Plus it would do a better job than the hocus-pocus the wizzard's old folks home have coughed on this thing."

If you can't think of anything quite as witty as you like then you could resort to racism. Please don't mistake this with being racist to the people behind the character. Just to make sure. But, for villian's, its a brilliant way of being unpleasant. Its easy to do, especially if your character is different to the other people around him or her. Y'know, like an elf in a human world or a human in an elf world. Racism could flow easily. Just remember to warn people that your going to be as unpleasant as that. You still might upset someone you didn't intend to.

There is another mode for baddies: sucking up. This is generally with allies or anyone who has something the bad guy wants but is a great threat to him or her. You can make him or her look like as much of a crawler as you can.

Looks

This is a totally blank canvas. Your villain can look like anything you like. Look at the Blue Meenies from 'Yellow Submarine' if you don't believe me. Remember, a baddie in black has been done. Purple is considered a royal colour, try that.

Power

A bad guy must have an advantage over the good guy. This can be status, powers, wealth, intelligence, anything that applies. A villain that is equal or inferior to the Hero won't be much of a challenge. An inferiority complex doesn't work if the inferior has it. Interesting powers that do something unusual like controlling oil or being about to see the future or past of any object, for example just make your baddie stand out.

But don't go over board. Your baddie has to fail. Usually...

Failure

Generally, RP bad guys are defeated. There are probably a few where the Heroes fail but they tend to be rare. You should have a weakness for your bad guy that can be exploited when discovered. A good way of creating weaknesses are history, species and abilities.

You've played Pokemon, right? Fire beats water and that? That can happen for your villain too. Fire is extinguished by water. Plants can be burnt. Darkness hides from light. Its depends on the character.

A painful memory might work. Or that one person that terrified the villain come to finish them off.

Or the weakness lies with the villain's nature. he makes too many enemies and no allies. The choice is yours.


OK. I'm out of ideas. Hopefully, we'll see more loathed baddies rather than just ming-the-merciless types that do bad stuff, laugh and that's it.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Tyro
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Person of Interest

To be honest, I think what you're describing still constitutes a complete cliche of a 'baddie'. Who says that villains can't be outwardly nice, for example? Go and read Othello for an absolute master-class in this type of character:

For when my outward action doth demonstrate
The native act and figure of my heart
In compliment extern, 'tis not long after
But I will wear my heart upon my sleeve
For daws to peck at: I am not what I am.


((Some of my favourite lines ever written from the mouth of one of my favourite characters ever created.))

I also disagree with the statement 'nice people aren't greedy'. A 'goodie' has to have human flaws in order to actually be a three-dimensional interesting and believable character. Everybody has flaws. Further to that point, a villain does not necessarily have to be completely and utterly evil in every single way. Moulding the aspects of a character around where he/she will be unpleasant enough is not the proper way to go about constructing a character's personality and will only result in a caricature. By all means, go ahead and create a character that is completely and utterly insidious but there has to be a background, a framework and a depth to back it up. Otherwise, you are running the risk of creating a plot device rather than a believable character.

More frequently, I believe there should be (and I'm phrasing this very simplistically) good and bad in every character, even if they are skewed in one direction or the other. Whether that's optimistic or pessimistic I'm not entirely sure...

In the words of Chinua Achebe's Vultures:

Praise bounteous
providence if you will
that grants even an ogre
a tiny glow-worm
tenderness encapsulated
in icy caverns of a cruel
heart or else despair
for in every germ
of that kindred love is
lodged the perpetuity
of evil.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
NorthernSoul
Member for 17 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Novelist Completionist Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tyro on Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:02 pm

Actually, the closet bastard is a pretty good villain too. Its just harder to do. Not everyone can pull strings like Iago.

And I agree...It just didn't come to mind when I wrote it...

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Tyro
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Person of Interest

In my opinion, one of the most helpful tips for being evil is to imagine what your reaction to a situation would be, and specifically avoid doing that. Trod on the beggar's fingers. Torture and kill the cqpives. Kick the dog.

Really, villains tend to be very goal-oriented, very means-to-an-end people, even the insane ones. Francis Dolarhyde (Red Dragon) brutally slaughtered people to facilitate his "Becoming". Although they'll occassionally just be flat out cruel simply because it's in their nature, but the vast majority of the time, they're working ruthlessly towards that goal, by whatever means the seem necessary.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
The Lord of Hats
Member for 15 years
Conversation Starter Conversationalist Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tyro on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:03 pm

OK...Maybe I should have gotten everyone else to write this...

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Tyro
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Person of Interest

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Imehal on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:57 pm

Nonsense, Tyro! You were offering advice based on your own experience and knowledge and others are adding extra dimensions to your advice. Your explanation is as perfectly valid as anyone else's. Stereotypical villains are used just as often as more calculating ones, it's the personal twists that you add that make the villains diverse.
Gasmask: Alright. Either your CD is corrupted, which'd explain the crashing and odd stuffs.
Imehal: Or?
Gasmask: Your windows really, really, really hates icewind dale.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Imehal
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Contributor Completionist Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tyro on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:58 pm

No...Its more out of laziness...

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Tyro
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Person of Interest

If your villain has powers to give him/her an edge on the heroes, the elemental rock-paper-scissors trope can be used, but what's more interesting is when your villain has a strength that can turn into a weakness with the right tactic, weapon, or spell. I'm reminded of the episode of The Fairly Oddparents where Timmy's life turns into an action movie, and the main villain of it is distracted by a scratching cat on his face that he can't reach because his muscles are too big.

Fights don't always have to be those of powers vs. powers, though. Like any good fight, strategy can also play a role. Underground bunkers (or dungeons, depending on the genre of the RP) are good because they can't be bombarded very easily from above, the amount of lighting is totally up to the controllers, and there's the X-factor of the heroes going into an alien environment they probably haven't scoped out before.

Never underestimate the importance of surprise attacks, either. Instead of the typical villain monologue before the big fight at the end, try throwing the heroes off balance by having them get whacked before they even know where their target is, and make up for it with a death speech should the heroes win anyway. This is particularly effective if your party is fighting an opponent that rose to power through being sneaky or otherwise underhanded.

Also, scope out the various guides to conducting turn-based fights (if that is what you want the RP to culminate in), as well as my guide regarding the creation of characters with powers should you go that route. It works for villains as well as heroes, as long as the overall power level isn't too high.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Image

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
LawOfTheLand
Contributor
Contributor
Member for 16 years
Beta Tester Promethean Conversation Starter Author World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Builder Donated! Party Starter Contributor Person of Interest Bug Hunter Streamwatcher Maiden Voyager Recruiter Greeter Visual Appeal Tipworthy Property Buyer Salesman Concierge Arc Warden Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:32 pm

I personally gravitate toward the 'evil' characters. My philosophy as a crime writer (and a roleplayer) is that all characters, like all art, must reflect life, and that, at least according to my own personal beliefs, no one is truly evil, and everyone has within them the subconscious yearning to be accepted or loved. . . . Therefore, every time I create a 'villain' character, I approach it the same way I approach a 'good' or 'hero' character.

I want all my characters to be well-developed (well thought out), dynamic (will change as the story arcs), sympathetic (not necessarily likeable, but has feelings/situations other roleplayers can relate to), believable (not god-moded or power-moded or a Mary Sue or an Anti-Sue), and unique (not an archetype/cliche/etc. unless that's the point of the roleplay). And so that applies to a hero or a villain.

Then again, most of the people posting here have much more experience with fantasy and Batman type roleplays than I have ever accumulated, though I am trying to expand my horizons. My preferred genre is realistic and modern, so my type of villains tend to fall into a different category than the ones you are discussing here. However, I am currently playing a few villains with powers, and one who is a demon. So that is requiring me asking lots of questions so I don't accidently power-mode. That just wouldn't be cool. :/

Anyways, that's about all I have to say. So peace out. Ylanne.
β€‹β€œAnother world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”
― Arundhati Roy

β€œThe only way to survive is to take care of each other.”
― Grace Lee Boggs

β€œevery day is another chance to practice living out the values that matter most to us. to be our best selves. to be the legacy we want to leave.”
― Mia Mingus

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Ylanne
Groundskeeper
Groundskeeper
Member for 16 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Greeter Arc Warden Party Starter Contributor Person of Interest Storyteller Beta Tester Builder Cult Leader Concierge Tipworthy Donated! Lifegiver Visual Appeal

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Skallagrim on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:19 pm

I rather enjoy playing a villain and have been asked to do so in several RP's here. The words that can breathe life into the darkened heart are amazing and can add a great deal of atmosphere to any role-play.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not talking about purple prose which is tedious and annoying, I am talking about words that help evoke the feeling of the villain in a manner that allows the mind's eye to envision them. After all that is why we role-play and write to evoke visual imagery with our words.

As Qb stated his guides do help and Ylanne is expanding her horizons and becoming a more adept role-player, plus she is learning realistic melee fighting and how it plays out.

Anyways a very nice guide.
The writer who cares more about words than about characters, action, setting, atmosphere is unlikely to create a vivid and continuous dream; he gets in his own way too much; in his poetic drunkenness, he can't tell the cart- and its cargo- from the horse.
John Gardner



Image

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Skallagrim
Contributor
Contributor
Member for 17 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Contributor Visual Appeal Tipworthy

My favourite kind of villains are the ones that you sort of sympathise with. Like Michael Corleone from The Godfather, or Benjamin Linus from LOST. They're on the darker end of the grey scale, but they still have redeeming qualities.

However, my favourite 'totally evil' character is Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. There's nothing really hostile or overtly sinister about her. She's just really callous and manipulative in such a way that expresses evil so perfectly. She's basically a fascist dictator. Which is probably more evil than any unholy wizard or anything.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Just Emerald
Member for 15 years
Conversation Starter Author Conversationalist Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Monroe on Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:16 am

While I think it's true that certainly most people play good, moral characters with nice personalities and good senses of humors, I also think there is another underlying reason for the seeming lack of villains. When one roleplays, they do so out of the eyes of their character, whether good or not-so-good (I won't say evil, because not all villains are). And, when a roleplay is viewed from the perspective of the character, they are naturally the protagonist in their own life. While it may be obvious to the writer that what their creation is doing is wrong or stupid or cruel, the character views it as just or, at the least, necessary. Naturally, this does not apply to every villain all the time in every situation, but with most of them, they feel justified in what they are doing, and the figure who looks like the white knight to everyone else in the world is the 'villain's' evil nemesis. It's all objective.
Image

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Monroe
Member for 16 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Lifegiver

Re: Being Evil for the Mild-nannered and Genuinely Nice People

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tyro on Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:15 am

I agree again.

I don't have too much of a soft spot showing with my villains. Its there but generally hidden and you only get to see bits of. Any part of that side I tend to use to make the Villain seem even stranger than before.

And the perception thing is a necessity. Thanks Monroe.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Tyro
Member for 15 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Person of Interest


Post a reply

Make a Donation

$

RPG relies exclusively on user donations to support the platform.

Donors earn the "Contributor" achievement and are permanently recognized in the credits. Consider donating today!

 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest