Adopt Abandoned Universes.

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Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 2.50 INK Postby mombie on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:29 pm

This does not obviously pertain to CLOSED universes.

I understand that continuing something that a GM started would be best, but I am not going to kid myself by pretending that they come back. They almost never do. Ever. I have never seen one that spontaneously started again. Right now, just in the last month alone, we've had almost three RPs either start and stop or never start at all. There is no way to continue because we can't accept characters that are completed because the GMs chose to leave, so those people cannot post in the universe.

That leads me to a question. There is a GM in one of the RPs that I have two characters completed in that has not returned to the site since Nov. 20th, and they are neither longer accepting completed characters nor are they answering questions posted in the OOC. They have promised to start a couple times, even said maybe a little after the 25th.

Understandable - just holidays, a new year. They could come back, they could not. What if they don't? Is there a way for people that want to continue the RP to become curators, or for the Universe to be adopted by someone else? That would be great feature, honestly. So many RPs are being utterly abandoned by their GMS and leave the rest of us active people either dropping the RP or having to create a new universe and carry it on.

I mean, they abandoned it - it should become free for people to carry it on. The benefits are that it is less Universe clutter, RPs can accrue new active members, and people don't become continuously disheartened because they've built awesome characters, plotted, and created great relationships for no reason at all. I don't see anything that could go wrong with it, and credit to the original GM can be easily given in the Copyright section. I did this for "Calamity" since it was originally created by Crybaby from "Havoc".

TLDR; Can we please adopt abandoned universes?

EDIT: I also understand that I know little to nothing about coding or designing, so when I mean I don't see anything that could go wrong - I don't mean from the side of the coders and what have you. I just mean that I don't see many issues with us regular members. Nothing I can think of anyway!
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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Remæus on Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:41 pm

In lieu of an "abandon" button for active GMs to mark their Universe as available for adoption, what criteria would you think to be acceptable for a takeover in the case of an inactive GM who disappears without clicking such a button?

We tested a "view source" button in the beta a while back, which allows for a fast and simple means to get the formatting code of anything cool you see, but I think a GitHub-like "fork" option (like we used to have for characters) is another potential solution. It'll be nice to have revision history in the upcoming updates, as they'll enable tracking of subsequent changes in case the original creator wants to include them in back upstream in the original copy.

Eager to hear what you think about the conditions under which takeover would be acceptable.
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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 2.50 INK Postby mombie on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:34 pm

I wouldn't call it a complete take-over, I think. I am not sure, honestly. I am more or less thinking of a means to actively continue the RP without the presence of an active GM.

Let's take one of the RPs (really two) that were created by two GMs that seemed to have dropped everything suddenly. Havoc and oakville. The GM in Havoc was CryBaby who was in cahoots with the GM that created Oakville. This was an easy partnership to note right off of the bat. When one left, the other left. Both GMs abandoned their RPs and left us all with carefully constructed characters and wonderful relationships for naught. Now, I recreated Havoc under a new identity as Calamity - but I think it was unnecessary, to be honest. We know that, for the last almost three months, both RPs have been abandoned. We notice their lack of presence on BOTH Discord servers. We know that they are just gone. Now we have two universes just sitting there, one recreated, and it's all just clutter. The process of creating a Universe is time-consuming, and coming up with little differences to combat plagiarism was a bit tedious. Though I gave CryBaby credit where it was due, linked to the original RP, and whatever else.

As far as criteria to consider the ability of an INACTIVE universe to be adopted by an INACTIVE GM can be boiled (broiled? idk English), to a simple list.

  • If there is an obvious plea from members of a particular RP to inquire about activity that has either slowed down or stopped, and it is going unnoticed and unanswered by GMs over a period of time - that should be considered abandonment. There are some cases where accidents happen. internet goes out, the computer blows up - whatever. In my opinion, those are rare. GMs really just abandon RPs they lose interest in.
  • If screenshots are provided of PMs asking for the whereabouts of GMs from other members over a period of time and even those go unanswered, I feel like it is safe to say that they've left town.
  • For Universes with active Discord servers, if those are even void of GM presence over a period of time, that should be considered GM abandonment.

Attempts to communicate in every way, coupled with the 'Last logged in' information, should be exhausted before considering an RP abandoned. I consider Havoc and Oakville abandoned. Accidents and emergencies happen, but I find that people will figure out a way to communicate such. Two people abandoning an RP at once can't be that much of a coincidence.

Even then, if a full take-over is delving into uncomfortable territory, perhaps allowing an Admin to help get a regular member of that RP into a position of Curator (to approve characters, edit, etc), would honestly just suffice. It's not plagiarizing, it's not usurping, it's just trying to fill in the void left behind by a GM that can no longer commit. "The rules in all of these RPs are the same - you should post at least weekly, after two weeks we will blah blah blah. After such and such time, we reserve the right to kill or remove your character." Why should the same rule not apply to the GM? I'm starting to feel like we are like... test bunnies or something for people to just come and throw out a Universe, have us create characters and relationships, and then abandon us entirely. It's happening SO FREQUENTLY that people are more comfortable with just 1x1 RP now.

One of the RPs with activity rule that was obviously not abided by the GM that has been gone since Nov. 20th of last year.
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I'm not quite sure what else to say other than something has to give. I don't know what half of this techno mumbo-jumbo means, but I do know that the energy we spend on characters we love and never get to play because of abandonment is drying out. I know that roleplayers are hesitating to continue applying to new RPs. I know that 75% of RPs aren't going to last, and that's just being kind. I think that there could be a real difference in this energy if regular members had the power to do something about being abandoned other than having to create a new Universe and start over. It's always easier to absorb people into something already completed, and it's even easier for the GM to come back if they so choose (though it's no highly unlikely).

I'm not talking a complete take-over, but I guess that will be what naturally happens as people move on in an RP that was abandoned by a GM. I am just asking for the ability to continue - to accept new characters, to make edits. I already said this, but I want to reiterate that it's not an intentional take-over. I think moving on might be a better word for it?

I would love to hear what other people think about this, honestly. I just feel like we know when we've been abandoned, and there should be some way we can petition for the power to continue without the GM. Especially for those RPs that never start where half of the characters that are complete have yet to be accepted, therefore couldn't post if we wanted to just start it on our own anyway.

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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 1.50 INK Postby LawfulAnnon on Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:15 pm

Hello there! I just wanted to join the conversation because I agree with Mombie and she is bring up a point that has been bothering me too when it comes to this site.

I’ve been in several RP’s that I’ve gone cold all of a sudden because the GM left and it’s especially frustrating as a player, because you want to continue the story and you’ve gotten immersed in this universe and the fact that the GM just drops it off all of a sudden makes it hard to continue. Due to the fact, you have to replace their characters or possibly coming up with a whole new story. As a player, since you’re not the creator of the universe, don’t have a lot of power to do that. I am in Havoc, A Uniting of Two Houses, and Oakville with Mombie and it hurts me that I created two or more characters that I am very attached to and I can’t see them grow because I can’t do anything to continue the role-play.

I understand there is an issue with plagiarism with trying to take someone else’s work. In a previous RP I’ve done I’ve had a Co-creator in a universe I made. I don’t know what their responsibilities were in the role-play, but maybe having something like that would help bridge the gap? At least someone to accept characters and maybe people could apply to be a creator for a universe that has clearly been inactive for certain amount of time? I’m fairly new to coding and don’t understand all the legal implications that will come from it, but as someone who enjoys role-play and likes RPG Gateway as a site to use, this issue has honestly made me consider going elsewhere because it can get very upsetting to get attached to a character and love the relationships you created, and the story lines you thought up and you don’t get to play it out, because the person creative universe decided to back out last minute, it makes everything seem pointless.

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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby mombie on Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Hello. Is anyone going to do anything about this? Or is it going to be so long as there is activity in the Multiverse that the rest of them don't matter? Over 5 role plays in the last 3 months have been abandoned and not started by their GM's. In All of those universes, there are people willing to continue without the GM. However, we cannot proceed without accepting those that have completed characters, but were not accepted. Is it that you do not care about the bulk of your members? We don't roll play in the Multiverse. Our love is in the rest of the universe's. . However, there are GM's coming through and having us make characters but not starting them. We are being abandoned after a lot of hard work left and right.

Is it really going to take too much of your time to use your judgment to see if we can continue those roleplays If you can get someone else to be a curator? Or at the very least answer private messages when you are messaged? What is so hard about this? Is GM's have so obviously abandoned them. Why aren't you guys discussing how to allow members to continue these universes that have been abandoned without Word? Why do we have to beg for stuff on this site?

I know 100% that I messaged the site admin about this issue regarding one of the universe's, but have been met with silence. This whole ordeal is frustrating. No one wants to try to go into another role play anymore for fear of abandonment. There are people with a total of eight to 10 characters that have put a lot of work into those characters only For GM's to abandon the universes. You can at the very least let us know what you're thinking about the topic. This is really unfair. We are not freaking guinea pigs. Help us continue these roleplays without the GM's instead of having to recreate them. .

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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 2.50 INK Postby ChaoticMarin on Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:59 pm

Hey again Mombie. Unfortunately, there's very little we can do about people flaking on their commitment to a roleplay. Even in the best-case scenario where a new GM steps in and continues, the same thing can happen if the new GM also flakes. It's just kind of one of those universal struggles of RPing, y'know?

However, that is not to say that we are rejecting your idea. Right now there are some legal concerns that honestly you don't need to worry about, but with regards to the idea itself the main concern is a system of implementing this that isn't too harsh on GMs such that we have other angry members coming to us asking why we took their RP away from them and gave it to someone else. Or why we allowed a member to steal content they worked on and use it in their own RP. Ideally, we want a solution that avoids all this. Would it be okay to just have a button that 'clones' an RP with you as the leader, or would that anger a lot of creators? I'm certainly not confident about that.

We also don't want to put an undue burden on the members themselves to make this happen.

We can't automate anything related to Discord very easily, especially with regards to member-made discords we don't moderate or have control over, so I'd like to avoid that.

In my head, I'm imagining a button that appears if a roleplay goes without either character approvals or posts from a GM for maybe a month that users can press and once a certain percentage of the roleplays members press this button, the site sends out PMs and Emails to the GM in question asking for their attention. I feel like that would be the most efficient and professional way to put a GM on notice.

I'm not sure what the best solution would be after they're put on notice. Maybe Rem could work up some tech sorcery way to clone the roleplay such that the original stays around if the GM wants it back. I saw him mentioning that before. I feel like that might be the best solution if we're looking to minimize wait times, since taking away the original roleplay from the creator is such a harsh punishment I feel like most people would not want to rush toward it.
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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby mombie on Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:12 pm

It's a harsh punishment to abandon people that spend hours and days on characters, graphics, CS and Relationships with others, too. That's what is hurting us the most - our effort being brushed aside simply because a GM had an idea and no follow through. One person matters, but the ten people that applied to that roleplay and are left hanging matter a hell of a lot. One person cannot simply matter more than the majority. I suppose that is personal opinion.

Regardless, I get that there are a ton of legal repercussions. Cloning another RP is the same as taking it over, is it not

For now, I suppose I will just check in with the several RPs that have been abandoned or on the verge of being ghosted: Meilleur Academy, Argonauts, (I already recreated Havoc), Uniting of Houses, and Oakville to see if anyone will help revision them.

There just HAS to be something that can be done. Even if it is just accepting the remainder of the characters via some kind of Admin so that we can just RP without the GM. I don't think that continuing the RP is necessarily taking it over... but maybe that's just me.

Anyhow, I am not going to argue. I get that this is a tough scenario, but revisioning RPs is just clutter - and it's a harsh sentence imposed on the rest of us who really don't want to GM an entire Universe. It's a lot of work.

I was almost thinking that maybe RPers need to prove that they are active in some way before being allowed to create a Universe, but that might also be too harsh.

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Re: Adopt Abandoned Universes.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ChaoticMarin on Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:49 pm

Well, I try not to judge others harshly--though I understand why this upsets you. There are a great many reasons someone might abandon an RP, and I'd prefer to exercise understanding and work toward a solution that benefits the site as a whole without infringing too harshly upon GM rights rather than looking at it from a strictly oppositional perspective. If such a compromise exists, which I think it does, I'd like to take it.

As for cloning an RP, mnno. When you clone an RP, you get two RPs. One owned by the original owner, one owned by a new person. The difference is that if the original person comes back, they still have access to what they originally created. By doing it that way, we help avoid some worst case scenarios which allows us to make the process more efficient, which ultimately means faster resolution of problems.

Since it may take quite a bit of time to implement this feature and I have a hard time imagining it being done right away, I do agree that the best course of action right now is to copy stuff to a new RP.

With regards to accepting characters, the only reason we can't do it that way is that GMs don't have the power to then un-approve a character or get rid of posts if they don't like what was approved. We would be sorta vandalizing someone's RP at that point and leaving them no recourse if they wanted to undo our decisions. I think that would ultimately be subject to the same concerns that taking over would cause as a result and provide a less satisfying result compared to other solutions.

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