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A.N.G.E.L. The Eniknight War

Disagreements.

a part of “A.N.G.E.L. The Eniknight War”, a fictional universe by XxEvil1xX.

The Artomidian National Govt. is fighting a losing war against the more advanced Stratian Republic in a brutal battle for survival. Desperate, the ANG introduces anew prototype aerial armor that soon changes the face of war and blurs the fabric of reality

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This conversation is an Out Of Character (OOC) part of the roleplay, “A.N.G.E.L. The Eniknight War”.
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Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:00 am

I first want to clear the room by saying I am not mad because this is something I didnt explain earlier but in the ffuture I want to see lengthy ooc dialogues like this moved over to this forum. Quick little OOC one or two liners are okay but anything longer than that I cant have cluttering up OUR post section.
That said I am going to try to help two of you resolve this.

1. Tsuiakari I have already given you the approval for your battlecard however Iwant to make a change to it to make it a bit fairer.
When you roll your crit. You are going to roll your 10 damage then I want you to roll a 1d25 for any further damage, should you land a 20 then you may instantly go again (any following damage from the 1d25 will not be doubled.)
2. Aeri and Vages performance after their eniknught creation does not need to be put into question. It was mentioned that the enights healed and strengthened their bodies not to mention an hour transition has transpired.
3. While tearing up the armors are cool I think we should give their integrity more credit then they are worth. Armor penetration is acceptable but I really only want to see it when a person is dangerously low on health. No helmets being destroyed right of the bat.
4. Eniknights are the closest things to gods this world is going to see. Especially later on you are going to witnessome insane attacks. So I am not going to hinder a persons creativity with their attacks as long as the damage is in accordance. Aeris eniknight may be swift and abundant with attacks however maybe her attacks are weaker and the multitude serves as a componsation. Embrace your creativity but use logic on whats too over the top and ask yourself if your attacks match the damage that you have inflicted.
5. I want complete dice rolls and HP lost stated.

I ask that you two as my coGMs either move or delete the OOC conversation from the post section as soon as you can, Tsuikari I ask that you roll your 1d25 and if you land a hit you may leave your attack alone, if you miss you modify it to where you dealt 10 damage. Kumori you may edit any post needed to state your helmet is fine.

I am off to go put my cousin in the ground now, I am hopeful everything has been resolved when I return.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tsukiakari on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:57 am

Alright, I'll erase my part of the conversation. However, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by requiring a change to my skill card. The change you suggested - a second roll that, if successful, allows a second attack in that turn, from what I can gather - has nothing to do with the skill card as originally intended. The skill card is a 1 turn bonus that can be extended, not an extra turn. 0.o Could you please clarify what you mean when you come back?

Also, I'll make a note of that damage thing. Just void all of the talk about chipping away armor plates and such, then. I was just trying to be dramatic. X.X

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby JokerofSpades on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:15 pm

Funny you should mention that Evil, because I will be away all weekend at my grandfathers funeral... (actually, there is no humor in this at all.)
I shall try to post before hand, but I make no promises.
..
...
What's that, the picture is gone? Damn it all. Uh, move along, nothing to see down here besides these words.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:56 pm

It was a very cool read TsuiaKari, I cant at all discredit your ambitions for making a very climatic scene so nothing to be sorry about. That said I am weighing fairness for everyone and damaging Vai's helmet is an awesome scene however would have fit in more so when his HP is at say 5. This would at least justify why this diamond like armor can be hacked apart like wood, because continuous damage would do a number on its integrity.

As for the battle card I have mostly reached my decision on wanting to tweak it after looking at Vais health dropping. I've noticed that dealing 15 damage every time a crit is rolled with no chance of missing seems a slight bit too powerful. I am aware it separateness from the original idea however know my intent to modify this is not out of malice but rather to balance everyone's abilities as best as possible to insure a good fun role play for all.

In doing so I will offer you this proposal. You may create a thread to where you can argue against this amendment. Explain in detail your attack and if you can get two of our roleplayers to vote in favor of it. We wont have it changed. :)

(also roleplaygateway does not allow for the complete deleting of post, which is why I said to move it here. At the very least what Tsuiakari did was perfect and if Kumori can do the same thing with his OOC dialogue then thats the best we can ask for.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tsukiakari on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:43 pm

There really isn't a need for that, Evil. You seem to have misunderstood the skill card, and that is all. In fact, none of the card's bonuses have even taken effect yet, as they will only come into play on Aerionelle's next attack. I dealt five damage to Vai before the crit was ever rolled, and ten damage from the crit, adding up to a total of 15 damage, but not being dealt in just one hit. The card's effects are much different from that, instead adding a +1 to my attack roll and to my damage in the turn AFTER the crit, as well as adding another +1 to my damage and -1 to enemy damage for every subsequent roll over 20/36 I make and +2 to my damage and -2 to enemy damage for every subsequent crit I make, all bonuses to be broken if I ever roll lower than 20 or if I am struck by a critical hit. Also, the +1/-1 boosts to damage can only stack up to three times on a target (including myself) and the +/- to damage is added/subtracted AFTER a crit, meaning that instead of, say, causing a person to go (Attack: 5-1, Attack x2 for crit: 8) I cause (Attack: 5, Attack x2 for crit: 10-1.) The same applies to myself, with the damage bonuses added after, rather than multiplying into, a critical hit.

Thus, it's not 15 damage per crit - 11 or 12 at the very most anyone could actually expect to be rolled - has a decent chance of missing - more than half of all possible rolls would instantly break the skill card's effects on the turn the miss was rolled - as well as having only rather modest, if diverse bonuses for a Skill Card when compared with other cards such as Vage's "Extra turn upon crit," or Aster's last stand ability, which I won't even bother to defend save by saying it's really a tactically stupid move due to all of its drawbacks.

I hope this cleared things up. If not, then I'll create another thread to explain the effects of the skill card, as instructed.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:52 pm

Perhaps you are right and I am just not understanding it. I dont know if its just been a very taxing week for me, or Im just burnt out from my classes or what but I get dizzy and overwhelmed reading the explanation for your card. Hell maybe I'm just stuck on phonics :P
Its just seeming too complex and I have no idea how to write this in on the card details to where it will be understandable. And I am worried that the complexity of it may scare off other members, unless I am the only one who doesnt really get it.

If need be you can help me understand it more via skype. my ID is: jbfirstdown22. I used it to help explain the general dice rules to Tanman, and explain A.N.G.E.L. to SsweetSserenity; a very helpful tool for clearing things up.

Anyway you can see why I am on the fence on this matter. I dont want to take away a card you worked hard on yet at the same time I dont want to overwelm others and let a card slip by me that I, myself dont even understand.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tsukiakari on Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:28 pm

Alright. I'll give you the cliffnotes version - labeled by my turns - then, since my sesquipedalian loquaciousness and excessive verbosity are probably the reason why it's ending up so confusing.

Turn 1: Critical hit. No effects during this turn.

Turn 2: I get a +1 boost to my attack roll (I.E., increase from an attack roll of 16 to an attack roll of 17.) and a +1 boost to my attack damage (I.E., increase from base damage of 5 to a damage of 6.)

Turn 3: If in my attack in turn 2, I roll higher than 20 (19, actually, since the +1 bonus applies during the turn) but score only a normal hit, then my damage is further increased by 1, and the target that I attacked in that turn has their damage reduced by 1, starting during their next attack roll. If my roll in turn 2 was a critical hit, then my damage is further increased by 2, and the target that I attacked in that turn has their damage reduced by 2, starting during their next attack roll.

Turn 4: The same rules for extension apply as in turn 3, in relation to my rolls during turn 3 just as turn 3's bonuses are in relation to my rolls during turn 2.

Turn 5: Same as before. If I score rolls over 20 in turns 2, 3, and 4, then my bonuses reach their limit, and any further rolls against the same target will not further increase my damage, and will instead simply prolong the effects of my skill card. However, if I begin rolling 20+ hits against a different target, I can still lower the enemy's damage by 1 point for each normal hit, and by 2 points for each critical hit, until 3 hits with a roll of 20 or more have been scored, at which point the debuff will be maxed out on that target as well. I cannot, however, boost my own damage more than three times, no matter what target I am attacking.

Should I fail to roll a 20 or higher, or be struck by a critical hit, all bonuses from my skill card in that turn and all future turns until its next activation are instantly negated. Also, my roll cannot exceed my maximum dice number (I.E., if I roll a 36, the +1 bonus to roll does absolutely nothing.) and I cannot lower a target's damage below 1, for obvious reasons. (This would be incredibly difficult to accomplish anyway, as it would require at least 3 back-to-back critical hits.)

Does this clear things up? If not, what is it that's confusing you specifically?

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:09 pm

Alrighty TsuiaKari I will give you the green light on this attack providing you can give me the cliffnotes of the cliffnotes so it will all fit on the card I am making you, but after reading your latest post it DOES seem like a fair card to use (lol despite its complexity in understanding) :)

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby KumoriRyuu on Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:28 pm

Tsukiakari, you should at least try to pay heed to all the details of previous posts. Vai wasn't just sitting there watching you, he was prepared to defend himself. So next time, if there is a next time, at least do me the favor of explaining how you broke his guard instead of just miraculously landing an attack.

Also, this is a question for Evil: Is the insane and out of control abilities of Aerionelle's suit being allowed because it is actually possible or do you just not care to address them? From what I understand all the suits more or less start off with all the same stats and abilities when you first get them, yet Aerionelle is continually pushing her suit to do things that it doesn't sound like it should yet be able to do. There hasn't been any evolution to adjust to her by the suit, so how can an "off the wall" suit model do so much already? Despite her fantastic simulation scores and whatnot, how is it that she can do so much? It just doesn't seem to fit the design of the Eniknight process to me, but then I've been wrong already about a few things so please help clear this up for me.

I just want to understand it is all. I know it sounds like whining but I'm actually curious as to why she can do so much with a brand new and supposedly unremarkable suit while the veterans, who've had time to evolve their suits over the last few years which should be more powerful than hers, are getting their asses handed to them. Again I'm not trying to whine, I'm just trying to understand.
Kumori Ryuu

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:31 pm

I appreciate you asking that Kumori, and no worries at all, I see your motives of asking these things exactly as you are wanting me to and that is to gain a full comprehension of the ins, outs, pros, and cons of this roleplay.

First just to reassure you this roleplay is my baby, I pride myself so much on the first ANGEL RP that I want this one to surpass it greatly, so in no way am I apathetic to what is going on with all that is going on in the roleplay, and I believe the conversations here on the OOC forum we hold that I try my hardest to get ironed out is proof of that.

In regards to my handling (or lack there of ) of Tsuiakaris attacks, I would like to go into detail on something about this roleplay that may have been buried in the many post of these forums, and that is what makes A.N.G.E.L. stand out from other roleplays. Even though I have orchestrated the main template of how A.N.G.E.L. is, with its setting, specific characters, weapons, and physics I have chosen to not make every aspect of A.N.G.E.L. absolute. What we are doing right now by exchanging concerns and ideas via this forum is setting the beauty of this roleplay into motion. I have opted that even though I do have final say on matters that I limit what I control to allow You the muns, the very backbone of this roleplay to have the liberties to mold this roleplay to your all's liking.

There are things here and there that I myself personally would not post in this roleplay like the shedding of armor scene we have just read simply because its something I myself do not envision, however if it doesnt escape certain realms of logic and physics then I see it as being valid and something we could build upon. I am quite sure at least one if not all of you are not particularly fond with me having a powerfully endurable and sophisticated armor manifest itself out of pure energy that is harbored in a crystal, yet if you see it the way the writers and staff of an anime view some of the qualities of the shows they create, you will see that things like that make their story work and flow.

A great example of this is that you mention that the veterans are seasoned with the eniknights and have been practicing with them for years. Originally I intended on the veterans to only be maybe month experienced with the armor, but if you guys would like for it that your characters have secretly been practicing with the eniknights for years, then that works perfectly and we are going with it :)

So I guess to describe it in better terms, I have made A.N.G.E.L. like an artist would make clay for his art team. And because I am wanting our masterpiece to be a team masterpiece I am having you as my team sculpt it how you see fit, all I am giving you is a few guidelines here and there.

Now of course we will come to disagreements, on matters like the one that you and Tsuiakari are respectfully handling (cheers on that btw). There is nothing more I would hate come out of this roleplay then for the muns of this RP to be rivals rather than their characters. I want us to be passionate yet not so much to where someone ends up hating being on here because they dislike a person; so I am certainly hoping things will never come to that. So in a way that I hope to remedy disagreements on matters to hold a vote in which I will only moderate to prevent bias. If there is some thing that you feel very strongly for or against that can not be settled one on one with the person you are with, post the problem that you have (in a respectable manner) on a separate thread which I will label "A.N.G.E.L. Democracy." After you have posted that problem, post a solution to that problem to follow it, and if at least two other people have voted for it, then changes will be made. This may apply to anything from liberties a character has, to the card system, to how the site looks.

Again Kumori thank you again by providing your feedback and questions, it along with everyone else's opinions and creativity is what will shape A.N.G.E.L. into a glorious Roleplay. Have no guilt in your questioning and commentating for I view you all as my coGMs.
Last edited by XxEvil1xX on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tsukiakari on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:44 pm

Actually - I'm sorry if this wasn't clear - the only things I've done are as follows.

A: Use basic weapons mounted on the suit, powering them up beyond their normal capacity using Chi, which all Eniknights are capable of using.

B: Use the unit's basic booster systems, pouring all remaining power into said systems and actually overclocking them beyond normal capacity. As I said before, this ISN'T going to be without side effects in the future, as you'll be seeing in a post or so. Note also that this max power to speed and weapons setup has also completely deprived the Lindwurm as it is now of any defensive countermeasures such as chi barriers, etcetera, and with its shield gone, blocking is essentially now impossible.

C: Purge damaged equipment from the frame. This is probably the most controversial and iffy thing I've done during this battle, since I'm not sure Evil originally intended this to be possible. On the other hand, I'm also assuming that damaged weapons and broken powered armor would have some means of detaching themselves from the unit so as not to weigh it down and deplete its power supply while providing a serious threat of an explosion should defective equipment go critical. It would only be reasonable to have a countermeasure against such a critical failure even on the most basic units, so I used one. Also, due to Aerionelle's affinity for utilizing purges to lighten her suit's weight, this is eventually going to lead to her suit's full purge ability once it starts evolving.

As is, Aerionelle's suit diverges from a mass production model in two ways: gun on the left arm, shield on the right arm, due to her dexterity preferences.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:45 pm

I will however put my foot down on this as head GM. Take heed to police the wording of your opinions to safeguard them from seeming malicious and hurtful. While you may not agree with how Tsuiakari posted, she did spend a lot of time and effort to do so for the well being of this RP. I am sure she does not appreciate wording like insane and out of control to describe her hard work, and I do not either. It is in EVERYONE's best interest to keep opinions from becoming personal attacks, and while this is a friendly warning I will take action next time a post with the intent to discredit another roleplayer appears on our forum. Please, let us be civil with how we handle things.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby KumoriRyuu on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 pm

Noted.

I didn't mean any disrespect by the words 'insane' or 'out of control', they were just the first ones that popped into my head when thinking of a way to describe Aerionelle's tactics IC. I wasn't trying to say anything about Tsukiakari's posting. No, I am enjoying the friendly but still somewhat gritty action that's been going on since it's a big change for me. I have never been in an RP like this so it's all new to me and I'm still trying to adjust to the nature of it all.

Obviously I'm having some difficulty so all I can do is ask for patience.

Again, I am just looking to learn more about the RP and understand why things can happen the way they do. If I use words like 'insane' again for any reason it's probably just going to be because it's the most common word I use to describe all out action and intense scenery and imagery. Typically I mean it as a compliment, but I can see how it was viewed in a negative light this time.

I'll keep a closer eye on my words from now on.

Thanks Evil.

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tsukiakari on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 pm

I'm not offended at all, actually. "Insane" would be the word I'd use to describe it as well. Aerionelle is aiming not only to win, but also to test her Eniknight's literal maximum capabilities. Of course, she realizes that standard tactics would be easily predictable and counter-able by troops with more experience, better equipment, and the advantage of numbers, so she's countering that by fighting them in a way that their experience tells them isn't how a fight should be, breaking their equipment as fast as she can by overclocking her own, and dividing their forces by blowing up anything and everything that might prove to be a distraction or hindrance to her enemies. Essentially, she's just doing everything the way no sane Human being would, basing her strategy on confusing the enemy and holding the initiative, pushing her few advantages as much as possible. The fact that it's insane is literally the entire point. XD

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Re: Disagreements.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby XxEvil1xX on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:10 pm

oh okay, well my apology for taking it the wrong way

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