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And God is in quotes because I don't mean the Christian God, I mean any god.

Personally, I choose to remain undecided. I find it strange that there is an all powerful being above us that controls everything as we know it, yet there are things like cancer, wars, violence and so forth. I mean, I've been raised a Christian and know the bible half decently and God is supposed to be fair and forgiving. Someone who judges people honestly. So why doesn't he get rid of the world's worst? Now that's just one God.

But then there are miracles, namely the gift of life. Or when someone survives something tragic like a disease or that girl who a few weeks ago escaped from her kidnapper after being held for 18 years. Now she's with her family. Things like that are miracles for sure.

Ultimately, I'm left unsure of what to believe and personally I prefer it that way. So now the question is for you: Do you believe that there is a higher being above us, or is it just something people made up a long time ago to teach people right from wrong?

I'm officially a Christian as well, and a Catholic at that, but I don't really believe in a God.
I've heard this argument between my two best friends, one who's a real Church-Goer, and a strong believer, and other one who doesn't get any religion.
You've got war, famine, floods, disease, natural disasters, worldwide poverty, and the Junior Cert. If there is an all-seeing, all-loving and all-forgiving God, then why the hell did He kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in the first place? Why does He let all this happen?

I've been suffering from a back problem for three years, the cause of which is unknown. My parents have had to fork out a lot of money to go see doctors and get X-rays and MRI's and all sorts of other crap done, and I'm still no better off. In fact, I'm nearly worse. My parents really can't afford to keep up if I need anything else done. My dad's job isn't 100% safe, and neither is my mom's.
I was bullied from the start of my Primary School days to the end of the first year of Secondary School. I'm socially useless now, and have more than a bit of an issue dealing with problems in class, or asking someone for notes, because I'm afraid of being rejected, and the whole cycle of events I've experienced before will start. I still sometimes have nightmares, where I'm back in the playground.
If there is a God, even He couldn't do anything about the actual bullying, couldn't He give me the courage to stand up for myself, or help me just get over it?

However, I believe that there is a higher power, that does influence things, and I do believe in some sort of an after-life, maybe something similar to reincarnation. I've experienced strong Deja Vu in Paris, even to the point where I was able to direct my friends to a particular shop in a shopping mall--despite having never been to mainland Europe before in my life, never mind in France.

Way to bring up a heated topic.

Personally, I do believe in a god. I believe in one god, which is neither 'female' or 'male', but I usually use the male pronoun instead of 'it', because I live in a primarily patriarchal society, where we use "he" to refer to any unidentified or nonspecific entity. i.e. "If a student requests help, he should receive it", regardless of whether said student is male or female.

More to the topic. I don't believe a god or many gods were made up for the sole purpose of teaching right from wrong; the vast majority of atheists I know have a sense of ethics and right and wrong, and clearly don't believe in a god, by nature of being atheist.

I write on these kinds of ideas. . . at. . . Fugitive Seeking Truth, my blog with unconventional and unorthodox reflections on faith, politics, ethical issues, etc. . . . and yeah. . . I would write more, but people will probably twist my words, attack me, flame me, and/or not care what I have to say. . . and I have other things to be doing. But hey, if you want to hear more from me, just shoot me a message. Or something.

Now...I don't exactly believe in a god, I believe that there is some sort of Overbeing watching over us, for I have experienced miracles, and I know death quite well.

In fact, when I was around 11 years-old, I was nearly drowned by my uncle, I remember seeing some sort of light, and complete darkness behind me. I know it sounds cliche, but, it is, sadly, true. I remember (Faintly) begining to move towards the light, but my legs weren't moving, I saw I was hovering, cold, clammy hands gripping at my feet, I was being pulled down. Then my eyelids fluttered and I regained consciousness.


Yes, I believe in an Overbeing watching over us, causing miracles, but he cannot stop the nature of the human mind. He created us in his likelyness, but with faults, unlike himself. He created us (Unintentionally) as a war-like race of beings, my greatest fear, is humanity. Thus, I conclude my opinion, and bid thee farewell.




---~~~--- The Mysterious Jaebird

If there is a god who's so loving and forgiving, why does He not let homosexuals into heaven. Surely He made them the way they are. Or people from other religions. Surely 'God' would agree that everyone is entitled to their own belief, and what they choose shouldn't restrict them from eternal happiness.

I'm an incredibly strong believer in Karma. Everyone has what's coming to them. And if they don't receive it in this life, they sure as hell will when they die. I believe something happens to you when you die - what it is, I don't know. But there has to be something. And that's when Karma's coming to kick you up the jacksy.

I also have a theory ((and sorry for offending anyone in advance but it's something I really need to say)) about Christianity and the birth of Jesus. I believe this particular religion is based upon one woman serously sticking to her story. It's what I believe and I stand by it.

wiltingrose wrote:If there is a god who's so loving and forgiving, why does He not let homosexuals into heaven. Surely He made them the way they are. Or people from other religions. Surely 'God' would agree that everyone is entitled to their own belief, and what they choose shouldn't restrict them from eternal happiness.

I'm an incredibly strong believer in Karma. Everyone has what's coming to them. And if they don't receive it in this life, they sure as hell will when they die. I believe something happens to you when you die - what it is, I don't know. But there has to be something. And that's when Karma's coming to kick you up the jacksy.

I also have a theory ((and sorry for offending anyone in advance but it's something I really need to say)) about Christianity and the birth of Jesus. I believe this particular religion is based upon one woman serously sticking to her story. It's what I believe and I stand by it.

I'm a Christian, and I thought your statement was funny in a good way. I disagree with it, clearly, but I'm not particularly offended.

I will say that I don't believe in condemning homosexuals. I believe there is only one path to God, and only one path to being redeemed from evil by grace. . . but not that people should judge each other, or persecute one another, which is exactly what most conservative Christians I know do, inadvertently, or with full and clear intent.

And. . . I'm writing something with someone else at the moment, so I can't even focus on what I was trying to say. But yeah.

But see, I don't really believe in Karma because I have a horrid older brother. He never lets be just be and enjoys mocking me. I keep a cool face (usually) and despite the fact that we have been fighting for several years, I can't exactly see anything bad happening to him. I mean I guess Karma is paying me back because my life is very nice and there is nothing I would change about it, but what goes around doesn't seem to be coming around. So either Karma isn't real exist of I am impatient.

I am a Christian, possibly converting to Catholicism from Protestant in the summer, more detailed-Assemblies of God denomination. In today's society and generation...it's a little difficult to be a Christian, honestly. Christianity seems to be under attack a lot these days with a vehemence that startles me...and it's even mostly against different Christian denominations against each other! I talked with one friend who said she was pushed away from Christianity because in a mall a group of them called her a heathen for wearing all black. I believe that it's our job on earth to evangelize and spread the truth of God. However, it's also hard sometimes to remain a devout Christian because of all the 'evidence' against Christianity, and other reasons already stated. For example, why would He do this? And this? And this? Catholicism has answers to everything, but seems to be not as personal of a relationship. But that's about my answer. People basically need to accept whatever people want with their own lives. Voice an opinion if you feel necessary, but leave it at that. Everyone trying to shove their belief down people's throats have never worked and only causes resentment. People on any side fighting for extremes is wrong.

Merry Christmas! Spend all your money and become more broke like me in this awesome economy regardless of your religious beliefs!



~Articous

Articous wrote:I am a Christian, possibly converting to Catholicism from Protestant in the summer, more detailed-Assemblies of God denomination. In today's society and generation...it's a little difficult to be a Christian, honestly. Christianity seems to be under attack a lot these days with a vehemence that startles me...and it's even mostly against different Christian denominations against each other! I talked with one friend who said she was pushed away from Christianity because in a mall a group of them called her a heathen for wearing all black. I believe that it's our job on earth to evangelize and spread the truth of God. However, it's also hard sometimes to remain a devout Christian because of all the 'evidence' against Christianity, and other reasons already stated. For example, why would He do this? And this? And this? Catholicism has answers to everything, but seems to be not as personal of a relationship. But that's about my answer. People basically need to accept whatever people want with their own lives. Voice an opinion if you feel necessary, but leave it at that. Everyone trying to shove their belief down people's throats have never worked and only causes resentment. People on any side fighting for extremes is wrong.

Merry Christmas! Spend all your money and become more broke like me in this awesome economy regardless of your religious beliefs!



~Articous

I love you. <3

I attend an Assemblies of God church; however, I find that the vast majority of AG attendees are religious right, fundamentalist conservatives, and as a rather decidedly liberal nonconformist, I find that I am often quite out of place (on the belief spectrum) among my congregation. But I wouldn't keep going if I didn't like the people there, huh?

By the way, I am liberal. Don't get me wrong - I am NOT a 'conservative' or 'fundamentalist' Christian. With that in mind, read:

If it is Islam or Judaism or Zen or Hinduism or Ba'hai or Wicca, to say "I disagree" or "I think that's ludicrous" is politically incorrect and suddenly intolerant; however, to disagree or attack Christianity is the norm and no one blinks twice. Don't get me wrong here. I am a scholar of comparative religion, and I am a very open minded person, and the vast majority of my friends are Moslems and Atheists (obviously not both for the same person, for obvious reasons), but this is very true!

No religion is attacked in the way that Christianity is. It's intolerant if we don't let Moslems take breaks for prayer (those who observe all five obligatory salaat times), but it's a violation of the first amendment if we let Christians put up a nativity scene on the town green. Putting something in public doesn't mean that the government condones it (it's public land for Pete's sake!), and putting something in public isn't shoving your beliefs down someone's throat. What about wearing a cross, or a hijab, or a Sikh turban, or dreadlocks, or a pentagram? Most of the time (in America, at least), we don't see any of those things as shoving that person's beliefs down our throat.

I don't believe in shoving people's beliefs down others' throats. I don't believe in saying "You need to convert to my religion to be saved". In fact, I don't believe conversion to Christianity (my religion) is necessary to be 'saved' (I prefer the term 'redeemed', for reasons not explained here). And I don't believe all who profess Christianity are in the right either. . .

I'm just saying.

Peace!

Ylanne wrote:If it is Islam or Judaism or Zen or Hinduism or Ba'hai or Wicca, to say "I disagree" or "I think that's ludicrous" is politically incorrect and suddenly intolerant; however, to disagree or attack Christianity is the norm and no one blinks twice. Don't get me wrong here. I am a scholar of comparative religion, and I am a very open minded person, and the vast majority of my friends are Moslems and Atheists (obviously not both for the same person, for obvious reasons), but this is very true!

No religion is attacked in the way that Christianity is. It's intolerant if we don't let Moslems take breaks for prayer (those who observe all five obligatory salaat times), but it's a violation of the first amendment if we let Christians put up a nativity scene on the town green. Putting something in public doesn't mean that the government condones it (it's public land for Pete's sake!), and putting something in public isn't shoving your beliefs down someone's throat. What about wearing a cross, or a hijab, or a Sikh turban, or dreadlocks, or a pentagram? Most of the time (in America, at least), we don't see any of those things as shoving that person's beliefs down our throat.

I don't believe in shoving people's beliefs down others' throats. I don't believe in saying "You need to convert to my religion to be saved". In fact, I don't believe conversion to Christianity (my religion) is necessary to be 'saved' (I prefer the term 'redeemed', for reasons not explained here). And I don't believe all who profess Christianity are in the right either. . .

I liked everything until the last paragraph there Ylanne (just look at my answer to wiltingrose to see why).

Hi, I'm Ceur'Caelesetos and I'm a Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian. Woo I'm in the especially hated group!

Alrighty time to answer some misguided questions so far:

wiltingrose wrote:If there is a god who's so loving and forgiving, why does He not let homosexuals into heaven. Surely He made them the way they are. Or people from other religions. Surely 'God' would agree that everyone is entitled to their own belief, and what they choose shouldn't restrict them from eternal happiness.

First and foremost let me set you straight(no pun intended). God does not send homosexuals to hell because they are homosexual. The bible clearly states that in gods eyes all sins are equally evil in gods sight. (I.e. having gay sex is the same as murder which is the same as theft which is the same as lying etc etc) So to say homosexuals are sent to hell is like saying its not fair that I'm going to hell because I said one white lie. In God sight both are worthy of hell. However God said that there is one way to heaven, and that is through believing in his son. So that is why people of differing religions won't get in. Simply because the only true religion isn't a religion at all. Its a relationship with the creator of the universe and his son.

wiltingrose wrote:I also have a theory ((and sorry for offending anyone in advance but it's something I really need to say)) about Christianity and the birth of Jesus. I believe this particular religion is based upon one woman serously sticking to her story. It's what I believe and I stand by it.

Problem with that is Jesus claimed to be the Messiah at a point in history when doing so was a death penalty. Then his followers died for their beliefs, and not in pleasant ways mind you. Peter was crucified upside down for his beliefs. Would you die for a guy who was a fraud after he was already dead? Also the innumerable prophecies that had been fulfilled by people he had no control of, like the casting of lots for his clothes and etc. Anyway it is a faith, thus I can't prove to you that she was not in fact lying about his birth.

TFairy wrote:You've got war, famine, floods, disease, natural disasters, worldwide poverty, and the Junior Cert. If there is an all-seeing, all-loving and all-forgiving God, then why the hell did He kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in the first place? Why does He let all this happen?

Let me answer your question with another question. Ok for this question lets just say we are in a kingdom. Then I go and steal a priceless diamond from the king. All because I was told by this witch that it would make me into a king of my own. Then I give this priceless diamond to my friend so he can become a king too. Instead of making us kings it just makes us realize that were are only servants and that we stole from the good king. The good king that has shared everything with his servants and given all he had to us so we could be happy in his kingdom.
Now if you were this king what would you do to us?
You wouldn't have us killed, even though we deserve it because we stole your precious priceless diamond. You could lock us up but since you are such a good king you have no prisons. So instead you banish us from your kingdom, with the promise that if we continue to believe in your goodness and justness then we will eventually be let back into your kingdom.

That is the story of Adam and Eve in a nutshell.

Now the part about why there is evil in the world.

Ok so you know (as a practicer of the faith) God made us to have a free will. Going back to the kingdom analogy, I freely chose to steal from the king. Sure the king could have sent his guards to stop me and make me listen to reason, but instead he let me freely choose to disobey him. Then my friend freely chose to accept my gift of the priceless diamond, when he knew it was against the law to have the diamond. He could have turned me in and spared himself banishment. The reason why there is evil in the world is because there are people in the world that chose evil. Also natural disasters can be caused by the witch or otherwise known as Satan. He is wanting people to chose him over God so he hurts them so they and others will doubt God and his existence.

Any other questions? Just Pm me. As long as your civil, I will be too.

Hope I was helpful,
Ceur'Caelesetos

Ceur'Caelesetos wrote:First and foremost let me set you straight(no pun intended). God does not send homosexuals to hell because they are homosexual. The bible clearly states that in gods eyes all sins are equally evil in gods sight. (I.e. having gay sex is the same as murder which is the same as theft which is the same as lying etc etc) So to say homosexuals are sent to hell is like saying its not fair that I'm going to hell because I said one white lie. In God sight both are worthy of hell. However God said that there is one way to heaven, and that is through believing in his son. So that is why people of differing religions won't get in. Simply because the only true religion isn't a religion at all. Its a relationship with the creator of the universe and his son.

I've seen you on this site somewhere else.

Let me redress your concerns. Your concerns are common among all Christians, 'right-wing', 'left-wing', or whatever when I present such a brief statement. I do not believe Christianity is the only way to heaven. I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven, by whatever name you call Him. There is only one God, The God, and "god" isn't a name. The only way to be redeemed is to have faith in the sacrifice of Jesus, the gift offered by grace (meaning we don't deserve it - and I certainly don't) to we who have freedom of choice, and who often and usually choose badly. Sin, that is to say.

Nevertheless, I believe that someone who has a misconception of what we call Christianity, or who has never heard of Christianity, BUT who has faith in God/Jesus, is redeemed. I believe that starting around the time when Christianity became the dominant religion of Europe, it became important to change the labels on everything, instead of turning people's hearts to God wherever they were, and through their existing traditions and cultures.

That's what I meant.

So in essence, I am agreeing with you. But semantics kills us all. ^^

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne

:EDIT: You said something like "I'm a right wing fundamentalist Christian. Woo! I'm in the most hated group." or something very close to that. I didn't copy-paste this time, so forgive any spelling/word mistakes/omissions/substitutions. I don't hate anyone.

What I find is that the vast majority of non-Christians tend to assume that all Christians are in your line of belief, when in fact, not all Christians are. But the same is of Christians, who I've found tend to assume that the vast majority of non-Christians either don't care about Christianity or hate Christians. . . and that's not true either.

So I always want to make clear when I post anything on such a topic that you shouldn't read what I write through the lens of a bias that I don't have. . . but through the lens of the biases I actually have. To be more accurate, y'know.

So God sees killing another human being the same as saying the dog ate your homework?
Is that what you're saying Ceur'Caelesetos?

Let me just make it clear that I do not mean to cause offence to anyone and there is no way i'm setting out to cause offence.

I would like to believe that - if there is a God - He would be a bit more understanding than that and forgiving than that.
Which brings me to another problem I have with this religion - anyone can ask for forgiveness and be givin it. I went on a Christian camp a couple of years ago so I'm not making blind comments, but I was told a person like Hitler can go to heaven, while a 16 year old boy who never got a chance to ask for forgiveness when he lied to his parents about a party can go to Hell. It just doesn't make much sense to me is all.

wiltingrose wrote:So God sees killing another human being the same as saying the dog ate your homework?
Is that what you're saying Ceur'Caelesetos?

Let me just make it clear that I do not mean to cause offense to anyone and there is no way i'm setting out to cause offence.

I would like to believe that - if there is a God - He would be a bit more understanding than that and forgiving than that.
Which brings me to another problem I have with this religion - anyone can ask for forgiveness and be given it. I went on a Christian camp a couple of years ago so I'm not making blind comments, but I was told a person like Hitler can go to heaven, while a 16 year old boy who never got a chance to ask for forgiveness when he lied to his parents about a party can go to Hell. It just doesn't make much sense to me is all.

You know you have good questions.

So here are some answers.

To your first thing:
You wrote it backwards. God sees saying the dog ate your homework is as bad as killing another person. They are both sins justly punishable by a just God. What you have to understand here is that we are all deserving of hell. It is a hard concept to grasp because people commonly think that Christianity is based upon one's actions. When in fact it isn't. Jesus merely says that you must believe you are a sinner and that the only way to be with God when you die is to believe that Jesus is the only way. That is what the Bible says, thus it is what I believe.

Of course it is more then that, because how I see it is like walking up to a person you know is cool and asking him if you can sit with him. They say "yeah" and you sit at his table. Now what do you do? Well you start talking to him and hanging out with him to get to know him. The longer your with him the cooler you find him to be. So you hang out with him more and more. You think that your relationship with this guy is so awesome, so you tell all your other friends "Hey guys you oughta hang out with me and this dude he is pretty awesome." They reply "Nah man, I mean he is too good for us." or "Dude, look around do you see anyone smart around that guy? I say steer clear of him." or "Bro, he is friends with some serious losers. Like that one friend of his is an ex-convict, You should high tale it out of there."

So then naturally you either have some doubts about this guy, or your friends. One or the other has to give. Sadly most people disassociate themselves from jesus so they can hang out with their friends. Then when asked about their faith they don't have the right answers so then non-believers use this and say that all believers are following blindly.

Sorry I kind of went on a tangent with my analogy but I hope it helped answer your questions mate.

I'm not really convinced but I guess i can see your point. I believe in Karma, not really 'God'. But I think I am starting to get it. I don't think I'll ever be really religious but I strongly believe everyone should learn about all other religions and be accepting. Afterall, understanding is the first step towards peace.

I believe in the idea of God in the sense that God is explainable, just not today.

I'm anti-religious. Nothing good comes of a system where people think they are right and everyone else is fundamentally flawed.

All I'm going to say on the subject.

Jesus was anti-religion too...
The only person he ever got angry at were the pharisees which were the religious leaders of the day.

Like I said true Christianity is not a religion but merely a relationship with the guy who created you with love. Its like having a good friendship with your Dad. Honestly Catholicism doesn't recognize that fact and instead buries its followers with rules and mandates, lots of which are not biblical in my opinion. Like the whole Hail Mary thing is dumb.

Mary wasn't a deity so why should I worship her? She was just a mortal person like I am. She isn't above me just because she gave birth to the messiah. Just like saint worship bugs me. They were mortal men, and in my opinion would be appalled by people worshiping them like they were the Christ.

Don't get me wrong here, they were great men and women of God but they aren't supposed to be worshiped. Its like the Israelites and the golden calf when Moses was on the mountain for a month. Soon after Jesus left people started to worship the religion not the deity behind it.

No, I do not believe in any type of god.

Alrighty thus far this has been a civil discussion. However I will interject my usual warning-

Please remember our rules:
• No trolling.
• No spamming.
• No obscenity.
• No disrespect.
• No arguing.

Continue using civil discourse to debate points.

Skall

Lord have mercy on my soul! For I, am a believer! Seriously, yeah, I believe in God.

And Eisenhorn, this is for you:

You got your history wrong bro. The Crusades weren't a religious war per say, but toppling the Muslims would have been somewhere in the Byzantine Empire's agenda, maybe. I'll give you a hint though: Trade.

You got to remember that armies are basically used for two things:
1. Taking land, resources or wealth
2. Defending land, resources or wealth

Take a look at the history.

Maybe you've noticed that defending people isn't in there. Armies serve the interest of the state, not the people. If you wanted, you could say the people are the state, but that would be pointless and it also proves nothing. But hey, you seem content with what your state is doing in other countries, so props to you. You're a good citizen, a role model for your society. Keep it up. WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. Right? Wrong.

The USA didn't bring about the tech leap, and the dark ages were in Europe, not everywhere else in the world, just so you know. You really need to brush up on your history to give credit where it's due. But I don't blame you. I know it's hard when you live in a bubble. You're not the only one, so don't think I'm picking on you alone.

But damn... I'm really hoping that you're not thinking "God gave the USA more technology so they could set the world straight." That's like a Father saying to his five year old kid, "Here Son, take this Ak 47, and set the world straight." Good going Dad. I guess we're all fucked now... So please, check your insane theories at the door. Honestly, I think its the fault of people like you, saying the dumb shit you do, and attributing it to religion that makes a lot of intellectual people close their eyes to God.

The USA is a Capitalist state, not a Democratic state, but that doesn't mean you don't have freedom and equality among the proletarians.

Here's my sincere advice to you: OPEN YOUR MIND.

I hope you don't get the wrong impression of me because I like you, you're a believer, but that's about all I like about you at the moment.

By Ford! They're distributing the soma. I better get going.