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1 Million dollars for Haiti?

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1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:25 am

Okay, so as you all know...A gigantic earthquake affected Haiti and Obama decided to hand over a million dollars...
Do you think this is right for our country, who is already in debt, to do this?

Granted, we do help people out, but it is not our responsibility or priority to help out a country that is suffering from a natural disaster. You know...We go through hurricane attacks, tornadoes, all that crap, but no one ever gives the U.S. any money when we have dead bodies laying all over the place. I honestly don't think we have the money to be handing out to other countries. Yes, it does suck that a lot of people died, but everyone's gotta die at some point right? It's a horrible thing, but shit happens...you just gotta move on in life. I honestly don't understand how giving a million dollars will help out Haiti. The earth quake already happened. The people are already dead. All they can do now is rebuild and hope it doesn't happen again. I mean, giving them that money could help them rebuild and all, but it's not our damn problem. Or our fault.

We didn't curse them with an earth quake. Why is America always running to everyone's aide, when we don't even have the sufficient funds to support our own damn country? I don't want my tax dollars being thrown to another country over something we can't help or prevent. I think it's absolute bullshit for us to be helping other people out. No one ever helps us out. We're in a horrible situation, too, but no one ever comes to help us.


But that's just what I, as an individual, think about this situation...Now..

I want to know your thoughts on this...

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Orith Nar on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:37 am

Have a heart. We don't have people laying on the streets dead. We don't have people dying, and bleeding out in collapsed homes. This thing was terrible, if it were to strike the US, we'd have countries rushing to our aid. Also, what's even worse, is now they have diseases running rampant because the bodies are just laying in the streets, I mean for God's sake, we took long enough to even get there, the least we can do is hand over a million $ for rebuilding and vaccines. Also, think about it, they don't even have food anymore, everything was destroyed. We're all fucking blue-bloods here in the US, we don't have disease running through the streets, and bodies with rigamortus setting in laying in the rubble that was their homes.
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:45 am

We have people laying dead on the streets from hurricanes and tornadoes - they happen more often than earthquakes.

We also have the homeless people who are shut out of society because they're "nothing." There are poor people in this country, too, who need help. It's not just poor ol' Haiti. I do have a heart, but this is something that I'm not all totally for. It's just the fact that, we have a lot of things that we could be spending the money on instead - to help our own country.

You see schools getting shut down left and right for lack of money, or places closing because of the damn economy being so bad. And like I said above, the homeless people don't even have a lot of homeless shelters to go to. If we have enough money to help out Haiti, why can't we aide people in our own country?

I want to see more improvement on our own country rather than us just dishing out a million dollars every time a natural disaster/crisis happens.
And honestly, I don't believe other countries would be rushing to our aide. I think they'd just sit back and see how we'd react. We supposedly have all this money stored away, yet we're in the middle of a recession (or the minor upbringing of it.)
We are slowly trying to build ourselves back up from a suffering economy, and then we have enough money to be helping out another country?

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Illusionist on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:45 am

Even if an equivalent disaster happened in the U.S., we have the means to recover so we wouldn't really need outside help. America is still a very wealthy and well-off country despite the national debt. Haiti simply doesn't doesn't have supplies, equipment, or resources to save people so they need outside help.

I do agree with you about more aid to people in our own country though. Some people in America have horrible living conditions, but we are already spending far more 1 million dollars to fix our own domestic issues. In the end people are people and just because they happen to live outside of the boundaries of your country doesn't mean they don't deserve your help.
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tetrino on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:54 am

Consider that America's infrastructure is of sufficient quality and workmanship to withstand most natural disasters thrown at it, with casualty rates never exceeding ten thousand. The confirmed death toll for Hurricane Katrina was less than two thousand, with an additional 700 missing. In stark contrast, Haiti's death toll is estimated currently to be within the range of fifty thousand and climbing.

Consider that America is currently only in debt due to the gross imbalance of income perpetrated by the elite executives within the financial sector, who to this day are still the primary unintended beneficiaries of the bailout packages that are meant to benefit the middle-class worker. They are the ones you should be asking about all those closed schools and homeless unemployed and perfectly educated citizens.

Consider that America's GDP ranges within the TRILLIONS (that's 1000000000000) dollars per annum. One million constitutes not even 0.0001% of that sum. A million dollars for the United States of America is pocket change.

Also consider that America has received aid from other countries, particularly in the case of Katrina, once again. Cuba and Venezuela, both not on good relations with the US, were among the first countries to pledge aid. Note that they pledged more than a million dollars' worth of supplies and logistics, and their collective GDPs are considerably less than a trillion dollars per annum.
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:58 am

I don't think and never said they don't deserve our help, I just don't think it's our responsibility to come to the rescue to everyone else. Maybe if we had more money and weren't in debt ourselves, I wouldn't be so brash about it, but I am just saying...

This may sound selfish, but I think America needs to put themselves first. We should try and help out our own citizens. We have people here who are dying everyday from cancer and all that, but no one helps us try to find a cure.

To be honest, it seems that some countries rely on America's aide to bail them out of their problematic situations. I don't mind helping people, but giving them money when we're in trouble just doesn't seem to foot the bill for me.

I do understand what you mean about the lack of resources, equipment, etc. - perhaps we could provide them with the resources and all instead of just forking over a million dollars. I think THAT would have been a better way to handle it.

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby wishiwuzhizdreamgirl on Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:59 am

i think its complete bullshit. first off, we cant even get our asses out of debt, obama cant even keep his promises, we have starving people, homeless people, WERE IN A RECESSSION WHERE THE HELL IS THIS 1 MILL COMMING FROM!?!?!

yeah what happened was awful, but america cant even AFFORD 1 mil. go look up national debt.

also whats the swine flu? whats aids? cancer? pneumonia? sickness and disease IS running through the streets of the US.

we STILL have people from Katrina who had lost their entire lives, who still are waiting for their homes and such. STILL its been how many years?

in PA we have had multiple prenatal centers in hospitals shut down, schools, libraries. We cant even give our students a decent education compared to other countries because were so materialistic. WE CANT EVEN MAKE OUR OWN PRODUCTS BECAUSE WERE A FAT LAZY COUNTRY!!!
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby wishiwuzhizdreamgirl on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:04 am

Illusionist wrote:Even if an equivalent disaster happened in the U.S., we have the means to recover so we wouldn't really need outside help. America is still a very wealthy and well-off country despite the national debt. Haiti simply doesn't doesn't have supplies, equipment, or resources to save people so they need outside help.



were well off? we cant even clean up after Katrina and that happened like 5 years ago! We cant even keep an economy and we have to play the damned blame game. "oh its the demo's fault" or "oh its bushs fault" its AMERICAN CITIZENS faults, becsuse thats what we all are in the end CITIZENS! We are NOT a wealthy country at all. All the money we have is practically WORTHLESS!!!!!

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:12 am

I see what you mean, Tet. But the fact that we're giving away tax dollars and all that just boggles my mind. I understand that YES, we are the primary country for aide and all that, but it is NOT our responsibility to be handing over money like that. It's not just Haiti, anyways - but in this discussion, it is.

If we were in a huge crisis, other than Katrina, I don't think other countries would come to our aide. Cuba and Venezuela granted us the recognition and support, yes, I do see the positive side on that. But if we were suffering that bad from an earth quake, I don't think people would come to our aide.


Why? Because "America has enough money." Still, I hold my argument - why are we giving away money when we supposedly can't even help our own citizens, and are in debt?

It's the government's job to help out the people who need it, the people who are homeless. Instead, do you know what I see? The majority of american citizens being pushed back for illegal immigrants as far as government benefits go. Foodstamps, cash-benefits and all that go more to the immigrants than actual citizens. How the fuck do we have so much money to be handing to people who aren't even citizens of our country, but we nearly FAIL to help the people who are actually supporting America?

This is not a bad country, and props to us for helping out. But I just don't think it's our highest priority to come to the rescue every single time something bad happens to another country.

I'd like to see more improvement on our country, first, before we go handing out "little" bits of money here and there. And it's not even just this time. We've given multiple countries money over shit like this. We spend hell of a lot of money to send soldiers over to countries where they don't even need to be. We spend money like it burns a hole in our pockets, and if one million dollars is chump change - then why can't we spend it on ourselves?

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby wishiwuzhizdreamgirl on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:14 am

HERE HERE!!!! :D

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kronos on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:18 am

wishiwuzhizdreamgirl wrote:
were well off? we cant even clean up after Katrina and that happened like 5 years ago! We cant even keep an economy and we have to play the damned blame game. "oh its the demo's fault" or "oh its bushs fault" its AMERICAN CITIZENS faults, becsuse thats what we all are in the end CITIZENS! We are NOT a wealthy country at all. All the money we have is practically WORTHLESS!!!!!


Please, calm down and learn the fuck about the truth of things.

The Hurricane Katrina response was a slow, mismanaged, and shoddily prepared response to something that wasn't supposed to happen. If the Army Corps of Engineers (no offense to all you military folks) hadn't fucked up with the levees, it would just have been another hurricane. You're right when you say America is crappy; our infrastructure is degrading and our economy is sliding into the abyss.

Now stop with your idiotic whining. Tell me, how is it my fault? I'm an American citizen, albeit a minor. How is it my fault that self-serving people got into government and ruined our economy? How is it my fault we use fiat currency? Tell me that.

BTW, all fiat currency is worthless. Yeah - big secret here - our entire economic system is powered by BELIEF! The moment we stopping backing the dollar with equivalent gold reserves we opened ourselves up to this kind of thing.

...

Let me tell you why, Nitrogen!

Because the majority of the people in power are self serving. Power corrupts. Power also causes people to complain about what you, leading to indecision. There's a reason that reformers are all strong-willed sons-of-bitches.

And as for debt, that's a result of our fiscal policy. We're letting it go downhill while he parade around and act like we're still in the post World War II boom - when America actually was the best and most powerful nation in the world. As for providing support to illegal immigrants, I'd like to see something to back up your claims.

And... did you know that America is individualist? It seems that lots of people in power have a "If you failed it's your own fault" mindset, so they don't want to give money to the poor, because the poor would just waste it!

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Miss Meggie on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:22 am

I SAY WE ALL JUST FLY TO THE MOON AND START OUR OWN LITTLE COUNTRY CUZ IM DONE WITH THE BULL SHIT, WHY DOES AMERICA GIVE WHAT WE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD!
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Uchiha_Itachi on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:28 am

Who Fucking cares we need to be in our on bussiness here in america and stop being in other countries bussiness.
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kronos on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:28 am

Please, please, if you nothing but sarcasm to contribute, don't contribute at all.

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby GuiltyPleasure on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:41 am

Okay look, I'm an Australian and I know for a fact that as soon as Katrina happened we were there helping you and doing everything we could afford to do. What is a million dollars anyway? I'm personally outraged that Australia is only donating 300,000 of our money. We've had our fair share of disasters, the fires in Victoria last year, America did shit all for us do you know who helped us the most? NZ and England. I think this is unfair as we are sending a hell of a lot of our soldiers over to fight the war YOU started. We're all big countries and I think we should help them out a little. Fair enough there are stuff that needs doing but do you know who does a lot of the medical research? Not you guys, it's every other country.

This is just enforcing my views that Americans are too concerned with themselves. Natural disasters happen and no one expects them so there is no problem with helping.

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but what is a Million dollars these days when we pay celebrities $15 plus for one movie?

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:44 am

This response is directed to Kronos, and him ONLY. I would like for everyone else to not take this reply out of context.

Now, Kronos.

My evidence for the illegal immigrants getting more benefits than American citizens is simple: SINCE they do not have citizenship here in the U.S., we somehow feel the need to cater to them and help them, because they come from poverty backgrounds and such.

I, as an american, have food stamps and since I am going to college and have loans and all that, I got my foodstamps pulled from me. My mom still gets them, but I don't. They claim that, since I go to college, that I have enough money to support myself because of Sallie Mae money. Well, I don't GET Sallie Mae money at the end of my quarters, in fact, I don't get ANYTHING back. My funds roll over into the next quarter to ensure I have enough loans to cover my entire tuition.

Now, the Florida government, alone, believes that people with excess funds are able to live off of that. Receiving $600 every 11 weeks doesn't help you with your bills, living arrangements, food, etc.

But in the meantime, I have noticed that illegal immigrants receive benefits before citizens of this country. They come from poor places to settle down in America and try to "better" their lifestyles by receiving benefits. This is taken from the citizens in this country who also need those benefits, and also makes it harder for us to apply for foodstamps, monthly cash benefits, and the like.

Did you know that the majority of people in Florida, ALONE, have been denied medicaid because they "make too much"? If you have a household income of more than $400 a month, you supposedly have enough money to live on. Well, that's living from paycheck-to-paycheck.

And about the illegal immigrants getting benefits before americans...It is sadly true. Illegal immigrants pay little to no taxes and are receiving more benefits than they pay in taxes. While the people who actually live and are born in this country that ARE citizens have to go through mounds of paperwork for authorization and proof of citizenship, to get benefits. But we pay taxes!

Here are a couple articles that I decided to dig up, just to support my case here, that highlight some pretty interesting information on illegal immigrants receiving more benefits than American citizens.

http://redblueamerica.com/truthornot/20 ... taxes-2300

http://www.steveberen.com/immigration.html

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ImmortalSin on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:54 am

Not to mention that a lot of the money for the fires in Victoria came from Australians themselves that weren't affected by the disaster. I too am unhappy that we are donating so little, but I know of many many people here that are emptying their own pockets and donating as much as they can with little thought as to how it will affect them financially and personally.

If you are seen to be lacking empathy it will end up that when you are the one in need others will begin to lack empathy for you. America has problems, Australia has problems, Haiti has problems - everyone has problems. I don't understand what makes you (and possibly others) think that if you were the one in trouble no one would be there to help. Katrina is a perfect example of how that is so not true. How would it be any different if it were an earthquake, flash floods or the like?

Sometimes I believe that certain people and groups in America flatter themselves far too much. When it really boils down to it we are no different from you, and you are no different to us, and we are both no different than those in Haiti. We're all people and when someone is suffering, we do whatever we can to help out. Any less would be inhuman.

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Akita on Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:06 am

Not to mention that a lot of the money for the fires in Victoria came from Australians themselves that weren't affected by the disaster. I too am unhappy that we are donating so little, but I know of many many people here that are emptying their own pockets and donating as much as they can with little thought as to how it will affect them financially and personally.

If you are seen to be lacking empathy it will end up that when you are the one in need others will begin to lack empathy for you. America has problems, Australia has problems, Haiti has problems - everyone has problems. I don't understand what makes you (and possibly others) think that if you were the one in trouble no one would be there to help. Katrina is a perfect example of how that is so not true. How would it be any different if it were an earthquake, flash floods or the like?

Sometimes I believe that certain people and groups in America flatter themselves far too much. When it really boils down to it we are no different from you, and you are no different to us, and we are both no different than those in Haiti. We're all people and when someone is suffering, we do whatever we can to help out. Any less would be inhuman.


I will honestly nod my head to this in agreement. I do concur that yes, we are all human, we all need some kind of support. But what I'm trying to say is, we need to be able to help ourselves first. I don't try to flatter myself, as an American, and I am also not trying to say that we're so damn poor this and that. We all have our times of suffering, and yes, we all do need help once in a while, but it seems as though the majority of the time, when there's some kind of problem, America is the first country everyone turns to for help.

Then again, this is coming from an insider, mind you. I will admit that what I am saying may sound a little bit selfish about 'we need to help ourselves' but it is true. The fact of the matter is this: I honestly can tell you from personal experience that I do know how it feels to be out there with no one helping me, okay. I have been in a predicament that has changed my entire life and has led me to change my views and actions towards people who need help.

I am not one to say that I turn down any person who needs help; but in this kind of situation, I will voice my opinion about the economy. How do we have so much money to be giving out when we, ourselves, are in national debt? I'm not saying NOT help, but I'm not all for the fact that we have to jump to everyone's aide. I never once implied that I am against this action, but I just don't see how we feel it's our responsibility.

I honestly and seriously hope that our "one million dollars," if anything, went/goes to helping them gain more resources and all that to help them in the future as well as right now. It's not horrible to help people, but when you're suffering, yourself, it makes it hard on you to realize that the taxes you pay for your country from your dead-end job paycheck is being handed over like it was nothing.

Considering the fact that there are people out there who would stake me in the heart for this, I still hold my opinion. It's not bad. Not at all. But it's not our main focus to help out everyone else in need. But I will give props for helping out, anyways - to America AND other countries.

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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby LordSaladin on Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:13 am

Nitrogen... A few points to consider:

1: America wasn't the only country to give aid or provide support. Britain did as well (oh, and yeah, we have issues with national debt, illegal immigrants mooching off our benefits system, homelessness etc etc), as well as the UN in general.

2: The recession is a WORLDWIDE thing. Consider the effects that has on poorer countries, just like Haiti.

3: Why should it not be our responsibility? Being among the richest countries in the world, which some could argue is at the expense of poorer countries (which we'll not get in to), with the ability to actually offer aid and support, surely we have a human responsibility to help those who don't have those capabilities. As mentioned above, the death toll in the earthquake has been massive, and without aid, it will only grow.

4: No people come to America's aid? I seriously loled. Katrina, as has already been mentioned, 9/11, any other disaster... Other countries DO give aid. And America, much like Britain and other western European countries have the means by which to react appropriately to disasters, and with greater funds can cope much more efficiently.
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Re: 1 Million dollars for Haiti?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ImmortalSin on Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:20 am

Combatant876 wrote:3: Why should it not be our responsibility? Being among the richest countries in the world, which some could argue is at the expense of poorer countries (which we'll not get in to), with the ability to actually offer aid and support, surely we have a human responsibility to help those who don't have those capabilities. As mentioned above, the death toll in the earthquake has been massive, and without aid, it will only grow.


Ah, thank-you. I was just typing something similar to this, but couldn't explain it properly. That sounds so much better than what I was working on.

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