Announcements: Universe of the Month! » Finding Universes to Join (and making yours more visible!) » Guide To Universes On RPG » Starter Locations & Prompts for Newbies » RPG Chat — the official app » USERNAME CHANGES » Suggestions & Requests: THE MASTER THREAD »

Latest Discussions: Impending Pursuit Q&A » Eudaimonia » Loot! » Natural Kinds » I have a funny idea » Life in the 21st century. » Song of the Runes » Plato’s Beard » Clues » Nihilism » Strange Tales From Hadean » Art Gulag [ Come get this Commish! ] » Visibility of Private Universes & Profile Customisation » Presuppositionalism » Aphantasia » Skill Trees - Good, Bad & Ugly » In-Game Gods & Gameplay Impact » Cunningham's Law » The Tribalism of Religion » Lost Library »

Players Wanted: Looking For A New Partner » Hellboy characters » 18+ Writing Partner [Fantasy, Romance, Etc.] » 18+, Multi-Para to Novella Writers please! » Looking for roleplayers » Fun tale full of angels, demons, and humans » Looking for roleplayers » A Fairytale World in Need of Heroes & Villains! » Are You a Crime Addict? » Wuxia RP » Looking for roleplayers » New Realistic Roleplay - Small World Life ٩( ´・ш・)و » Mentors Wanted » MV Recruiting Drive: sci-fi players wanted! » Veilbrand: The Revolution » Gonna do this anyway. » Looking for Kamen Rider Players » Elysium » Looking for roleplayers for a dystopian past! » Revamping Fantasy Adventure RPG, need new players »

Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

a topic in Discussion & Debate, a part of the RPG forum.

Moderators: dealing with it, Ambassadors

Talk about philosophy, politics, news & current events, or any other subject you're interested in!

Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rulke on Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:34 am

Why is it of late people try to redefine meaning of racist and sexist to now say that no white people can ever say someone being racist against them and no males can say someone is being sexist?
We help the multi-nationals
when they cry out protect us.
The locals scream and shout a bit,
but we don’t let that affect us.
We’re here to lend a helping hand
in case they don’t elect us.
How dare they buy our products
yet still they don’t respect us.

Billy Bragg - The Marching Song Of The Covert Battalions

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Rulke
Member for 10 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Completionist Arc Warden Party Starter Person of Interest Group Theory Cult Leader Greeter Lifegiver Tipworthy

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby FyreT1ger on Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:47 pm

I'm not sure how recent you think that is, but I've seen it most of my life and I'm thirty. The terms racism and sexism are only ever used in cases of white people saying something a black person dislikes or a man saying something a woman dislikes.

Because of the victim mentality among the most prolific accusers of racism and sexism, they don't really know how to handle disagreement, which totally kills all efforts for healthy relationships with other people in general.

The term reverse discrimination just as effectively redefines the term racist and sexist and all other -isms. The dictionary definition of racism is simply treating a person differently because of race. This definition never changes no matter who the target Is. A company that only wants to hire black people is just as racist as a company that just wants to hire white or Asian people.

Making quotas of certain race groups for an office or school is just as racist, because it's favoring certain people based on racial traits and not actual skills. It's treating those people differently because of their race and thus racism. All the exact same arguments are equally valid for sexism, so I won't make myself redundant.

Unfortunately I can't answer your question. I don't know why people want to disallow others to make equally valid claims.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
FyreT1ger
Member for 12 years
Conversation Starter Author Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Donated! Contributor Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby SpiritDancer on Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:44 pm

FyreT1ger wrote:Making quotas of certain race groups for an office or school is just as racist, because it's favoring certain people based on racial traits and not actual skills. It's treating those people differently because of their race and thus racism.

I agree with almost everything, except for this. There is a reasonable reason that they do this, though I forgot the actual term for the whole thing. The base of it is that white people (white males to be more specific) have always been allowed to go to schools, so their children often have a more likely chance of going into college. However with african-americans, hispanics, latinos, ect. they don't have this legacy of college behind them, so their children are less likely to go to college, even more less likely because these families often have low income (because of the fact they don't have a legacy behind them).

So to fix this, colleges have to accept a certain amount of each race, meaning that even if one person of another race is doing better, the other person will be accepted because they're a minority and do not have a legacy behind them. This is in hopes that eventually we WILL be able to accept people only based on skill, but right now if we were to do that a lot of colleges would have a majority of white attendants, simply because white people have a legacy. Doing this now would also decrease the chance of the minority races getting off the ground and actually gaining a legacy, meaning they may forever be stuck in poverty. This isn't because they aren't hardworking, a lot of them work multiple jobs, but because they don't have that legacy behind them, nor a college degree behind them they don't make as much income.

So, by definition, is it racism? Yes, but there's a method to the madness. It's unfair for everybody, but so far I haven't seen any proposals for a new way of getting disadvantaged minorities in to colleges.

Also, when people say that you can't be racist to a white person, they're talking about on an institutional level. There are different layers of racism and you can't just take it at face value.

The first layer of racism is internalized racism, meaning you may have psychological issues due to the fact that your race is constantly put down or shamed. Like an African-American being ashamed of having a rounder and larger nose than others, or not having straight hair or blue eyes. Or someone who is Asian being self-conscious of their small eyes.

The second layer of racism is personally-meditated racism. This is the layer of racism that the definition of the word is talking about.

The third layer is institutional. You can't be racist to white people on this level because this is the racism embed in the way our country works, and our country was quite literally built on racism at first, which was mostly directed towards African-Americans and Native Americans when the country was first being founded. Whites were always accepted in America, so they can't be institutionally oppressed like the other races are. When people say "you can't be racist against white people" this is what they are referring to.

There are also different layers of sexism, but it doesn't work quite like racism. No matter what level you're on you can be sexist to both sexes, because even though males were the ones given the most rights whenever the country was founded, they've somehow have found a way to punish both females and themselves for absolutely no reason.
Ambar: Snow & Ash
Image
Image
"I’m tryin’ to fix myself
And not care too much about you"

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
SpiritDancer
Scholar
Member for 6 years
Contributor Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Builder Storyteller Beta Tester Arc Warden Friendly Beginnings Person of Interest Visual Appeal Greeter Salesman Property Buyer Tipworthy Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Merely Observing on Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:59 pm

SpiritDancer wrote:So to fix this, colleges have to accept a certain amount of each race, meaning that even if one person of another race is doing better, the other person will be accepted because they're a minority and do not have a legacy behind them. This is in hopes that eventually we WILL be able to accept people only based on skill, but right now if we were to do that a lot of colleges would have a majority of white attendants, simply because white people have a legacy. Doing this now would also decrease the chance of the minority races getting off the ground and actually gaining a legacy, meaning they may forever be stuck in poverty. This isn't because they aren't hardworking, a lot of them work multiple jobs, but because they don't have that legacy behind them, nor a college degree behind them they don't make as much income.


That makes sense. Honest question: wouldn't it be more direct to just factor the applicant's legacy into acceptance and skip race quotas altogether? It seems more direct to me, since race and legacy only correlate. College admissions already do this a little (e.g. "Are you a first-generation college student?"). I'm just wondering.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Merely Observing
Member for 7 years
Conversation Starter Friendly Beginnings

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby SpiritDancer on Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:07 pm

Merely Observing wrote:That makes sense. Honest question: wouldn't it be more direct to just factor the applicant's legacy into acceptance and skip race quotas altogether? It seems more direct to me, since race and legacy only correlate. College admissions already do this a little (e.g. "Are you a first-generation college student?"). I'm just wondering.

Personally, I feel it would probably be a little hard to keep track of if we did it that way. I may be completely wrong about that though.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
SpiritDancer
Scholar
Member for 6 years
Contributor Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Builder Storyteller Beta Tester Arc Warden Friendly Beginnings Person of Interest Visual Appeal Greeter Salesman Property Buyer Tipworthy Lifegiver

FyreT1ger wrote:I'm not sure how recent you think that is, but I've seen it most of my life and I'm thirty. The terms racism and sexism are only ever used in cases of white people saying something a black person dislikes or a man saying something a woman dislikes.

Making quotas of certain race groups for an office or school is just as racist, because it's favoring certain people based on racial traits and not actual skills.


I agree that forcing companies to maintain a quota is silly. I understand why it's done in the USA (less than three generations ago students had to be escorted by the military to and from school. And I mean the military, not the national guard; even they were too racist to do their job) and the history behind it, and why people support it, but it's silly and outdated. Racism and class/race disadvantage is systemic now, not systematic, and while that sucks it isn't cured by inhibiting progress by prohibiting qualified and able citizens from seeking employment on the basis of "Well history was nicer to you."

It's true and sad about the cycle of "That's OUR word" or "I'm allowed to say that, I'm so-and-so or such-and-such." I understand, again, how and why people see the appropriation of certain words, phrases, or ideas can be redirected for empowerment, but bad history is just bad history.

Because I see a pattern in history of white people having advantages, I can say with absolute certainty that all white people should now be disadvantaged, because that's fair.

No, it isn't; if you're a woman alive today in the USA, yes it's still possible that you'll be paid less or face sexual harassment or the other nonsense and shenanigans that stupid people do. You know what else is possible? Going to the court system, citing constitutional rights, and suing. It's the same for all groups in the United States that have been historically oppressed: They have the power now to pursue equality, but they do not have the right in so doing to deny equality to any other group in doing so. All these misandrists who call themselves feminists that espouse horrifically anti-man views don't want equality; they want inequality to benefit them. Proponents of affirmative action are asking for the same thing: Let's disadvantage someone else for arbitrary reasons, or historical events of which I and the people alive today were not a part of. It's silly.

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who is doing it or who the victim of. If you hate every Nazi that participated in the Holocaust and refuse to serve them at your restaurant, you're discriminating, whether your parents are victims of their atrocities or not. You can morally justify how so ever you please, but if the constitution or body of law of the nation of which you are a citizen states that all people are free to eat at all restaurants regardless of political affiliations or criminal records, you have no legal basis for denying service.

The people who are "redefining racism/sexism to fit their narrative" are not new. They do so either because they're ignorant of history, hypocrites, or liars whose narrative does not include a proper definition of those ideas or who do not understand or truly care for what equality is.
Do you feel like you're a bad writer? PM me, and let's talk about it. :)

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
MayContainPlagiarism
Member for 6 years
Promethean Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration Conversationalist Lifegiver Tipworthy

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Saarai on Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:45 pm

Because committing genocide shouldn't bar you from eating pancakes in my restaurant, right? This is where this white America, and white Britain, circlejerk falls apart. You all live in a world where you didn't deal with chattel slavery just 180 years ago, lynchings just 60, institutional racism in the courts and colleges.

It's hypocrisy at it's finest to say black people or women are redefining racism and sexism to say white people or males are racist.

No, what we've seen in the last year or two is black people and women being more willingly to call you out on racism and sexism. You just aren't used to it.

So, you feel threatened. You call them ignorant, or hypocrites while doing exactly what you accuse them of. You say do away with Affirmative Action, which many agree with. Unfortunately, doing away with it doesn't change that without it the prejudices of those in power are free to see the light of day.

No longer can a qualified black or Hispanic man get into his dream college by being given an equal opportunity to show his worth.

Now he's denied because his name is Jose or Tyrese.

There's a very clear lack of understanding when it comes to what minorities go through every single day, myself included growing up in Japan and America as a mixed-raced person.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Saarai
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Novelist Millionaire Arc Warden Party Starter Lifegiver Tipworthy Person of Interest

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Aniihya on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:01 pm

Race is an unbelievably stupid concept that isn't even backed by any science. And people can be crappy regardless of sex. I don't understand why people have to make issues of every little difference.

By the way, most of the "redefining" is done by "white" women from the upper middle class.
Everybody! Unless you have been in a roleplay with me in the past and were loyal to it, do not PM or text me about joining your RP.

I do NOT do Pokemon, Yugioh, WoW or any such RPs.

Please be aware of this.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Aniihya
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Greeter Tipworthy Tipworthy Visual Appeal Person of Interest Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:23 pm

Saarai wrote:Because committing genocide shouldn't bar you from eating pancakes in my restaurant, right? This is where this white America, and white Britain, circlejerk falls apart. You all live in a world where you didn't deal with chattel slavery just 180 years ago, lynchings just 60, institutional racism in the courts and colleges.

No, what we've seen in the last year or two is black people and women being more willingly to call you out on racism and sexism. You just aren't used to it.

Institutionalized racism would prevent black people from ever succeeding, and yet America has a black president in Barack Obama and had a black Attorney General in Eric Holder until last year. Or perhaps its because the population in white dominate countries has been slowly sliding away from a white majority due to declining birth rates. Racism on the streets? Maybe verbal abuse, but you can't possibly be talking about violent crimes. Statistics available to anybody show that the large majority of violent crimes committed by any race are committed against the same race.

No longer can a qualified black or Hispanic man get into his dream college by being given an equal opportunity to show his worth.

From my understanding, as there are certain racial quotas colleges must meet, don't some people with lower requirements than other people get in because they are non-white? And what do you mean by 'no longer'? Are you saying things are getting worse? If you look at sweeping statistics, life expectancy of non-whites (in America) is rising, their unemployment rates are slowly lowering and their number of college applications is rising. Though admittedly none of the statistics I saw were of 2015, so maybe that would contradict me.

I hate this topic. You always have to walk around the edge of it for fear of being called racist. Well if I can't escape being called racist, I want to ask these questions.
Why do non-white groups ignore racism that occurs against white people?
If racism against whites doesn't exist in America, does it exist in Zimbabwe, where white farmers had their farms taken from them, often by force, and given to black farmers?
Does it mean racism is country-specific?
Is racism literally a matter of who is in power and who is the majority?

These are rhetorical questions. They are meant to provoke thought, not answers. I have clearly made up my mind on the topic. But I grew up in Australia in what had to be one of the nicest places in the world and surrounded by nice people growing up in a time when the town was wealthy from an industrial boom. I was never exposed to harsh racism, and even now when I live nearer rural communities and closer to Indigenous Australians I still don't see racism. So maybe I'm a bad judge on the topic, and America is a lot worse. All I have is an outsider perspective, second-hand information and statistics I can find on the internet.
Circ wrote:When I first joined RolePlayGateway, it was a place where positive conflict fostered creativity and friendships were formed rather than cliques. Honesty and transparency were valued, new people were incorporated into the community rather than judged based on what style of writing they preferred, and despite the youthfulness and zeal of the population there prevailed a reasonable degree of common sense.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Patcharoo
Legend
Legend
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Donated! Millionaire Arc Warden Beta Tester Contributor Group Theory Person of Interest Tipworthy Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Saarai on Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:18 pm

That's false dichotomy. It's not successful person of color or the other, nor does having a black president suddenly erase racist thoughts from the minds of people of any color or creed. I don't understand why people keep raising that up as a sign of a post-racial society. It's progress, not the end result.

America has made progress, it's also erased progress over time. You see, those quotas you speak of are often instated by the policymakers in the university, usually because of monetary gain. And no, they aren't poorer students, they're just not white and they aren't being picked over equally qualified white students.

As the state of California has shown us, once you do away with them the people accepted into the college change exponentially. In California specifically, the Asian invasion begins. We'll see what it looks like in other places where the demographics are different.

Non-white groups don't ignore racism towards white peoples, it's just unfortunate that white people in many countries don't experience what people of color do in countries where white people are the majority.

You can cite Zimbabwe, but it's a country that's only had "independence" for a short time, and even then it's been almost solely under the control of a radical government.

You don't see that in a similar country like South Africa, it's all specific to specific places. A black person in Trinidad doesn't have the same environment to experience as a black person in Tanzania or Canada.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Saarai
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Novelist Millionaire Arc Warden Party Starter Lifegiver Tipworthy Person of Interest

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:48 pm

I bring up a black president and a black attorney general because you bring up institutionalized racism, which from my understanding is racism inherent to the system designed to keep certain races from succeeding, which I find hard to be true because there are black people in some of the most powerful positions in the United States of America. No one thinks (or said in this thread) that a black president ended racism.

All this tells me is that in California, the most qualified students are the Asian students. It seems unfair to assume that they are less qualified than the other students, and it raises questions as to why white-run colleges are favouring Asian students instead of white students. In fact as a whole, aren't Asian's subjected to racism?

Unfortunately Asians are listed as 'whites', making it hard to differentiate them by data.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Patcharoo
Legend
Legend
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Donated! Millionaire Arc Warden Beta Tester Contributor Group Theory Person of Interest Tipworthy Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Saarai on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:20 pm

Again, in reality it's not successful person of color or not. A person of color in power doesn't change what happens to people of color seeking similar goals. It's not and has never been either or, it's a hurdle purposely higher for some people than others.

Asians in California aren't being favored more, the process for accepting students has changed to not include their ethnicity. Everything is, mostly, based on the actual merits of the students.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Saarai
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Novelist Millionaire Arc Warden Party Starter Lifegiver Tipworthy Person of Interest

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby SpiritDancer on Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:16 pm

Patcharoo wrote:I bring up a black president and a black attorney general because you bring up institutionalized racism, which from my understanding is racism inherent to the system designed to keep certain races from succeeding, which I find hard to be true because there are black people in some of the most powerful positions in the United States of America. No one thinks (or said in this thread) that a black president ended racism.

Institutional racism doesn't outright stop people of color from being in positions of power, it's that they have to prove their worth more than white people have to in America. They'd have to work twice as hard to get to a point where a white person could get to without having to work as hard.

So yes, there are black people and other people of color in powerful positions, but they've had to work a lot harder than white people because of institutional racism.

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
SpiritDancer
Scholar
Member for 6 years
Contributor Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Builder Storyteller Beta Tester Arc Warden Friendly Beginnings Person of Interest Visual Appeal Greeter Salesman Property Buyer Tipworthy Lifegiver

Re: Redefining of Racism and Sexism to fit Your Narrative

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:35 pm

SpiritDancer wrote:Institutional racism doesn't outright stop people of color from being in positions of power, it's that they have to prove their worth more than white people have to in America. They'd have to work twice as hard to get to a point where a white person could get to without having to work as hard.

So yes, there are black people and other people of color in powerful positions, but they've had to work a lot harder than white people because of institutional racism.

Well its at this point I have to ask for proof.
As discussed with Saarai, there is racial quotas in many different environments. And in the example Saarai provided, it was not white people that benefited from them being removed, but Asians (who under demographic charts and census are listed as 'white', skewing the data as it did when Hispanics were listed as 'white').
I'd also like you to find me two people with the exact same qualifications. Even two people who undergo the same college degree have different part time jobs, extra curricular activities and overall results from that course. And even then, once you find places where someone has been snubbed by someone with the same or worse qualifications, you still have to consider outside factors like whether or not they were referred by an existing employee or a friend of the business owner, performance in interviews etc.
And on top of all that, you would need to provide evidence that the PoC's had to work harder to get where they were than the white people. (And there's a chance that even that data could be skewed by environmental factors).

Tip jar: the author of this post has received 0.00 INK in return for their work.

User avatar
Patcharoo
Legend
Legend
Member for 12 years
Promethean Conversation Starter Author Inspiration World Builder Conversationalist Friendly Beginnings Novelist Donated! Millionaire Arc Warden Beta Tester Contributor Group Theory Person of Interest Tipworthy Lifegiver


Post a reply

Make a Donation

$

Become a Patron!

RPG relies exclusively on user donations to support the platform.

Donors earn the "Contributor" achievement and are permanently recognized in the credits. Consider donating today!

 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron