Ha.

Well, now that I've got your attention, I guess the title of this discussion thread isn't a complete lie.

Today I'd like to bring up the subject of cursing in writing, roleplays, what have you. Two notes before we begin:

(1) Any following language in this thread must only be used to make your point; don't just swear for the sake of swearing.

(2) I'm not about to let this thread degenerate into a flame-fest on who was brought up how, and why that shapes their opinion.

Now that that's out of the way, where do you stand on vulgarity in roleplays? Fuck, shit, crap, damn, hell, all those sorts of words?

Myself, it all compartmentalizes nicely.

(1) In real life, I don't make a habit of swearing aloud. I've got the capacity for such language, of course, but it never really comes out of my mouth -- least of all at someone. That's not to say I look down my nose at people who do drop some bombs here and there, but I just don't do it myself.


(b) On that note, however, I do swear occasionally in the OOC chat. It becomes more of a stream of consciousness for me -- again, I have the capacity for such language, but it just doesn't come out vocally.

(2) In writing, my general rule of thumb is I won't go out of my way to avoid having a character curse, but I won't go out of my way to have a character curse.


(b) For example: My character Darrel Mathers could, at any given day, make a sailor blush. However, if you were brutally murdered, brought back to life and then encountered the 17-year-old daughter of your mortician once reanimating at the morgue you sure wouldn't be saying 'oh, gosh darn and golly!'


(c) On the other hand, my character Wren Mishoyu is an easygoing, low-maintenence genius who (so far) has had life pretty hitch-free. To write her saying -- "woah, what the fuck is all this shit?" not only doesn't fit her character, but is generally completely against what she's about. See what I mean?

So yeah. Also, there's something else I'm going to bring up.

I see kids doing it around here, and it annoys me even though I used to do it:

"Oh, cr*p! Oh, sh*t! You b*stard!"

Believe it or not, this irks more than the general @#$%@! approach. Although I respect that you're censoring yourself (however briefly) simply omitting one character isn't fooling anyone, and it makes you look like you're a little too young to be writing such language -- like you stole your dad's shotgun and you're just firing at cars, instead of people -- all the while terrified but excited to see what sort of damage you can do. If you must use language like that, then don't namby-pamby around with it.

^That said, I can understand if (like in some cases on network television) it's required that such shoddy editing be done. Still feels like you're a 7-year-old packin' heat, though.

Heh. With those points made, I have to go back and make a blanket statement:

I try to never take the Lord's name in vain.

Call me old-fashioned if you want, but with all the other words in the English language one's disposal, I just don't think the "Goddam!"s and the "Jesus Christ!"s are necessary. Those are things I draw the line at in writing -- and, again, while I don't elevate myself over people who do say that stuff, it's just what I do.

So yeah! That about concludes it from my end.

What about you guys?

You can follow my format when replying, or just give a blurble of talky-talk.

...I've wanted one of these threads for a while now. LOL

I really don't have too much to elaborate on the subject to start out(compared to your well-organized practically essay on the subject), but I can say that in any and all of my RP's heavy cursing is fine, to an extent. So long as it's your "characters" doing the cursing, and not you and it isn't disrupting the roleplay, it's fine by me. But when somebody gets upset and takes things personally, then lets their personality take over and start flame wars, then it's crossing the line.

As for the half-censoring(such as sh*t), I think that's just stupid, imho. If you're going to curse and try and censor it, don't make it blatantly obvious what you're saying. It just makes you look like you're trying to avoid a censor and further intentionally break rules.

Finally, as for taking the lords name in vein, I don't do in real life it for the reason that I'm atheist and don't believe yelling their names make sense, but in character I generally don't say it aswell because I dislike those expressions.

Due to the fact that I agree with everything both of you have said so far, I have nothing to contribute to the conversation.

So here is a fishy stick.

Well I might not have valuable imput to add, but in OOC I would not use curses, however it is part of certain characters to spit venom, for people who have played... say, Company of Heroes could you picture the American army without curse words?

I mean on the boards and OOC I would think that I dont throw around curses like candy or anything, but certain characters have it as part of their identity.

However I think it would boild down to the creator of the thread no? and if not him/her to the rules

This is a excellent article, and raises some good questions. You see Im generally half afraid to curse on my characters, because of the whole flame war thing. But when you got the rough and tough types I love to play, like the mercenary, soldier, berserker, beggar, thief, prisoner, ect. Swearing is so part of that culture. Video games, movies, books, or anyone who does manual labor generally is prone to swear words. Why? Because its "colorful" in its own way. Taking a video game character is a perfect example, Cid, from Final Fantasy 7, was reknowned for his potty mouth by gamers, but they also produced a ton of chuckles from me and others. Particularly this line, "What, my hospitality ain't good enough for you? I said sit your spikey ass down and drink your GOD DAMNED TEA!" in which he says a cesored swear word and goes outback to work on his plane if I remember. Now from that statement alone, you can already get a feel for the character and what he is like, and puts a unique stamp on him.

Also thinking of comedic value of swearing. Just saying "What the" doesn't really compare to "What the hell?!" or more commonly used "What the fuck?". There is a innate desire to laugh at that expression because.. well we all relate to it. While we may not have said it, we certainly think something similar. This goes back to ancient comedy, or even Shakespear, as many of his insults were descriptive and creative, but at the time could be considered ghastly.

Cursing has been known to be the language of the people. There were greek playrights who put particular emphasis on common words (including swears) to make their stories more appealing to more audiences.

So I guess, at the end of the day, why the not? I don't care much for swearing a ton (though you catch me saying damn and hell alot, mostly for comedy purposes). I think as long as it relates to the character and they can string a sentence together without them (then again, I know this old guy, whose pretty cool and all, but he always refers to people as "Tha' sonofabitch")

On that note, its in my character to say "HELL YES" to fishy sticks village alchemist :) om nom nom


EDIT!

You know, had a side thought here, just a observation but many people who are not religious or don't belive the "Jesus/God" still have a habit of saying "God Dammit" now, im not saying its wrong or right, no one can make that call really, but its a interesting observation on how.. well popular the expression is. Its like saying "Thats cool"... cool for so long meant... um not warm but not cold either.

Just a fun observation, and one im guilty of from time to time. The lord's name in vain is something I tend to avoid more so to keep those around me happy like mom who is fairly religious, so im not saying im completely uncaring of the fact it can upset other people, but I have to say that its weird how mainstream it has become, religious or otherwise.

Hmm I curse, its a habit I picked up here and there. I do watch myself in RL and refrain from doing so when required. However a cruse word is nothing more than a word, it is the connotation that is implied in the syntax that one can find disconcerting. That being said I am an adult and if my character is in a situation when and where a good f-bomb or some other curse will convey or evoke a feel then I will use it. But being a writer I know that it is not necessary to use such words all the time, but used strategically they can create a HUGE impact upon a scene because the evocation of such a word brings life and emotion to what is being portrayed in a way other words simply cannot.

It's something interesting to keep in mind, right?

Lots of good points, and little observations I hadn't thought of. Romaneck basically hit it square in the head for me:

I mean on the boards and OOC I would think that I dont throw around curses like candy or anything, but certain characters have it as part of their identity.

And then Tigeress followed it up with their comments about the flavor of a character. I also agree with what they said about the commercialization of taking the Lord's name in vain, something that I (being a Christian, for better or for worse) sort of raise my eyebrow at.

"Oh my God!" and other 'religious' curses haave become such a part of what we say every day, and I catch myself saying the former all the time. It has become just a sort of standard phrase, like "that's cool!" or "legit!" (and if you don't say that last one, maybe it's just me) so I'm glad you mentioned it.

Also, Tigeress, that's an interesting point about the Greek plays. I'll admit I didn't know that. Language is language, what words are there are for everyone's use.

On a separate, entirely respectful note, Skallagrim is older than most of the people replying in this thread, I daresay. What's the difference between an adult cursing with purpose in writing, and a 14-year-old just testing out the swears he heard his uncle's spewing while watching the latest college football game?

^The above question being hypothetical, of course, and merely an extension of the discussion topic.

My view upon cussing might seem strange or different, or maybe even commonplace depending on where you live and the culture of your country. But in my eyes, 'swear' words are just like any other word in the English language. Being Agnostic, I find it silly that based on some vague event that may or may not have happened hundreds of years ago we limit our language. I mean, where did those words really come from, anyway? Were they invented for the simple purpose of telling people not to use them? That's just silly! Of course people are going to cuss if they think it's not allowed; it's human nature.

However, even after saying all that, I don't have a very dirty mouth. I am not fond of setting people in awkward positions (I wouldn't walk up to a nun and begin cussing violently) but then again, it bothers me when people cuss to the point of excess. "Damn that fucking shit, this is fucked up, bitches," for example, is not something that ought to be said in a room full of calm people. Maybe if the speaker is about to be shot, or something, but for no other purpose than to cuss for cussing's sake? Again, that's just silly.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I'll conform to the language preferences of whoever's around me when I'm in real life. But when playing a character, it all depends on that character's background. If I know that the person I'm roleplaying with is a devout Christian, my character would more than likely do more of this: "she cursed loudly" than this: "fuck!" or vice versa for a roleplay with somebody that doesn't particularly care.

Well I mean, Dave Gahan had it right when he said that words are useless and they can only do harm.

But seriously now, it is a very cultural thing because for example me being mexican I dont really get the rilling up behind using a certain word to refeer to the afroamericans I mean when people say it its like "whoa, everybody shut up and make akward silence".

Its a cultural thing, me and my mexican buddies dont really get it and we never will, however O when they say beaner or wetback we really get our guns blazing, and that is something that say... greeks or germans cant just get.

However on the view of RPing as an art, there is art that is truly offensive and disgusting but they say that art´s goal is to make the spectator feel, said person might not like what they feel, to cite an example, i knew how things were gona turn out, I knew that Hector was going to die, I knew that Achiles was a godmode sue that simply was not meant to die.

But when Hector died, I got kind of depressed because he didnt deserve to die, he was a paragorn and a champion to his people and a chivalrious soldier that gave everything he had for his homeland, and when he dies I didnt feel good, I felt shocked even tough I knew how it was going to end.

Similarly to Ice and Fire, there are many, many disturbing things that make you sick, I could get my list out and mark the incest, rape, senseless violence, maiming etc. But though you might not like how it makes you feel, it makes you feel disgust and rage and that I think its the purpouse of art.

There are some characters of mine that are based on this, everybody loves to hate them, because theyre so vile and depraved, they have to use words that will hit a gear on the readder and they will go like "******* s/hes one sick ****".

So in character cursing can make a great impact on certain people, however, it can easily get out of hand and get into the OOC which is I guess, the last thing everyone wants to have it.

Like for example you have this character, and hes a christian (this is an example mind you) and he is as false as you can get, hell lets make him a bishop, and he is really sick and depraved he does all the things that would make you recoil in horror and disgust, but then another player introduces a muslim or an atheist that is a champion of good wishes and benevolence.

Now it is inevitable that some people will feel offended by this and might think that you are doing an undercover critique of their societhy, saying that the church is evil and corrupt and that it wishes to brainwash the masses and the muslims and the atheists are so much more noble.

But I never said that! I just made a RP and the plot roled with it, but not everyone lets go things so easily.

I hope Im not stepping on anyone´s toes here, I havent been here a month and it would be a real shame to start with the left foot.

But yea, sometimes, people think too much

Hmm, an interesting topic and I like reading how other people view the concept of cursing. I often wonder who decided which words were curses and which ones weren't. What makes the word "Fuck" so much worse than the phrase "sexual intercourse" or "shit" so much worse than "crap"? Granted the word 'fuck' has multiple meanings and is by far the most versatile word in the English language. As for me I say a word is a word and who are we to label it as a bad word. If you didn't want people using it then it shouldn't have been invented in the first place. Now we censor it and try to pretend they don't exist. Now I don't go out of my way to say shit, piss, cunt, cock-sucker, mother fucker, tits, fart, and twat (the legendary list of things we can't say on TV), but I don't go out of my way to avoid them either. If I say them I say them and if I don't I don't. I don't really consider them worse than any other choice words I could use.

Having said this I know there are other people that don't have the same view as I do and I don't incorporate this into my writing. Like so many of you have said before me these words fit some characters well and others not so much. Some characters are more reserved and others have the 'I don't give a fuck' quality. So I guess in my writing it depends on the character and in rl it just kinda happens now and then. I don't put too much importance into them as some people do and consider it just another part of my language to use and not use as needed.

As for taking your lords name in vain, I'm agnostic and I can tell what you mean. We here phrases like 'Goddammit' and 'Oh my God' every day and its been kinda programmed into our minds as a reactionary phrase. Though I guess I tend to say 'Oh God' more than 'Oh my God' seeing as he's not really my god lol. Just an adaptation I guess. Well that's all I've got to say on the subject and I'll leave you with a lovely FISHSTICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

In real life, I do not swear, and I believe swearing is not only wrong, but also very disrespectful.

The word "fuck" comes from the English domination of the Scots. To humiliate the conquered Scots and to eventually eliminate their line (a form of indirect genocide), the English established a practice known as 'first rights'. When a Scottish woman married a Scottish man, an English soldier would wait at the wedding, and afterward, would rape her and then take her home to her husband. The intent was to impregnate the woman so her child would only be part Scottish. This act was referred to as 'fucking' the woman.

The word "shit" has a class connotation. Used in the Middle Ages to refer to feces, as its dictionary definition will reveal, someone who was "shitty" was of a lower class because they could not afford a horse or cart to ride above the streets, which were literally full of fecal matter inches thick due to the lack of public sanitation measures. Essentially, the street was the toilet and the sewer.

The word "bitch" also has a class connotation. A bitch is a female canine, particularly one of mixed or indeterminate breed. Used first in the Middle Ages, it implied that someone was of a lower class because of impure bloodlines making them of 'indeterminate breed'.

On the note of taking the Lord's name in vain, I am a rather religious Christian and as such I tend to avoid phrases like "Oh god", "oh my god", and "My god" in real life. At the same time, the word LORD in the Bible, all caps, is used as a representation of the Hebrew YHWH (Yod Hei Vav Hei) which is often written as Yahweh (or misrepresented due to failGerman as Jehovah), a personal name defined in Exodus and the burning bush as "I Am". (All names have a meaning in their original language; Ylanne means 'oak tree' in Hebrew.) On the other hand, god is an impersonal noun which can be both an abstraction and a concrete reference to an existing idea or entity and is not a personal name.

The original admonition in the Mosaic covenant not to take the LORD's name in vain is better translated as not to take YHWH's name in vain. To swear to someone was a very serious thing. Words were believed to carry great power. Names have meanings because they were given to children to describe the circumstances of their birth, a belief of their parents, or a desire for their future. Thus, the ancient Israelites venerated the name YHWH so much that only the High Priest uttered it something on the order of ten times in a calendar year, before a gathering of the whole people, who would all prostrate upon its pronouncement (and of course the High Priest had to be ritually purified before uttering it). Eventually, it was only pronounced once a year, at the ceremonies observing Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. Its usage passed into the taboo when it ceased to be said aloud.

In Hebrew, vowels are not written as letters between the consonants, but as diacritic marks - dots, dashes, and such - around the consonants to indicate the vowel sounds. During worship services at the Temple, readers of Torah would say "Adonai", a word that means "My lord", in place of each instance of the name YHWH (a personal name). To remind readers, the diacritic marks with the original vowel sounds for the YHWH consonants were replaced with the diacritic marks for the word Adonai around the consonant letters YHWH. (This caused the misreading Jehovah). Thus, the actual name YHWH which is the personal name of the God generally accepted as worshipped by Jews and Christians has lost its original pronunciation through extreme veneration of this commandment. Yahweh is simply the most accepted form.

Because of this, I respect many Christians' abstinence from the phrases "Oh my god" et al. as I too refrain from them, but I think all Christians ought to be aware of the preceding information regarding what the Name of God refers to.

As far as my characters in my writing and roleplaying are concerned, I say it depends on the character. In real life, plenty of people do swear - some very rarely and only under exceptional circumstances, and others regularly, with the f-word punctuating nearly every spoken clause - and it makes sense that at least some characters would swear at least some times.

As Sato mentioned earlier, it would be perfectly within character of some of my characters to drop words like the f-bomb, whereas it would be completely out of characters for others to do so. Viktor Sodoro, who is a mob boss associated with the Italian mafia in New York and Wing City, has a particularly foul mouth. His profile in fact warns other roleplayers of that fact, for those who might not wish to read through posts containing what would otherwise be deemed excessive vulgarity. On the other hand, Zakariyyah Elaraby, an FBI agent with the Behavioral Analysis Unit, and Tahira Ali, a former terrorist, are very composed people who wouldn't be caught dead uttering a profanity. In contrast, Fatin Farah, a computer hacker and terrorist, and Omar Durrani, the Director of Central Intelligence, are prone to swear when faced with exceptional situations, meaning they are neither potty-mouths nor choirboys.

When I was a middle school student reading To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee, our entire class looked bashfully at the teacher when the student reading aloud stopped just short of the word 'bitch' (or perhaps it was the word 'bastard'?). Our teacher told us that while she absolutely disapproved of swearing and would certainly send anyone who did so to the office, when the words appear in a literary context, we are simply quoting the author's text, and are not actually using the word out of anger or towards someone else.

I take the same approach with my writing. While I dislike and refrain from swearing, I do not shy away from it when under appropriate circumstances in my writing, with characters who, were they real people, would utter profane language. I do not censor people in roleplays of mine unless they seem to be swearing gratuitiously without an in character context.

--

TL;DR
I don't swear OOCly, but some of my characters sometimes do ICly.

I'm reminded of Where the Red Fern Grows and the passage "It was rare for a bitch dog to fight, but fight she did." As opposed to the origins discussed above, a few other mild oaths and epithets actually have regional variance in intensity (the most common example being the usage of the word "bloody" in reference to the blood of Christ in most British drama).

Unlike most people in this thread, I swear about as much as I know I'm allowed to under the circumstances when my temper flares, though I take care to stay away from derogatory terms aimed at specific ethnic or cultural groups, and my characters tend to reflect this. While they tend to swear with about the same frequency as myself, colorful language tends to get replaced with words or phrases appropriate to the character's upbringing, such as Cryoface's "By the Lords!" in reference to the eight Elemental Lords of his home (the creator goddess Lorithia being an entirely different matter).

In short, where, when, and how a character uses choice bits of invective can say a lot about not just his mood, but also his past experiences and background. Thus, it can be a valuable tool for development.

Agreed with Andrew on that point, in his second paragraph. When Fatin swears, she almost always uses the Arabic word, from her native tongue, rather than the English she almost always speaks during roleplay. As in regional variants of English or Spanish, there are regional variants in the sorts of expressions and profanities used in different areas where Arabic is spoken, and reflecting Fatin's upbringing - constantly uprooted and traveling all the time - her Arabic is a mezcla of the various dialects, rendering her speech somewhat stilted when she is not using colorful language. Her mixture of regional expressions and swear words might be laughable or confusing to a native Arabic speaker, but this is a reflection on her upbringing.

Similarly, the character Viktor often uses ethnic slurs in his native Italian when referring to anyone who does not share his ancestry. While I avoid using ethnic slurs in my own life, this particular character is a narcissistic ethnic nationalist whose personality shines through in his choice of insults. He uses Italian ethnic slurs to refer to other nationalities and races, but the rest of his swears are in English.

Well, my reasoning was thrown out the window. Now it feels like my post wasn't nearly as educated and put together as everyone elses, but hey you learn something new everyday huh?

Don't worry about it, Vain.

Seriously, don't worry about it. I don't care how many fancy references get thrown about, how many famous things get quoted -- your opinion is all I wanted here, and if I got it then that's the end of the story, and I didn't much pay attention to anything else.

Regardless of whatever they may be fluffed with, everyone's input is appreciated.

Including yours.

Thanks for taking the time to write up a reply!

Hey now, I didn't put fluff in! I answered some inquiries and provided directly relevant information as a means of supporting my opinion AND answering other people's questions. :)

But like you said earlier Sato, I do appreciate reading everyone else's opinions. It's always nice to get a kick in the butt every so often to remind me that my opinion isn't the only one.

Yesterday my train's schedules were so fucked up I spent 6 hours on what I normally do in 3, the vending machines took my money but didn't want to return shit to me and a couple of assholes tried to harrass me as I had to walk home because the trains fucked up so bad there were no driving busses left.

Needless to say I was pissed. I've cursed in probably three languages and vocally listed a whole lot of diseases you really don't wanna catch. I know it ain't a good thing to do and I'm not exactly proud of my vocabulary in those states of the mind but... I'm only human.

And so are my characters. I'm pretty damn sure I curse more than my characters do too. Let's count what I got so far in this post; "fucked up" "shit" "assholes" "fucked up" "pissed" "damn" That's 5 times without even realising it.

Recently I wrote a short story. The word she most commonly used was 'fuck', or some variation on it. Hell, the reader didn't know the name of one certain character because to the reader she was "that bitch" for almost the entire story.

On the other hand, I also have a very religious character in an RP and even though... He's as corrupt as they come and lives in a different era, he doesn't curse in the name of, but substitutes those curses for other words. You get the same impression, while maintaining character.

Because most of my characters tend to be chaotic neutral or evil, I rarely have characters that don't curse. However, there are a few (admittedly most are NPC's) that don't. I don't think it makes them any less of a person or any less human because they don't, for whatever reason it may be.

I tend to avoid writing curses in third person though, minus the speech-bubbles.

This all is more a scatter-brained opinion than a sophisticated answer to the question, but yeah... I think what I'm trying to say is that I don't really care.

Not a bad thread and for the most part I try to keep my characters pretty clean.
As Skall said if used strategically they have their place.
However if you're rp'ing a scene from GoodFellas.
Having Joe Pesci's character sensor himself would be the same as showing Mary Poppins in a micro-mini, fish nets and smoking a cigar.

I am an adult and try to keep heavy language down particularly in the presence of those who deserve that kind of respect but I have been known to cut loose every now and then.

I can't remember all the points that could use addressing so I just got to the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

I like this thread. Muchly, even.

On that note, when it comes to swearing, I do have to consider the character first and foremost, and the mood they're in. I have one character (Aerilyn) who's absolute worse swear is "Oh, apples and oranges!"

And no, she wouldn't say that while being shot at. She wouldn't curse when being shot at, she's go into escape/defense mode. She blushes just to hear other's curse. But that's just who that character is.

I have another character(Milo} who casually drops curse words into everyday conversation, as he doesn't use them as curses, rather as adjectives. However he wouldn't use (Ylanne, stop confusing my Baptist sensibilities.) God's name in vain. He wouldn't say God with a capital g at all. Or, considering his family background, god at all. Rather he speaks as if the Egyptian gods, which he follows as a religion, are normal people also, as his family is rather excessively touched by these gods, and rather than causing reverence, it has caused familiarity.

Milo won't curse in French or Arabic, however, both of which he was raised speaking. This is because his grandfather was a very strict disciplinarian when it came to their native tongue, but excused in in English, mostly due to prejudice against English-speakers. So he didn't hold that language to the same standards, therefore cursing in that language was neither good nor bad. It simply was.

I can tell you I work hard not even use God's title in vain, as I was raised a Southern Baptist, and to be a Southern Belle, and some of that is reflected in my more gentle characters. And despite seeing real life instances of the fact, none of my child characters would curse. Not unless they wanted to suddenly lose their ability to speak for a good month, and they very well know that.

I myself am not a big curser, as I firmly believe in the power of words, and how very dangerous they can me. Curses, it is taught, very briefly, in Sunday school as a child, have the power to be real. Because of this, and my own desire not to hurt people, I try not to curse at all.

As a writer, I understand however I need to know how to use them, so I spent a year learning how. And for someone who had never cursed before that year, it was a learning experience. Because of it, I may occasionally, normally only when emotional, snarl a curse. When someone is being cruel to me, whether intentional or not, I'm likely to snap out a curse, mostly because it stops them in their tracks.

For that matter, the sight of me cursing stops most people who have met me in their tracks. That is how rarely I will curse.

In writing, cursing depends on the culture of a character and how much they were disciplined as a child. Even in the most apt to curse cultures, you will find some will not curse because they were so strictly raised against it. So in writing, it depends solely on the character.

I will not however give the words further power by censoring them. If I am playing with a sensitive player, then I will refer to the curses being said but not use them by request only. There are words I do not consider curse words.

Hell is a place to be, real and frightening and not something to tell someone to go to. Personally, I won’t use it. I can’t recall off the top of my head ever having a character use it. So there, I do set a firm limit. Even for literary value, I won’t condone a fictional character to that.

Oh! Just recalled an instance. Parson. But Parson curses with the bravery and astonishment of ten year old boys everywhere. Nowhere near his parents, or teachers, and in whispers and blushes. And even then, he doesn’t curse often, preferring to call people jerks or meanies or a variety of other childish insults.

That’s all the facts jack, and while not as lovingly researched as Ylanne’s, and very much all rambling opinion, it’s how I view things.