Feminism

a topic in Discussion & Debate, a part of the RPG forum.

Moderators: dealing with it, Ambassadors

Have a subject that you'd like to debate that isn't about roleplay? This is the place.

Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby dealing with it on Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:47 pm

Has feminism been beneficial to the well-being of humans? Do women really have epistemic privilege (extra knowledge) by being part of some less-dominant class? Do men and women see the world differently enough that there are interesting things to say about these differences, philosophically?

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
dealing with it
Groundskeeper
Groundskeeper
Member for 9 years
Contributor Conversation Starter Author Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Donated! Greeter Beta Tester Tipworthy Concierge Lifegiver

Re: Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Remæus on Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:26 am

I'm a big fan of the idea behind feminism — equal rights enshrined by law — but I regard man-made law as a universal transgression against the liberties granted by natural law. Once Western society recognized women's right to participate in democracy, at least the basic premise was fulfilled. Modern iterations on feminism seem like a lingering vestige of historical context, a latent outrage in search of a phantom oppressor.

Many modern "feminists" have ended up harming women through their policies, their chosen methods of execution casting aspersions on the individual's ability to exercise their own natural freedoms by deferring personal responsibility to an all-powerful Government. I don't think men and women are that different, certainly not anywhere near enough to warrant cries against "toxic masculinity" without a fair assessment of "toxic femininity".

We, in the west, have unprecedented access to opportunity. If only everyone, no matter their gender or creed, would exercise their agency and autonomy!
Alvin Toffler wrote:The illiterates of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.

Take a moment and consider joining my Patreon group, where I share personal development updates and plans for the future...

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Remæus
Architect
Member for 15 years
Contributor Progenitor Author Promethean Conversation Starter Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Builder Greeter Beta Tester Arc Warden Party Starter Codeweaver Group Theory Person of Interest Streamwatcher Helmsman Recruiter Maiden Voyager Tipworthy Salesman Property Buyer Visual Appeal Concierge Cult Leader Lifegiver Storyteller

Re: Feminism

Tips: 1.75 INK Postby rubytuesday on Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:04 am

Oof, I was really torn about whether or not to entertain this ("Has feminism been beneficial to the well-being of humans?" Bruh, I know you're making conversation, but yikes) but here we go, I guess.

Feminism was and is still necessary because there are (even in the "western" world) epistemic injustices and social structures that continue to harm certain individuals. As much as we tote equal opportunity, there isn't really such a thing. There are a multitude of issues that affect our individual access to opportunities, and often these issues take the form of institutionalised racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/ableism/etc. The feminist movement (at least the branches of this movement that take an intersectional approach), is but one group attempting to combat these issues.

Also, toxic femininity is very different from toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity consists of behaviours that harm both those exercising them and those upon whom they exercise them, whilst toxic femininity largely just harms the one expressing it (largely, not entirely). Neither are good, of course, but one is far more harmful and prevalent. They're also both rooted in misogyny, and a notion of 'femininity < masculinity'. And the feminist movement does actually tackle toxic femininity- however, it's usually framed more around internalised misogyny.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 1.75 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
rubytuesday
Member for 5 years
Promethean Promethean Conversation Starter Author World Builder Conversationalist Novelist Lifegiver Tipworthy Visual Appeal Person of Interest

Re: Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby dealing with it on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:13 pm

I agree with what you've said, rubytuesday.

Although I don't want to give these people a platform, I practically barfed when I heard about The 22 Convention.

From the website: "No longer will you have to give in to toxic bullying feminist dogma and go against your ancient, biological nature as a woman, the men have arrived to help [Make Women Great Again]."

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
dealing with it
Groundskeeper
Groundskeeper
Member for 9 years
Contributor Conversation Starter Author Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Donated! Greeter Beta Tester Tipworthy Concierge Lifegiver

Re: Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby mombie on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:49 pm

Made an oopsie
M•O•M•B•I•E
Kids. Roleplay. School. Work.

Stay away from negative people,
they have a problem for every solution.
--Albert Einstein


♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
If it doesn't open,
it is not your door.

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
ImageImage

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
mombie
Member for 8 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Lifegiver Visual Appeal Tipworthy Greeter Novelist Inspiration

Re: Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Lord Saethos on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:26 pm

I think part of the issue I take with Feminism in the modern day is some of the scope that its subsidiary fields of thought have. The idea that "everything is sexist, everything needs to be talked about" in the Western World often ignores that some of the problems we still face today aren't "universal".

To give an example, my Poli Sci teacher remarking that when "a woman is angry, sad, or emotional in any other way, she is called crazy". Yeah, some people today might call a woman crazy for that, but is this really common in our society? To me, it seems as though (in the West) its only a problem in certain social groups, certain mindsets. On the whole, our society isn't saying angry women are crazy, and likewise there are plenty of people that would call an angry man crazy, if he is behaving in a way considered "crazy".

Likewise, there's the issue of "unequal pay", which I have not (so far) witnessed on the bottom rungs of employment. Every job I've worked, women were paid the same as me. Did they earn as much as me overall? As long as they didn't have children, yes. Younger women or retired women don't always have family commitments that take them out of the work force, which is what some people have pointed to as being the actual problem women face, an "earnings gap". True, women in positions higher up the economic rungs are often paid less, and that may very well be sexist, but I don't think that can be applied to the whole of women, and we should focus on why it is that this is allowed and hasn't been prevented by law.

Of course, Socialist Feminists might suggest that the solution is to abolish capitalism. When money is erased, then women won't have to worry about wages, and neither will men. I don't personally subscribe to this idea though, and I do believe a better solution is to find ways of getting paid maternity (and paternity) leave more available for parents, especially in young families.

Another issue is the whole "sexism is everywhere" concept, the idea that sexualization is inherently bad. Yes, it can have negative elements, but on the flip side there are women (feminists even) who consider it empowering. So where do you draw the lines? And do some of those lines curtail free speech or free expression? And both of men and women for that matter.

Ultimately, I'd say broadly that I'm more in favor of an "egalitarian outlook", but I am happy to concede that women do still face obstacles today, and we should talk about them. Having said that, I'm less convinced by the idea of a patriarchy, but I'm more than happy to listen to the suggestions feminists (and other groups concerned with Social Justice) have to make on how things can be improved. And too, yes I think that these groups should be involved in the process of making change. After all, straight white men like myself don't have all the answers, and it would be foolish to pretend anyone did.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Lord Saethos
Member for 3 years
Friendly Beginnings Promethean World Builder Group Theory Tipworthy Conversationalist Author Inspiration Lifegiver Person of Interest

Re: Feminism

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ChaoticMarin on Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:04 pm

It's hard for me to look at the fact that I'm not property and can vote and am at least somewhat safer walking down the street than I would've been in ye olden times and say that feminism wasn't worth it. I also don't think we'll ever be done fighting for feminism, because equality will always be something worth fighting for. At least, not in my lifetime. I can't envision a world progressive enough that there is no more room for improvement, even in this one regard. Considering we in the US are currently flirting with fascism rather openly, it's quite possible we're actually going to be fighting a losing battle to protect the freedoms feminists fought for from being eroded away in the future. It's already happening with Bodily Autonomy, and if that isn't sacred--nothing is.

With regards to the criticism of Modern Feminism, though...

"Pop" Feminism is a bastard child of the real deal. There are a lot of people who claim to be feminists who endorse monstrously inhumane ideologies (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists), people who only "support" feminism for the social cred and spend most of their time bullying people they perceive as less "woke" than them on social media (Wokescolds), people who care more about the appearance of doing good than they do actually improving anyone's lives (Grifters), people who exploit the cause for money by using feminism to engage in manipulative media practices. ("Journalist" Grifters), and of course people who engage in destructive, opportunistic identity politics. (...Also grifters.)

These people often get away with way too much of this sort of behavior, and it ultimately harms people and just causes. In order to properly adapt feminism for the age of the internet and shake off a lot of the unfair criticism that gets leveled at the ideology itself, I feel that we need to take a more proactive approach to acknowledging and disassociating with these people.
Image
“I eat my enemies for breakfast; even when I already ate breakfast, and brunch!”

“But in my heart, I sometimes wish they would atone so that I could be that close to a friend.”

Check out my likes and dislikes post and my profile. Then hit me up!

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
ChaoticMarin
Groundskeeper
Groundskeeper
Member for 9 years
Beta Tester Contributor Promethean Conversation Starter Author World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Arc Warden Recruiter Cult Leader Hordemaster Group Theory Greeter Tipworthy Person of Interest Lifegiver Concierge Visual Appeal Donated!


Post a reply

Make a Donation

$

Become a Patron!

RPG relies exclusively on user donations to support the platform.

Donors earn the "Contributor" achievement and are permanently recognized in the credits. Consider donating today!

 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest