I guess i'm the Asshole.

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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Lake on Tue May 27, 2008 9:41 pm

@ Zhelir: Put there to serve us, so to be eaten could be in there too. I suppose for religious animal rights activists 'serve' has different meanings, such as being our partners or equals. Even though religion is big factor for diets in many different cultures (ex. Ramadan ), I think that it should come down to a personal choice.

I believe in my previous post that I didn't say if I would support eating meat or not. I do eat meat, I find it very tasteful, and I do not feel sadness or pity when I bite into an 8 oz. steak. I've never tried veal, but am open to many types of food and will try just about anything.
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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Mr Hyde on Tue May 27, 2008 9:50 pm

People meat is the best type of meat..... hmmmm tender......

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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ryand-Smith on Wed May 28, 2008 7:27 am

Zhelir, this is where the art of Christan Ethics comes up. Now, according to Genesis Man was given dominion over. Now the word Dominion at first means "Oh The Earth is ours to use as we want? Right?"
No, incorrect. That thought process is childish, and immature at best, and horrifically irresponsible at worst. Now the idea of being a Steward comes in. This concept of stewardship dates from the beginning of time, when God entrusted the earth to Adam and Eve and their offspring (cf. Gen. 1:26-28)

In a new way, all Christians are stewards of the earth and of the spiritual graces given through Christ's death and Resurrection. We have received not only the earth, but also many spiritual riches to be used to advance the kingdom of God (cf. Lk. 19:11-27). Our Lord expects that we will use all for His glory and the salvation of souls.

The Holy Bible wrote:Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth" (Gen. 1:26-28).

While some may consider the term "dominion" in this passage to be the only direct reference to "stewardship," the entire passage reveals that the stewardship expected of Adam and Eve and all of us has three essential characteristics. It is collective; it respects the purpose for which things exist; and it respects the dignity of each person.

One must take responsibilities to one's animals and the land, and that includes treating the Animal Well. Hell, if you want to use the bible of the Absolute law, No Rabbit, No Pork, No Shellfish, No Calamari, No Sushi (with Eel), No Catfish, No Crab, No Lobster, and No Shrimp, to list a few. Zhelir My Friend, please do not rely purely on the bible, because if we were to follow it to the law, you and I would be so guilty, that we would need to be stoned many times over.

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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Zhelir Darkfall on Wed May 28, 2008 8:04 am

You very, very clearly misinterpreted my post.

I've already stated my views on eating meat. I eat meat, I think not eating meat for any reason other than genuinely not liking the taste or religious beliefs is idiotic, and I can dig not wanting to eat things like veal because of how it's made, but meat as a whole, no.

I was referencing the bible in that apparently many anti-meat activists use Christian ideals to cite carnivores as being evil, when, as far as I'm aware, the bible states they're here for us to eat.
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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Angel_Melfina on Wed May 28, 2008 8:25 am

I'm backing Ryand 100% on this one, whether he misread Justin's post or not. I was about to reply to this topic with almost everything he said before I noticed there was a second page. >_>

I eat meat but have found myself slowly weaning myself off of it. I had to do a paper this past semester on how the media affects people's decisions to become vegan or vegetarian. I did this paper with someone who is vegan, and found it incredibly interesting. I was horrified by the videos and images my partner showed me. For this reason, I've made it a personal choice to eat less and less until I don't eat it at all because I have chosen not to support the way the meat industry treats the animals.

Now, I'm not saying that it's wrong to eat meat. I believe that God put animals on this earth for us, as Justin said. But I believe they should be treated humanely while they are alive.

As for the people arguing that it's manly to eat meat or that it's "American" to eat meat...I believe it's attitudes like that which cause other countries to hate the US. I mean, I've never been one to care what other countries thought about our nation, but that kinda irked me. Eating meat has NOTHING to do with being a man or being American; perhaps the media has portrayed it that way. I just think it is pretty lame and ignorant to say that and it is not any credible argument towards this topic.
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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Taran_Winterleaf on Wed May 28, 2008 8:44 am

Hi, sorry to poke my nose in where it hasn't been asked...

I'm a Theology and Religious Studies student, and I reaaaaallly don't think it's a good idea to start flinging around ideas based upon religious reasons for avoiding eating certain things. I don't know who it was who suggested the Christian element, as it's probably the most redundant of the lot. The New Testament clearly prescribes eating anything you want (although it frowns upon gluttony), Jesus says that it's not what goes into a man that makes him unclean it's what comes out...i.e it is what a man says and does which makes him evil. This is a Pauline idea in reality. It eliviates the guilt gentile converts to Christianity felt about eating pork (not beef here people). In fact it is indicative of a wider debate happening at the time, where Paul's gentile church came to loggerheads with the Jerusalem church who were Jews.

Aside from all the early church history, and the clear prescription for Christians to eat anything which gives them sustainance, there is really very little debate here. The really "religious" objections would come from Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims and Jews. The Hindu's honour the cow as sacred and don't eat it's meat, Muslims and Jews both follow the proscription against pork and buddhists prefer not to harm other creatures and refrain from meat (some will eat fish).

I think the real issue here is not "why" people disagree or chose to have an opinion. Why would my reason to eat meat be any stronger or more valid than anyone's reason not to eat meat? I just like eating meat and it provides my on a biological level with a good source of protein...I don't like Veal because like tripe, or hooves, or snout or tongue, it doesn't appeal to me. My reasons are as valid for eating meat as someone who refrains from it on the grounds of cruelty to animals or because they simply prefer not to eat it.

The real issue here is the "way" people promote their views. No one here has disagreed or denied that every human being has a right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. As you have said they also have the right not to have someone shove theirs down their throat. I don't want to offend anyone, but I've found that a lot of people who are pro-animal rights to the point of being aggressive and violent about it have become so because they can't relate to human beings very well. They might have social problems or a bad upbringing. Sometimes they might just want some banner to fly and pro-animal rights is the one they've chosen. Sometimes people in any walk of life will become sooo frustrated that their utopian ideas are not recognised for the black and white, wrong and right that they see them as. This leads them to brand others as stupid, ignorant or sometimes even evil.

Please don't think I'm branding vegetarians or all pro-animal rights people as anti-social and violent, but clearly some of them are, and that's why some of them will hurt their fellow human beings and property to make a point.

Perhaps under these circumstances we should consider that branding people with labels, or taking a stereotypical view is not very helpful at all for either side.

Superfly, I can totally identify with how that must make you feel. Being on the university course that I am over here in Scotland, I get people shoving their views down my throat all the time. Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim and believe me, the worst are those who promote no religious idea at all, except a kamekaze mission to disprove everyone else's beliefs. You will find them on every street corner. People will be people and unfortunately there's nothing you can do to make them "more rational" or "more understood", the only thing you can do I suppose is belief what they do or realise they will only change their ideals when they decide to and get on with things your way.

sorry for the enormous rant and for upsetting anyone

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Re: I guess i'm the Asshole.

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Cw Hart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:53 am

I like eating meat for the simple reason that I enjoy it. Never tried veil but did try deep fried pork intestines. Good stuff. But yeah I can respect people's beleifs when they tell me about them. You know as in talk to me at an even level. But when it's shoved in my face or talked to me like I'm beneath them, I can get hostile to the former, and usually walk away and don't associate with the latter. I think it is my right to believe in what I think is right as long as it dosn't hurt any humans. Animals on the other hand I could really care less. I like animals, but if I hear about how dogs were trained to fight and all of that it dosn't really effect me compared to how I would feel if human children were treated in a similar fasion. Now does this mean I'm cruel to animals? No it dosn't. Do I support cruelty to animals? Not really though like I said it dosn't bother me.

Further more TC, I don't know what I would have done in your shoes. Something tells him I would have been in a whole lot of trouble if I was in the same predicament. I always lived by the belief of showing respect and expecting the same in return. If I respect a person enough to hear their beliefs them they should show me the same respect if I disagree with them. Acourse this isn't always the case. Sadly I don't respond to hostility or smugness well, and that's really one of my biggest weaknesses XD.

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