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nice guys finish last

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nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:43 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rZu-tBi7DM
i apologize for posting a link for discussion and debate, i understand some people find this offensive.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby dealing with it on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:51 pm

When you treat this forum like Reddit, it's annoying, not offensive. It's hard to write too much for an OP, but very easy to write too little. I don't even know if you agree with this You-tuber or not.

Anyway, to bring some measure of discussion/debate into this. What are some the advantages and disadvantages of behaving in the way that this fellow recommends? Does it lead to wisdom or enlightenment? If not, what is the end goal of these behaviour adjustments? Do you agree with his recommendations?

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:04 pm

dealing with it wrote:When you treat this forum like Reddit, it's annoying, not offensive. It's hard to write too much for an OP, but very easy to write too little. I don't even know if you agree with this You-tuber or not.


When I do write something it's too offensive, or one sided, or snarky, or not written well enough so I thought I wouldn't write anything about it at all.

dealing with it wrote: Anyway, to bring some measure of discussion/debate into this. What are some the advantages and disadvantages of behaving in the way that this fellow recommends? Does it lead to wisdom or enlightenment? If not, what is the end goal of these behaviour adjustments? Do you agree with his recommendations?


Can you teach me to be smart like you?

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby dealing with it on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:51 am

spayce wrote:When I do write something it's too offensive, or one sided, or snarky, or not written well enough so I thought I wouldn't write anything about it at all.

From my perspective, you are doing it (ie. trolling) on purpose. But maybe you are just a rhino in a glass house.

spayce wrote:Can you teach me to be smart like you?

It's simply ethics. Religions and philosophies recommend various ethical positions all the time. Usually, the goal of an ethical position is clear; other times it is implicit. This video can be interpreted in the same way any other ethical position can be.

Anyway, when I ask a series of questions, I'm looking for answers to the questions. I try not to ask rhetorical questions.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Shi-chan on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:35 pm

I'm guessing that you're asking whether or not we agree with this guy, and I've gotta say, I do. Completely. I find these self proclaimed 'nice guys' absolutely repulsive. I gag and throw up in my mouth every time I meet one of them. And that's not because I have a problem with nice people. I love them. But only the genuine ones. As soon as you're being nice in order to achieve something, but keep this a secret, you're just putting on a mask. You're not nice. You're a phony little [insert bad word].

This enrages me almost as much as the Friendzone. Whenever a guy (or gal) says they got put there, I just want to punch them. Even more so if they talk about how nice they were being, only to find out that their crush wants to be with someone else. If you're pretending to be someone's friend because you want to sleep with them, you're a manipulative ass, and I hate you. People do not have to have sex with you, or love, just because you were nice to them. People do not owe you sex or love because you were close or talked about intimate things.

Just imagine, just for a second, to be in that position where your friend says that they love you and want to be in a relationship with you, and you have to tell them that you don't feel that way about them. And suddenly they don't want to speak with you any more, be near you or do any of the things you used to.

You thought this person was your friend, but they were deceiving you all along. They didn't want that. It was pretend. They put up with you.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Grahf on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:23 pm

Well that escalated rather quickly.

Nice guys do finish last, because they are by nature..nice. Nice means you take other's point of views or thoughts into consideration before your own- you care if you might hurt someone's feelings by acting for example. The downfall is in the care. It's a shame, but that's how it is. Once you let someone step on you it's time to just roll out a carpet and get ready for a parade- it's like blood in the water..others will walk all over you as well.

Now, about that friendzone thing- It's bullshit. Plain and simple. If you WANT to be with someone fucking ask them out. They say no? Oh well. Not the end of the world. You cannot blame anyone other than yourself if you don't have the balls (or equivalent female anatomy) to stand the fuck up for how you feel. She/he sees you as just a friend? Then you should have tried harder. Hell, maybe you're ugly? Who knows.

Way I see it this world is a rough place- things don't just get handed to you (unless you're a Hilton I guess.) so if you are going to be a 'nice guy' you're food. If I come across you I will take what I need and move on..because I am NOT a nice guy. If you get stuck in the 'friendzone' it's because someone like me nutted the fuck up and asked her/him out first. Like the old saying goes 'It's a dog eat dog world.'

Either become a bigger dog..or become kibble.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:41 pm

dealing with it wrote:
spayce wrote:When I do write something it's too offensive, or one sided, or snarky, or not written well enough so I thought I wouldn't write anything about it at all.

From my perspective, you are doing it (ie. trolling) on purpose. But maybe you are just a rhino in a glass house.

spayce wrote:Can you teach me to be smart like you?

It's simply ethics. Religions and philosophies recommend various ethical positions all the time. Usually, the goal of an ethical position is clear; other times it is implicit. This video can be interpreted in the same way any other ethical position can be.

Anyway, when I ask a series of questions, I'm looking for answers to the questions. I try not to ask rhetorical questions.


cool.


Shi-chan wrote:I'm guessing that you're asking whether or not we agree with this guy, and I've gotta say, I do. Completely. I find these self proclaimed 'nice guys' absolutely repulsive. I gag and throw up in my mouth every time I meet one of them. And that's not because I have a problem with nice people. I love them. But only the genuine ones. As soon as you're being nice in order to achieve something, but keep this a secret, you're just putting on a mask. You're not nice. You're a phony little [insert bad word].

This enrages me almost as much as the Friendzone. Whenever a guy (or gal) says they got put there, I just want to punch them. Even more so if they talk about how nice they were being, only to find out that their crush wants to be with someone else. If you're pretending to be someone's friend because you want to sleep with them, you're a manipulative ass, and I hate you. People do not have to have sex with you, or love, just because you were nice to them. People do not owe you sex or love because you were close or talked about intimate things.

Just imagine, just for a second, to be in that position where your friend says that they love you and want to be in a relationship with you, and you have to tell them that you don't feel that way about them. And suddenly they don't want to speak with you any more, be near you or do any of the things you used to.

You thought this person was your friend, but they were deceiving you all along. They didn't want that. It was pretend. They put up with you.


That's pretty extreme but if you ever see a really cheesy disney movie, or a chick flick I noticed this pattern where the main character is dating a guy that is a haughty narcissistic stuck up jock, and she ends up falling for the geeky shy best friend who worships her from afar. I disagree with you when you say "manipulative ass". I think that sometimes people forget that society as a whole isn't always so divided, it's not as black and white as "good" and "bad" or "nice" and "mean". What I liked about the video that I posted was that he reminded everyone, regardless of what category you put them in is still a person and doesn't always fit into the label you throw them into.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Shi-chan on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:35 pm

spayce wrote:
That's pretty extreme but if you ever see a really cheesy disney movie, or a chick flick I noticed this pattern where the main character is dating a guy that is a haughty narcissistic stuck up jock, and she ends up falling for the geeky shy best friend who worships her from afar. I disagree with you when you say "manipulative ass". I think that sometimes people forget that society as a whole isn't always so divided, it's not as black and white as "good" and "bad" or "nice" and "mean". What I liked about the video that I posted was that he reminded everyone, regardless of what category you put them in is still a person and doesn't always fit into the label you throw them into.


You might be right that I'm pretty extreme about this, but that's only because I've been the person 'friendzoning' others, so it really pushes my buttons whenever it's brought up. I certainly felt manipulated when I discovered that the person I thought was my friend only wanted me around because he expected that I'd put out sooner or later. When I didn't I got ditched.

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the Disney thing, but if you're saying that those stories give people a completely unrealistic sense of how things work, then I'm with you on that. If not, please elaborate. :3

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Nice is the weakest adjective in the English language. Everyone is nice, it's what people say when they can't think of anything better to say.

When I hear someone being described as nice I automatically think they are either boring or a pussy.

Being nice just means someone is pleasant and has manners it does not mean they are good. Being a good person means doing good things like being charitable or pulling a Jonas Salk. Being a good person means you gotta be tough sometimes becuase sometimes you gotta call an asshole an asshole. Nice people don't do this they smile and tolerate things.

So long as we're turning the board into reddit check out this example of one poor losers descent into utter friend zone induced madness http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=efTloIPz ... fTloIPzkkA

Of course it's entirely his own doing. The video is way too long to watch all the way through but I guarantee if you chose a point at random and listen for thirty seconds you will see how lame friend zone dwellers are.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:28 am

Bosch wrote:So long as we're turning the board into reddit check out this example of one poor losers descent into utter friend zone induced madness


What do you mean so as long as we're turning the board into reddit. This will probably come off as really aggressive but just a heads up, if you don't like the context or format or content of the posts I make, I can live with that. There's no need to include that in a comment. If you are offended, you do not need to report it for abuse or flag it as spam. Just walk away from the screen haha just close your eyes.

Shi-chan wrote:You might be right that I'm pretty extreme about this, but that's only because I've been the person 'friendzoning' others, so it really pushes my buttons whenever it's brought up. I certainly felt manipulated when I discovered that the person I thought was my friend only wanted me around because he expected that I'd put out sooner or later. When I didn't I got ditched.
I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the Disney thing, but if you're saying that those stories give people a completely unrealistic sense of how things work, then I'm with you on that. If not, please elaborate. :3


I used the disney movies as an example because there's the common theme of "good" vs. "bad" when those two adjectives give a completely unrealistic sense of how things work, like you said. Just because you have different views or you don't get along it doesn't mean that they're a horrible person. Being quiet and friendly doesn't necessarily mean someone's actions are always nice and same goes for people who are more open and confrontational. I've been in that situation too, it's frustrating but I remind myself that the reason these "nice guys" make such utterly inaccurate assumptions about others and themselves is because underneath being judgmental, it's really just insecurity.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Shi-chan on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:04 am

spayce wrote:
Bosch wrote:So long as we're turning the board into reddit check out this example of one poor losers descent into utter friend zone induced madness


What do you mean so as long as we're turning the board into reddit. This will probably come off as really aggressive but just a heads up, if you don't like the context or format or content of the posts I make, I can live with that. There's no need to include that in a comment. If you are offended, you do not need to report it for abuse or flag it as spam. Just walk away from the screen haha just close your eyes.

I think it was just a joke, nothing more. :)

Shi-chan wrote:You might be right that I'm pretty extreme about this, but that's only because I've been the person 'friendzoning' others, so it really pushes my buttons whenever it's brought up. I certainly felt manipulated when I discovered that the person I thought was my friend only wanted me around because he expected that I'd put out sooner or later. When I didn't I got ditched.
I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the Disney thing, but if you're saying that those stories give people a completely unrealistic sense of how things work, then I'm with you on that. If not, please elaborate. :3


I used the disney movies as an example because there's the common theme of "good" vs. "bad" when those two adjectives give a completely unrealistic sense of how things work, like you said. Just because you have different views or you don't get along it doesn't mean that they're a horrible person. Being quiet and friendly doesn't necessarily mean someone's actions are always nice and same goes for people who are more open and confrontational. I've been in that situation too, it's frustrating but I remind myself that the reason these "nice guys" make such utterly inaccurate assumptions about others and themselves is because underneath being judgmental, it's really just insecurity.


No, someone having a different opinion than me does not make them a bad person, that just makes them more interesting to debate with. I've met quite a lot of quiet people who, when you got to know them, were quite aggressive and not that nice to be around, while I've met a lot of also quiet people who were completely awesome and wonderful. The same thing goes for those who are more confrontational, some are really just looking for a fight/debate/whatevs, others are simply willing to speak up when it's necessary. It's very difficult to just divide them into two groups, when there's a lot more to the case than just that.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:46 am

Spayce. It was just a good natured joke about how quickly You and Dealio flipped out at eachother. If I was seriously having a go do I wouldn’t have posted. Trust me I’m not one for trolling topics, I posted because this topic is interesting so, you know, good job on that. All the other stuff I posted was a response, maybe if all I posted was the reddit comment you’d have a point. It doesn’t bother me if you’d rather post links to videos or pictures or whatever as they seem to mainly have point to them, maybe you find that's an easier way to express what you’re thinking. It’s concise which is good I guess.

As for the current discussion about what is good and what is evil I don’t think there are many straight up evil people in the world. I think there are misinformed people or scared people who might say bad things but absolutely believe they are in the right. To borrow a phrase from the Christians in most cases it’s acceptable to hate the sin and not the sinner.

Along the same lines as what Shin is saying I’ve met people who come across as loudmouth d-bags but once you get to them they are ok. On the other hand I remember talking to a kid I thought was relatively chill about our school formal who went ape shit when the one of the gay kids brought his boy friend. The guy was progressive in most of his other stances but disliked seeing gay folks at his formal. Whenever the cops arrest a somebody and find like fifty murdered hobos under the patio the neighbours always say the killer was just a quiet man, not some hobo hating loon. You never really can know what people are like.

I think if you get your moral reasoning from movies, Disney or otherwise, you’re going to have a deeply skewed view of the world.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:01 pm

Bosch wrote: Along the same lines as what Shin is saying I’ve met people who come across as loudmouth d-bags but once you get to them they are ok. On the other hand I remember talking to a kid I thought was relatively chill about our school formal who went ape shit when the one of the gay kids brought his boy friend. The guy was progressive in most of his other stances but disliked seeing gay folks at his formal. Whenever the cops arrest a somebody and find like fifty murdered hobos under the patio the neighbours always say the killer was just a quiet man, not some hobo hating loon. You never really can know what people are like. I think if you get your moral reasoning from movies, Disney or otherwise, you’re going to have a deeply skewed view of the world.

The romantic comedy/disney channel thing was just an exaggerated example but I completely agree with you on the fact that it's impossible to be the judge of what type of person someone is, especially based off of their personality type.

Bosch wrote:Spayce. It was just a good natured joke about how quickly You and Dealio flipped out at eachother. If I was seriously having a go do I wouldn’t have posted.

There is no flipping out, as I mentioned above, I'm not offended or insulted by the fact that a majority of people on this website happen to dislike the content of my writing, I just pointed out that it's not a valid excuse to include that in a comment or report me for it, because it's kind of pointless



This guy in my class who sits behind me was talking about the whole "nice guys finish last" theory and he said something like, he thinks a nice guy is someone who is considerate, and he thinks girls don't value being considerate as much as what a guy looks like. I think this is completely untrue because for starters, you don't get to determine who you should or shouldn't be considered over by any given person or group of people. The criterion for good partner varies person to person. If you class everybody who disagrees with you or withholds different values as inconsiderate, you're probably not a considerate person. In my opinion a nice person, a genuinely nice person is someone that realizes that they have no more claim to admiration and respect than anyone else. If you think that you deserve to have people be nice to you, then everybody deserves to have people be nice to them as well.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RichterGotz on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:43 am

Being "friendzoned" sucks. I know, I've gone through it. Many males will at some point.

The problem with this "nice-guys finish last" thing is that it is totally over-generalized. There are plenty of men who pretend to be "nice" just to get into a girl's pants; however, there are also plenty of perfectly pleasant, intelligent, and respectful guys who get "friendzoned" simply because they aren't physically attractive or sexually aggressive enough. Not every guy who complains about getting "friendzoned" is a whiny manipulative asshole; many are perfectly respectful young men who have yet to realize that their crush finds them physically inferior.

Several people on this thread seem to be claiming that "nice-guys" are just trying manipulate their way to sex, but is that really a bad thing? Isn't manipulation and deception what attractiveness and relationships are really about? Why isn't wearing makeup considered manipulative or deceitful, aren't you just pretending to be something you aren't? All relationships, romantic or simply friendly, involve attraction. If you are a female, and you have friends who are males, they are attracted to you. For a male who is friends with a female, the line between "friend" attractive and "sex" attractive, is about as thin as the side of a piece of paper.

Are you trying to say that if a "nice-guy" was truly your friend, then he wouldn't be sexually attracted to you? If that's the case, than I'm sorry I'm the one to break the news to you.

There is no way to definitively say "nice-guys finish last", because who can say what a "nice guy" even is?
"I have learned that Anger and Will, joined together, are the greatest Power. I have learned to meditate Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of Dark Side Power." ―Palpatine, from The Book of Anger

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:32 am

Spayce.

Yeah I understand the Disney film thing is just an exaggerated example but I do think Hollywood does present relationships in over simplistic ways to the extent where I can understand why people get confused. It not just relationships that the Talkies misrepresent through. The following links are all to Cracked, a humour website but I feel the points are valid and amusing.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-bizarrely ... in-movies/

http://www.cracked.com/article_20082_6- ... -over.html

http://www.cracked.com/article/194_7-po ... ate-women/

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-obnoxious ... out-women/
Hollywood is all about the stereotypes.

Ok, there was no flipping out. It was just an amusing situation to me. I don’t see why you’d be offended by people disagreeing with you especially on this forum as it’s all about the meeting of minds and having a nice chat about the issues of the day. All we can do here is present our beliefs and feels about issues in a controlled manner. It’s the internet after all, it would be weird if you took it personally.

As for the class room Guy I agree with you. He seems to treat women as one homogeneous group which is just crazy, there are loads of different types of lady folk, some find traits attractive that others would consider to be meek, overbearing, boring or immature. He is making the mistake of assuming all women will be attracted to what he deems to be nice. For example Bashar al-Assad is a horrible human being but his well educated, attractive and seemingly normal wife Asma al-Assad thinks he’s a pretty alright guy. Perceptions.

In my view being described as nice is kind of an insult as it suggests the person can’t think of anything else to say about you. Calling someone funny, talkative, intelligent, well read, deep or anything else is preferable to “Oh she’s nice.”

Richter

I agree being friend zoned sucks but when you said “there are also plenty of perfectly pleasant, intelligent, and respectful guys who get "friendzoned" simply because they aren't physically attractive or sexually aggressive enough.”

I feel you miss the point. Men and Women can’t help who they fancy. Pleasant and respectful are just fancy ways of saying nice. While intelligence is a factor there are many different kinds of it. For example it takes intelligence to a funny guy, I’ll use the example of Oliva Wilde who let’s be honest is successful, politically active and a solid 10. She could have her pick of pretty much anybody but she’s decided to get hitched to Comic Actor Jason Sudeikis who you might think had to learn lady chat from JFK himself to attract someone like Oliva Wilde. In actual fact he’s just a funny guy who does a lot for charity. He just has an attractive personality.

The qualities you mentioned aren’t attractive they are “pleasant”. I agree not everybody who winds up in the friend zone is pretending to be nice for the purposes of getting a relationship. If that were true all these nice guys would be starting fires and throwing bricks at Nuns while out of their faces on crack. The reason they are in the friendzone is they are either boring or the object of their affection doesn’t view them in a sexual way. You say sexual aggression is a bad thing, while I think the phrasing is terrible as those two words are a juxtaposition, I disagree. Sexually aggressive makes it sound like you are about to go for an anger bang or something which is messed up. Truth is people communicate in a lot of non verbal ways and what you describe as sexual aggression a lot of other people would call flirting. If someone can’t flirt odds are they’re not going to be too successful attracting a partner. Again this is why I think nice people often have self esteem issues the only way to fix that is to get out there into the world and stop pining over something that’s not going to happen.

Looks can definitely attract somebody to you in a bar but personality is what keeps them talking to you. Our personalities are the sum of our experiences so if somebody is finding themselves lonely amybe it’s time to go out and do something new. I’m aware I’m verging into self help territory and I don’t know you Richter so don’t think any of this is directed at you for all I know you’re a Don Juan.
Lastly you know those Beer adverts that became memes about the world’s most interesting man? They are a funny spoof and everything but the marketing people knew what they are doing, personality and self confidence are attractive qualities.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kestrel on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:35 pm

I think the dude in the video is a really nice guy for being honest and giving some real goddamn advice. That's a lot better than some of the shit I've done to deal with 'nice guys.' My definition of a genuinely nice guy is sorta like that interwebz meme "Nice guy Greg," and not the whiny examples but the things like stopping the microwave before it beeps or when he drives you home he makes sure you're safe inside before driving off. It's the small things that make you think, "That was pretty cool of him." But whenever you mention it the guy shrugs it off as "Eh, no big deal."

Generally speaking, being nice isn't guaranteed to account to anything. My method of helping people regularly translates to kicking their ass into action or tell them the things they don't want to, but need to hear. I'm not nice, but as a friend I'm pretty darn useful (though admittedly you might wanna grow a pretty thick skin.)

When you wanna get into someone's pants or beyond that, you gotta be assertive about it. The reason 'nice guy' is a method is because a lot of us guys are afraid of rejection. I know what it's like, I went through puberty too, it's natural. But being afraid and attempting to avoid outright rejection doesn't mean all your efforts will go smoothly. If you make it clear to a girl or a dude you wanna make out/hook up/have ten babies and live happily ever after, and he/she says no, that's COMPLETELY WITHIN THEIR RIGHT to do so. The only thing you can do is accept that and move on. It's a game of chance. Some people will like you, some will not. Others may already have significant others or are simply not looking. You will never change the fact it's a game of chance, at best you'll get more skilled at the game and improve your success rate, but no matter what you do, if you want a good guy/gal to date you will be rejected more often than not.

AND THAT'S COOL. Because you don't wanna fuck everything that moves either. I know I don't. This is what 'nice guys' don't get. Their way is just a way of avoiding outright, cold rejection. But truth is, if a girl has the guts to walk up to me and ask me out, my first thought will be like "Damn, this chick got character." And that's before looking at her assets. The same happens vice versa. A couple months back I read on, ironically, reddit, a girl's post on something similar, amongst the lines of "If you come up to me and ask me out, I may say no, but I'll definitely consider it." And then there was something about a waiting list which pissed a lot of people off, but that's irrelevant to this topic. Everyone who is worth a damn in the dating scene, regardless of gender, will appreciate guts.

I'm also kind of with Bosch on that nice is a shitty redeeming factor. Sorta like headstrong.

RichterGotz wrote:The problem with this "nice-guys finish last" thing is that it is totally over-generalized. There are plenty of men who pretend to be "nice" just to get into a girl's pants; however, there are also plenty of perfectly pleasant, intelligent, and respectful guys who get "friendzoned" simply because they aren't physically attractive or sexually aggressive enough. Not every guy who complains about getting "friendzoned" is a whiny manipulative asshole; many are perfectly respectful young men who have yet to realize that their crush finds them physically inferior.

It hurts getting rejected if you were really into a girl, and I guess friendzone adds insult to injury. I can understand disappointment and having to voice it.

RichterGotz wrote:Several people on this thread seem to be claiming that "nice-guys" are just trying manipulate their way to sex, but is that really a bad thing? Isn't manipulation and deception what attractiveness and relationships are really about? Why isn't wearing makeup considered manipulative or deceitful, aren't you just pretending to be something you aren't?

They're not, actually. Relationships that is. The whole dating scene has a fair amount of trickery and games, especially the female side seems to employ and enjoy, but getting into an honest relationship means you should be past that point.

Well, that's what it should mean anyway, but eh, what do I know?

RichterGotz wrote:All relationships, romantic or simply friendly, involve attraction.

*Proximity.

RichterGotz wrote: If you are a female, and you have friends who are males, they are attracted to you.

For a male who is friends with a female, the line between "friend" attractive and "sex" attractive, is about as thin as the side of a piece of paper.

This is partly true. If my friend is physically attractive to me, then yes, it'll go through my mind. If she's not, that doesn't mean I can't hang out and have a laugh with her even though I don't wanna get into her pants because I'm a superficial jerk.
Do you come from a land down under?
Where women glow and men plunder?
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover.

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Kestrel
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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RichterGotz on Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:40 am

Bosch wrote:
Richter

I feel you miss the point. Men and Women can’t help who they fancy. Pleasant and respectful are just fancy ways of saying nice.


Completely agree. I wasn't trying to dispute that.

Bosch wrote:The qualities you mentioned aren’t attractive they are “pleasant”.


Again, I completely agree.

Bosch wrote: The reason they are in the friendzone is they are either boring or the object of their affection doesn’t view them in a sexual way.


Exactly. I think I actually made that exact point myself.


Bosch wrote:You say sexual aggression is a bad thing,


No, I don't think I did. If that's what you got from the post, than I apologize for not making myself clear enough.

Bosch wrote: while I think the phrasing is terrible as those two words are a juxtaposition, I disagree. Sexually aggressive makes it sound like you are about to go for an anger bang or something which is messed up. Truth is people communicate in a lot of non verbal ways and what you describe as sexual aggression a lot of other people would call flirting. If someone can’t flirt odds are they’re not going to be too successful attracting a partner. Again this is why I think nice people often have self esteem issues the only way to fix that is to get out there into the world and stop pining over something that’s not going to happen.


Again, I completely agree. When I said "sexually aggressive", I was referring to flirting. It was far too late at night for me to be making a pseudo-philosophical post.

Bosch wrote:Looks can definitely attract somebody to you in a bar but personality is what keeps them talking to you. Our personalities are the sum of our experiences so if somebody is finding themselves lonely amybe it’s time to go out and do something new. I’m aware I’m verging into self help territory and I don’t know you Richter so don’t think any of this is directed at you for all I know you’re a Don Juan.
Lastly you know those Beer adverts that became memes about the world’s most interesting man? They are a funny spoof and everything but the marketing people knew what they are doing, personality and self confidence are attractive qualities.


What I was attempting to explain was that simply being a pleasant person, or simply not being a douchebag, won't get the attention of a potential mate. If someone isn't physically attractive enough for the person they are "crushing" on, than no amount of "pleasantness" will make up for it. Its sad, but that's how it is. No one, male or female, can choose who they are sexually attracted to.

What the decent "nice-guys" are complaining about is how girls will consistently choose to enter romantic relationships with people who they see as "assholes"; simply because they are more physically attractive than themselves.

Bosch wrote:Looks can definitely attract somebody to you in a bar but personality is what keeps them talking to you.


Ideally, yes. But there are very many romantic relationships that take place simply because of that physical attraction. Unfortunately, the vast majority of American youth are much more concerned with "sexiness", than anything worthwhile.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:31 pm

RichterGotz wrote:Unfortunately, the vast majority of American youth are much more concerned with "sexiness", than anything worthwhile.


Attraction isn't a rational thing, people's feelings are not ruled by some universal governance of costs and benefits, pros and cons. Nobody can decide who another person should and shouldn't choose as a relationship partner, because what you consider to be worthwhile might be completely different from someone else.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby spayce on Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:39 pm

Kestrel wrote:
RichterGotz wrote:The problem with this "nice-guys finish last" thing is that it is totally over-generalized. There are plenty of men who pretend to be "nice" just to get into a girl's pants; however, there are also plenty of perfectly pleasant, intelligent, and respectful guys who get "friendzoned" simply because they aren't physically attractive or sexually aggressive enough. Not every guy who complains about getting "friendzoned" is a whiny manipulative asshole; many are perfectly respectful young men who have yet to realize that their crush finds them physically inferior.

It hurts getting rejected if you were really into a girl, and I guess friendzone adds insult to injury. I can understand disappointment and having to voice it.


The only reason to be upset by women dating "a-holes" is that you want to date them and they are not dating you.If somebody is dating somebody who is not you, it is because they are either not attracted to you, or you were unavailable at the appropriate time. It's disappointing when other people's personal agency is inconvenient, I think everyone can relate to that, but it doesn't necessarily constitute as unfair.

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Re: nice guys finish last

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby bandgeek on Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:02 pm

Bosch wrote:So long as we're turning the board into reddit check out this example of one poor losers descent into utter friend zone induced madness http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=efTloIPz ... fTloIPzkkA



I watched until about three minutes passed... o_o Why would you do this to me? x_x
"She offered herself to the big, bad wolf and didn't scream when he took the first bite."
</3

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