Sorry about this, but this is a more appropriate place to say this than anywhere else.

I'm so sick of people debating about stuff they really know nothing about. I'm a Theology student and I hate when people talk about religion in depth and try to prove to one another that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

People have been doing that for thousands of years and even the best educated of them can't, so what makes you think you can do it?

Don't get me wrong, I think it' great if people are interested in religion, but I hate when they spout rubbish and parade it as fact. I don't debate things I don't know about, and I won't state something unless I am absolutely sure about it.

Everyone is entitled to opinion and faith. I don't question that, but don't try to break someone else's down by spouting lies. Especially in front of a theology student who has lived and breathed the subject for at least three years and is studying under some of the world's experts on the subject!

Rant over, thank you for listening, if you have an opinion, please deposit it below

I must say..thank you. religion aside...I hate anyone who argues about something they don't know and trys to make facts appear out of thin air. I feel your pain...

in regard to religion, I'll be honest. I'm Jewish by birth, but I didnt study enough to have a fully developed sense of it. luckily I have no qualms about arguing someones beliefs and forcing people to actually take a close look at the difference between belief and fact.

good luck....

Die Jew!, Talk about your Grammar Nazi's jk there riddle. I wish I was, but Im only a 8th Jewish, but hey who isn't these days.

One question...

Are you trying to prove you are right, and they are wrong?

who...us? I could care less. I think everyones wrong in some way..

No, I was making reference to the starter of this thread.

you're getting the whole wrong end of this...

as a Theology student I'm not trying to prove what's right and wrong...

Everyone is entitled to believe what they believe...however if they want to base this belief in "fact", I want them to have their "facts" right, for example what can be archaeologically proven and what can't be. Or for example saying that a religion believes something, when clearly it doesn't.

Religion seems to be the worst subject for this...everyone says they've "studied the bible" or "studied" religion. If they had they wouldn't say some of the things they do is all.

Get your facts straight is all I'm saying; Not telling anyone their belief is correct or incorrect.

Oh, I know you aren't saying that someone's belief is correct or not.

You are just saying that they are wrong, and you are right. In the fact that they are arguing without knowing the full facts.

It's a fact I like chicken. Could some random dude fifteen gabazillion years in the future prove such? Nope.

And, maybe, just maybe, people enjoy arguing about such things for the sake of it.

Are they wrong to do so? Are you right for saying they are?

That there, is MY own point.

he's not saying not to argue...
just be informed...and know the topic..

So what IS your point?

I'm sorry but I've post a few times, and I'm kinda of lost as to what you're saying...

are you saying that fact doesn't matter?

I understand your point about not all things be "provable", that agiven...

My argument as I have stated before, is about people stating that they know something is factual when it's clearly not. This is more to do with people who think that because they watched a documentary, or because they read something on the internet, they have facts.

Debate till the cows come home, but it still doesn't change if something's factual or if it isn't.

I would like people as Riddle just said, to be informed if they want to debate. I'm not going to debate with someone about powered flight, because I don't know anything about it...and to be honest, I'm not really refering to this forum, I mean in general in real life...it happens all the time.

You say people are entitled to their beliefs etc etc and there is no right or wrong to that, but people aren't allowed to have an uninformed debate?

Yeah, it is kinda lame, but that is their choice, surely? Just as it is their choice as to what they believe.

Besides, whats proof and whats not is opinionated, which makes facts opinionated, which makes arguing about facts connected to religion pointless. Most of them teach good values anyway, and help people deal with their fear of death, so what's the problem? As long as no one goes around slamming each others religion its so much more fun to laugh at idiots that debate on which religion is right or wrong. Nothing supernaturals happened in a thousand years so its all kind of a mute point isn't it?

I'm saying people can have an uninformed debate...but an uninformed debate suggests that no "facts" are paraded.

Are YOU saying that you wouldn't be frustrated in a discussion about something you know quite a bit about, when people say things you can clearly see are incorrect?

At least you must be able to see WHY I'm frustrated by such a thing?

I am by no means an expert on the subject and I don't pretend to be, but when people hear I'm a Theology student they want to spout DiVinci Code at me, and are DESPERATE to know if I think Jesus was really married to Mary Magdalene. People want to talk religious FACTS not opinions.

As I said,things that far in the past can rarely be known for sure, therefor any arguing about facts that old are pointless. It's hard enough to figure out some things that have happened in the last twenty years, and people are questioning things that happened 2000+ years ago. It's all old news, and chances are we'll never know.

And yes I see why your frustrated, but it's like complaining the sun's too hot, theres not a damn thing you can do.

well I suppose if I were to use that logic there's very little point in this board at all. That could be the footnote on any thread here really.

Oh and Mr Hyde, you haven't read any of my posts properly. "Fact" denotes that something stands up against scrutiny as truth. For example, scholars hold as fact that Jesus actually existed, because there is plenty of evidence to support it and a lack of evidence to suggest he didn't exist. At a later date that might change because of some new evidence, till then this stands as fact. What isn't fact is that King Solomon actually existed. There is no real evidence to suggest he did, so for the moment fact suggests he didn't exist.

This is how it works, and I shouldn't be frustrated if people say they KNOW Jesus didn't exist and they can PROVE King Solomon did?

No you shouldn't. If they're wrong, well then they're wrong. So whats the point? Does them believing that really hurt you? Does believing that someone that died hundreds of years ago really existed matter? I don't think so.

Also there is plenty of point to this board. Not necessarily things concerning fact and fiction, but right and wrong, or things that need to be done in the future. Stuff that hasn't been dead for centuries.

Right I really don't know how to come back on that to be honest. Perhaps you should suggest to the admin that they stipulate that in the description of this board. I really shouldn't have wasted mine time with this if that's the case.

To answer you ...no, it doesn't hurt me...it FRUSTRATES me...as I said. But I'll TRY not to be frustrated, because of course it's not like anyone places belief, or governmental systems and laws on things that have "been dead for centuries", oh wait, they do! Not that that's important or anything. Not like there are people in the world who are willing to die and kill others for those reasons.

Not like it's important for them to make sure THEY have their facts straight. Not like it's important for people to be educated.

Well I agree with you on all that except the last part =). Too many idiots are running around today because we gave them a crappy education. Besides, governmens, an beliefs, are ideas. How they started doesn't matter as much as what they are, and they are timeless. =P

alright I'm sorry. Hyde...you don't know what you are talking about. people aren't given crappy educations, its just that most people are so conceded they don't put time in to study, don't stay in school, and damn sure don't go to college and get stuck doing crappy jobs and wondering why people like Asians (and no not all of them, but there is a quantitative scientific statistic stating such) who do well in school have better jobs. they aren't smarter than anyone, they get beaten for having bad grades. we as American people have simply become lazy about education and stupid in the way we coddle people. do not blame education...when its the ignorant to blame....

...There is so much that induces Rage in here I am not sure how to begin....

Taran, name me one contemporary source that is not the bible that mentions the man named Jesus Christ lived in Bethlehem around 33 AD (+/- 6) years. That is a matter of faith. The Jewish scholar Josephus does not mention this man at all, and if any of the Biblical texts were correct, a prophet causing a major disturbance would at least get a one sentence blurb in his books.

Also, ignore Saladin. He's so angry at the world that he can't bother to do anything but troll rational discussion because he hates things he cannot control. Hell, I would post more about it, but for fear of de-railing the topic.

To Saladin. This topic is more of a RANT if anything else, saying that if people want to believe in religion, the flying spaghetti monster, or the great and terrible lord Cltuhlu, fine. IF however, you want to use FACTS to back up your FAITH, you should be prepared for people to flame and call you out on your nonsense.

EDIT for spelling.