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Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Moonscar on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:42 pm

I was wondering one day, thinking about my views on a perfect world. It seemed well enough, but then I started to think about it a little deeper, and decided that it couldn't be so. Most people think perfection is virtue, but as I thought about it for weeks on end, obsessed with the topic, debating about it within my head, I came to a conclusion. My opinion of perfection:

"Perfection is ugly, futile, and boring.
Imperfection is what truely brings out the beauty in all things. It is wonderous and all should strive to obtain it."

That is a personal quote that can also be found in my signature. Along with that is an absolutely delightfut snippit of a speech from my favorite anime character from Bleach. This is his full speech, which I thought had truth within them. (Bleach fans, beware of spoilers if you have not gone past episodes 190 to 203.)


Kurostsuchi Mayuri wrote:"There is no such thing as perfect in this world.
That may sound cliché, but it is the truth. The average person admires perfection and seeks to obtain it.
But what is the point in achieving perfection?
There is none. Nothing. Not a single thing.

I loathe perfection!
If something is perfect, then there is nothing left. There is no room for imagination.
No place left for a person to gain additional knowlege or abilities.
Do you know what that means?
For scientists such as ourselves, perfection only brings despair.
It is our job to create things more wonderful than anything before them, but never obtain perfection.
A scientist must be a person who finds ecstasy while suffering from that antinomy.

In short, the moment that foolishness [claiming perfection] left your mouth and reached my ears, you had already lost.
Of course, that is assuming you are a scientist."



It would be nice to hear the words of another speaker on this topic. Just because I claim one opinion does not mean I am not willing to listen to yours.
"'I'm bored' is a useless thing to say. You live in a great, big, vast world that you've seen none percent of. And even the inside of your own mind is endless. It goes on forever inwardly. Do you understand? Being the fact that you're alive is amazing, so you don't get to be bored."

-Louis CK

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Reaslu on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:53 pm

I agree. And either way, what is perfect? Who's to say that the true meaning of perfection isn't imperfection. And what if imperfection is perfection?

You think about that. :]
imahugefaggotplsignorethis.

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Safisan on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:20 pm

If perfection were imperfection: we'd all be perfect and thus, boring and monotonous. It *is* mistakes and flaws that make us human, after all. They give us each our own unique touch! I can recall that speech you put up, Moonscar, it was that... Weird captain of the something experiments, when he was fighting another scientist? >.<

Anyhow, perfection is futile, however the belief of it isn't. Funny, eh?

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby coconutgirl on Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:23 pm

Is true perfection only what one sees through one's own eyes to be it, or is it a state, a thing of some kind which every single person in the world would see as perfect? Is perfection ultimately a subjective or an objective thing? What I perceive as perfection might seem flawed to another person and vice versa. In this light, true perfection could only be something that would look the same from every point of view, but that is not really possible: however close we stand to a box and look at it side by side, we will still see it from slightly different angles, which will alter our experiences of it. We can never see the same thing at the exact same time in the exact same frame of reference. So perfection cannot happen, at least not on a larger scale than the personal.

I'm not even going into whether or not it is necessary at all to obtain perfection. At least not right now, because it's 1:20 am and I am sleepy. In fact, I am not sure if what I wrote just now is even comprehensible to anyone but me, but these are the thoughts that jumped into my head at that particular moment, and I found them to be worth sharing. Yay and a bottle of rum soda.
There exist only three beings worthy of respect: the priest, the soldier, the poet. To know, to kill, to create. - Charles Baudelaire

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kouketsu on Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:03 am

Well, for starters, the term perfection needs to be reduced to a context to be considered, one more granular than 'perfect world' as it's too general and encompasses too much.

Perfection is a state of flawlessness in the context of whatever that perfection is applied to, however what one considers a flaw will be left up to interpretation in many cases (Depending on the scope we're addressing), leading us to these sorts of conclusions. However, this does not mean that perfection is itself a flawed concept or that it is necessarily "boring" or something along those lines. If, in the context of people and society - and by extension our ideals of perfect people and perfect societies - we view flaws as endearing and necessary elements, then we have not confirmed perfection as being boring or futile, but merely changed our perception of what constitutes it.

This does not mean, however, that perfection is not something we should strive for in the correct context, for there are those circumstances in which it is attainable. A perfect season in a given sport, a perfect game of something, those things which can be quantified and are not wholly subjective, we can apply a concept of perfection to, and some believe this to be an excellent motivator, an objective to shoot for. I could honestly see the reasoning in that. If we're talking about something considerably more subjective and dynamic like an individual, then perfection is silly because it's really our idiosyncrasies that define us more distinctly than anything else.

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Fractal Resonance on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:31 pm

The fact this thread starts with a quote from an anime character makes me what to shoot myself. You realize there are philosophers and theologians that deeply explore these topics? Quote them next time for Christ's sake.

Simple to follow argument:

1) Perfection is devoid of flaws and by extension incapable of mistakes. (Establishing a working definition of "perfection.")
2) Perfection is not subjective. If objective perfection is obtained, it will become subjective perfection to all observers (it will be universal), else it is not perfection as it is flawed.

Really easy argument that pretty much clinches these silly arguments about perfection being "ugly, futile, and boring." If this supposed perfection is "ugly, futile, and boring" you are clearly not experiencing perfection. If someone else believes they are experiencing a subjective sense of perfection whilst you find said perfection "ugly, futile, and boring," they're wrong; clearly since this perfection is not universal it is flawed and inherently not perfection. As romantic and flowery as calling perfection "ugly, futile, and boring" is, it's a nonsensical thing to say because you're blatantly ignoring the common use of the word and concept of "perfection." Use a better source for inspiration than anime next time.

No offense.

Also, if you're a follower of a monotheistic religion, you must, by necessity, believe in perfection because God's very definition names Him as a "perfect being." If God is not perfect, He is not God.

Edit: Or was it even supposed to be an axiom?

Who started their argument with that axiom, anyway? It's a seriously famous treastie and I can't remember it.
Last edited by Fractal Resonance on Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kronos on Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:32 pm

To me, perfection is in the ultimate sense, the end of entropy. It is the point beyond which nothing can decay further, and everything is gone!

Nirvana would be a good example of this.

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Re: Perfection

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Jalala on Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:54 am

Um, Fractal, I think when she says that perfection is "Ugly, futile, and boring" is that, in the other quote says, when you are "perfect" you can't go any further than you already are. Here as it says, "No place left for a person to gain additional knowledge or abilities." You can't go past it, yet, if you are imperfect, there is that endless stretch ahead of you.
Now, I do not watch anime, or even know much about it, but I do not think the fact that it is taken from a 2D cartoon necessarily makes it bad. Sure, it's kids stuff, but look at Dr. Seuss' books, which had hidden messages in each book, like "The Butter Battle Book" that relates to the Cold War.
Now, since this topic is not about that...I guess I should move on.


Moonscar, I do not think that perfection is quite like it is in your own quote, as Fractal said, "Ugly", most likely not, as many have said:
"Perfection is in the eye of the beholder."
Say, take birds. Many would view predatory birds, the "Hunting" birds, as a 'perfect' example of beauty and freedom, whereas they would see a vulture, a scavenger, as an ugly, thieving, villain of a bird. Hence, it would be thought as "Imperfect"

Now, look at it from a different view. If someone does not see killing as right, therefore not seeing the predatory bird as "Perfect", but thinking that food should not go to waste, the vulture might seem more "Perfect" as it is a scavenger. So, as you see, "Ugly" perfection is not quite the sense.

Hmmm. "Futile" is what I would agree with you in. Trying to claim perfection is quite something that no one can achieve. Now, I am atheist, so I believe in no god, much less a 'perfect' one. One can not achieve perfection because there will always be something to learn. At least, in my belief it is. Well, then again, something that Kouketsu just said: "...there are those circumstances in which it is attainable."
And I must agree with his point.

Boring? I dunno...I kinda would like to have a, so called, "Perfect writing style". I know I contradict myself, which makes me a hypocrite, but c'mon, who does not see perfection as something they want to be up to a degree?

Oh, and I’m new so…I dunno…go easy on me? A noobish thing to say…

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