RPG's New Design Team

maccotango · **Tips:** 1.50 INK by **maccotango** on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:41 am

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Hi everyone! I'm maccotango, your friendly neighborhood mod and newly-appointed Designers Team Lead. Although saying 'team' may be a wee bit of an exaggeration, as I'm currently the only member. Boo! But I'm here to rectify that. This is an official invite to everyone to come join me in making RPG a prettier, and more importantly, a much more intuitive place!

But wait, what is the Designers Team exactly?

As the title may imply, our job is design. While visuals definitely feature heavily in our arsenal (we'll be in charge of forum icons and moderating the Artist's Cafe), aesthetics isn't the only thing involved. Remember how I mentioned that we wanted to make RPG more intuitive? This means that we'll be looking to streamline how people perceive the flow of information on the website. We'll be working with Remæus, giving him feedback on how we think we can improve our little slice of the web and make it friendlier for everyone involved.

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Despite what it may seem, the Design Team does not require for you to have formal training/education in art and design. It's heavily encouraged and appreciated to have knowledge of the subject, but again, if you don't have a real background in it, it's perfectly fine. We're looking for people who have, at the very least, an understanding of the basic principles of design (C.R.A.P.) and are able to articulate exact characteristics of what makes a design good or bad.

Being part of the Designers Team requires a strict sense of self-discipline and time. By applying, you're signing up for a commitment. Unfortunately, a lot of the work in the Designers Team requires you to donate actual hours in the form of drawing/creating mock-ups, going through feedback regarding site UI and other such matters. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who isn't willing to give up around two-three hours per week (possibly more, depending on what we have on the projects list), and I don't/won't blame you if you choose to step away from the job should things get busy on your end. It's why I heavily encourage you think it through before turning in your application.

Other useful skills would be familiarity with/willingness to learn about GitHub and the Adobe creative software package (or any similar programs like Corel or GIMP).

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If you check the below copy-pasta code, you'll see there's a distinct lack of formatting. This was intentional; since you're gunning for the Designers Team, apply your knowledge of good design to your app. Which parts should be emphasized, how should you use proximity to your advantage? You're free to re-arrange the information if you believe there's a better way to present it. Don't get too elaborate about it though; in the end it's still just BBcoding, and that it'd be best to present a professional image. The only requirements are that the final product should still contain all the information, and that it be sent in a private message to me, maccotango, with the subject 'Designers Application'.

Code: Select all: Username: Timezone: Hours Spent on the Site (per week): Skills: (versed in PS, familiar with GitHub, can do CSS/HTML... that sort of thing) Art/Design Background (if any): Online Portfolio (if any): Why do you want to join the Designers Team? What do you consider your greatest strength and best selling point to us? What do you think you could improve on? In terms of design and the site-to-user experience, what could be improved on in RPG?

The_Queen · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **The_Queen** on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:56 pm

Love that you're trying to make things pretty but please, if it's not broken, don't "fix" it.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:12 am

@The_Queen
Excuse me, but as you might expect, any sort of coding will require some troubleshooting. If the site breaks, this is not an intended feature. It's the result of Rem trying to figure out really old code as he tries to update it. While Design does include "prettifying" things, we're founded on making the website intuitive.

The_Queen · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **The_Queen** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:23 am

Alright, I wasn't saying that you were the one responsible for breaking it, I was simply making a request since most of the settings on RPG are very user friendly.

P.S. I have always admired the complexity of your RP layouts.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:38 am

@The_Queen
I still believe that wasn't the best way to put it, as Rem did create this website. He's genuinely trying to improve it for everyone, and to do that he may end up encountering all sorts of bugs and errors. Currently, the site code is over a decade old and no longer conforms to modern standards; whenever he updates something, it won't really behave the same way anymore. Please be patient with him!

I would personally beg to differ about RPG being user-friendly. We're good, but by more current criteria, not good enough, which is why we're trying to make it better. We're way behind on the roleplay-website race, and it's time we played catch-up and exceed them. We have a good base; we just need to update.

bethelit · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **bethelit** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:41 am

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Hey @The_Queen! Fellow design major, so I thought I'd submit my $0.02.

I can see where you're coming from, but as a design student, I can understand the necessity for a Design Team. The reality is that RPG, while functional and user-friendly, is behind on the times. The site's code itself is archaic, and the aesthetics too. While good, the site is hardly perfect, and the Design Team is a great way to solve old problems while paving the way for a stronger interface. The Design Team kills two birds with one stone. ;)

Cheers, and hope that helps!

- EDIT -
Just saw that @Maccotango posted more or less the same thing, haha. Design students unite!

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The_Queen · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **The_Queen** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:43 am

I apologize, my intentions weren't meant to offend. Now that I understand a bit more, I wish you and Rem the best of luck.

FeistyDeadlySins · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **FeistyDeadlySins** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:23 am

I'm looking forward to a new layout since RPG is indeed out of date visually. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (good or bad), so I believe that Queen just voiced hers without the intention of causing any drama. She just meant that she already loves the site how it is, but it is indeed always up to the owner of the site no matter what the members think of it.

I think a more visually attractive site will be nice to the eyes :)

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:46 am

It was a simple case of misunderstanding. Next time I will ask for clarification on the issue!

The website will be getting a few tweaks and changes until we completely move over to a new code. The Designers Team is excited to show you all how small things we got used to could be a huge Quality of Life change! Some things on our list would be how one tags a Location, our landing page and a bugfix + additional features to our notifications system.

We're currently targeting these changes before we head over to the #aesthetic side of things. c: Still, they should go a long way to how the site feels whenever you use it.

Blazezon · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Blazezon** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:32 am

I leave, and my ideas get implemented, hah! Timing is funny that way. Anywho, best of luck, Macco, even if I still think you may be a robot. c:

Kestrel · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Kestrel** on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:47 am

The only user-friendly part to gateway is inherent to a forum and the ideas of tabs to roleplay tabs. Both of which are executed better very commonly. There is dire need of a design team and more importantly; devs to make it actually work. A roleplay forum will always thrive more on it's community than design, but it needs to be usable. Right now, in terms of usability is an absolute trash heap. To name a few examples;

Can't edit posts older than 2 weeks. Can't update OP's and relations threads.
Can't edit IC posts older than 2 weeks, so if you use coding I hope you copied it off-site.
Have to manually type the name of every character you want to tag, Japanese characters their sheets begin with their family names, whereas they're usually referred to by their first IC regardless.
Can't edit locations. Always starts on default, regardless of where the past posts took place.
Searching roleplays is a disaster. Be it because the tab simply doesn't display them, be it because storages can't be differentiated from roleplays.
The global chat is present in every roleplay as a tab for no reason whatsoever except prolonging your load time and making you hate your fat fingers on mobile.
Various bugs with displaying activity in OOC sections when you have more than one related OOC threads.
Deleting roleplays is almost impossible to figure how to on your own, because you have to go to your activity log, scroll down it, which is like the least intuitive choice you could possibly make for it's position.

And so forth.

I hope this amounts to something, because it seems to be a volunteer project, but is definitely necessary.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:24 am

As a note to future respondents, may I request that you keep your tones civil and polite. We'd like to facilitate a discussion on how to improve RPG, but if you're going to insinuate that we're trash compared to other websites, then that's just rude and uncalled for. We ourselves realize that we're behind which is why we're aiming to catch up.

@Kestrel
I'm going to respond to those point by point right now.

* Regarding being unable to edit thing: Actually, both of these are more related to Rem's own rules (same reason why we never delete anything, and just archive). We'll take the feedback, but it'd be best to bring it up with him!

* What would you propose would be a better idea? o: Genuinely curious, and not trying to be rude about it. Dropdown menus and tagging via character portraits aren't feasible in large-scale roleplays like the MV. I personally prefer typing them down, although I could do without the case-sensitivity.

* You can edit locations when you write a post. You're unable to move it after posting, but you can choose which location whenever you post. Please look to the right side of the posting area [x] and click the dropdown menu. We're working on making this more intuitive/not as easily overlooked, but the fact remains that it's there.
If you're talking about how all other posts could be in one place and you want to join them automatically, do take note of the fact that some roleplays will have multiple locations with activity at the same time.

* The search system does need an update. 100% Agreed.

* Global Chat is in each roleplay due to Console Commands. If you're unfamiliar with them, they're for building "rooms" in Places, adding GM's and other cues. We agree that it's time we moved on from them, but that's the reason why it's present in all roleplays.

* This is more specifically bugfix than design, isn't it? o: I've raised it up to Rem, but he hasn't figured out the problem yet.

* While I agree it's unintuitive, there's an easier way to do it than what you mentioned. Go to your roleplay page, click Flag. We're working on giving GM's freedom to open/close their roleplays, and making it more obvious as to how they can do so.

Anyway, I hope that addresses your current concerns!

Kestrel · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Kestrel** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:43 am

I'm pretty sure there's a million tickets about the editing of posts/locations already ;p Still, it's very user-unfriendly, considering you're forcing them to use specific organisational measures that aren't pre-faced to the user when you start organising. If it's, for whatever reason, kept this way, it is a concern for design to inform users.

The point about locations was about editing them after posting (cause I can't count the wrong location posts on my fingers anymore in the few RP's I've taken part in at all) I don't really like locations anyway, because most of the time I feel it's irrelevant 'cause players are in the same general vicinity. It also forces you to make 2 posts separate if you play 2 characters when they actually are in a different spot at the same time. I haven't researched it besides my nagging instinct of "it's inelegant bloat" and I'm sure you have more info on it's actual use, so this paragraph is prolly more rant than feedback.

The multiverse is a beast all it's own, but most roleplays don't have that many characters. Right now there's a (not working last time I checked) way to tag characters in the last post below the posting box. This would work with recently featured characters within X posts past. You mentioned notifications, which I assume would go hand in hand with character tagging. I mean it might not be easy to make it look pretty and clean, but single clicks would beat a dropdown which is 2 and possibly a scroll, for a feature used pretty much every time someone posts. If you choose to keep locations, you could filter 'em that way also. tl;dr, as little clicks and mouse movement as possible.

I haven't created a lot of RP's for a while (and considering even closed RP's linger 'round in the roleplay drop-down I don't really wanna test it now,) so that complaint about flagging mighta been outdated. Though not being able to abandon characters faces a similar issue in that it's stuffed away from the places I generally look at characters (RP page, sheet itself.)

I hope that helps.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:30 am

Yup, I realize the site is behind on user unfriendliness. This wasn't an issue 10 years ago when there were few websites with RPG's capabilities but alas, times change. :P

It's something we'll have to discuss with Rem, and it would help change his mind if more people voiced their thoughts about it. Right now all we really get is quiet grumbling, very few real feedback about how it can't be edited and solid reasons/examples as to why it might be required. I can think of a lot myself, but more voices means a bigger chance it can be changed.

I'm a big fan of locations, and so are many others. I doubt it'll be removed anytime soon. Writing separate posts for each character is actually a common practice on websites with features similar to RPG, based on my experiences. I tend to do it automatically, even on forum-based roleplays. :P At this point I think it might just be what both of us are used to.

Not 100% sure if you're aware, but if you click a specific location, you can view all posts that were in that area. That's how the recently featured characters thing works (see x). One of the main reasons why I'm such a big fan of locations!

Ah yeah, the dropdown thing's a coding issue. :P We're aiming to get it removed. As for abandoning characters, I actually find it very intuitive to go to the "View Your Characters" page to see what should be abandoned. o: Although I agree that adding it to the RP tab or sheet itself would be incredibly useful.

Anyway, these things above are mostly QoL changes that are functional, but not necessarily intuitive. We're going to change that, but thank you very much for the feedback.

Kestrel · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Kestrel** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:59 am

maccotango wrote:It's something we'll have to discuss with Rem, and it would help change his mind if more people voiced their thoughts about it. Right now all we really get is quiet grumbling, very few real feedback about how it can't be edited and solid reasons/examples as to why it might be required. I can think of a lot myself, but more voices means a bigger chance it can be changed.

Practical example; Relationships threads. If people's relationships change or new characters are added, either new posts have to be made or relations can't be posted in threads.

IC-posts, some people save their post coding off-site. I find myself reproducing it because a a character didn't get a post for 2 weeks. When I reread posts to remember the context of a scene, I also tend to notice spelling or style errors, which I can no longer fix. Seems like a small thing, sure, but it's actually rather annoying and as a user I don't like it when a site basically says "deal with it."

Info threads for OOCs. Something changes? Your RP's system or lore updates? You're SoL if you want to use threads. I mean you CAN use the roleplay itself, but it forces the user to adapt to what the system wants, not vice versa. Speaking of which;

maccotango wrote:Writing separate posts for each character is actually a common practice on websites with features similar to RPG

This entire sentence kind of summarises it for me, you adjust your behaviour to the feature rather than vice versa ;p

maccotango wrote:Not 100% sure if you're aware, but if you click a specific location, you can view all posts that were in that area. That's how the recently featured characters thing works (see x). One of the main reasons why I'm such a big fan of locations!

Which is an issue in and of itself, because you show the feature in activity and allow people to post in activity, but then only use the feature when posting in locations and don't tell the user.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's intuitive. Generally, if you have to explain something, it isn't. To post in locations and use the feature, you either have to find a post in that location and click on the location, or click your activity log link to the right where it says the location of where it's been posting, or go to the places tab and then click the location. Meanwhile, maybe I also want to read what people in other places have posted. I either have to bounce between places or a place and the activity tab. It's a lot of extra time, actions and pageloads just to be able to both tag people and read everything.

Also, just the most recent post is kind of silly, because if John and Jane are having a convo and Chris and I are having another, unrelated one, but both are in the same school cafeteria, it's now useless to me whenever John or Jane posts.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:22 am

As I've said, when it comes to post-editing, I am not the person to talk to about it. Talk about it with Rem. I, unfortunately, have no control about this aspect of the website. There's a feedback button Rem regularly checks. Please use that instead when it comes to this subject.

I would argue that we're all dictated by what we grew up around in some way. You grew up in an environment that encouraged condensing posts. That's fine. But I grew up in one wherein people expected you to separate your character posts. Please don't use it as an argument, as I admitted that this particular section is very dependent on what you grew used to.

I already admitted that they're possible but not intuitive at the moment, Kestrel. Please see last statement in my previous post. I just wanted to explain that these features you mentioned do exist or work, and to inform whoever happened to read that they are there.

And for that last bit, as far as I know it will take into consideration posts beyond the most recent one.

Kestrel · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Kestrel** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:41 am

maccotango wrote:As I've said, when it comes to post-editing, I am not the person to talk to about it. Talk about it with Rem. I, unfortunately, have no control about this aspect of the website. There's a feedback button Rem regularly checks. Please use that instead when it comes to this subject.

I was simply stating examples, since you mentioned you had an idea and wanted more voices. I understand it's not your responsibility to change or fix this and I did not mean to imply this.

maccotango wrote:I would argue that we're all dictated by what we grew up around in some way. You grew up in an environment that encouraged condensing posts. That's fine. But I grew up in one wherein people expected you to separate your character posts. Please don't use it as an argument, as I admitted that this particular section is very dependent on what you grew used to.

Yes, people looking down on double posting during a forum environment shaped my habits, but I'm not saying you must do X instead of Y. I'm saying it doesn't facilitate X. The solution isn't to cater to a different habit, but to facilitate multiple forms of expression.

maccotango wrote:I already admitted that they're possible but not intuitive at the moment, Kestrel. Please see last statement in my previous post. I just wanted to explain that these features you mentioned do exist or work, and to inform whoever happened to read that they are there.

My intention was to elaborate, is all. I tried to be clearer in my communication. I don't know if you interpret my posts as aggressive or dismissive towards you personally, but if so, that is not at all what I'm going for.

maccotango · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **maccotango** on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:03 am

I will be honest and say that I did misconstrue your statements as dismissive. Consider ourselves gucci.

So going back to the second statement, that's ideally our aim. Realistically speaking though, I just can't promise that all/many methods would be feasible. It's simply a fact that no solution we end up with will be perfect, and it's in RPG's best interests to pursue a path that caters best to its playerbase.

LawOfTheLand · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **LawOfTheLand** on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:41 am

Non-design person here. I always focused on the quality of the text itself and left making it look pretty to the Designer folk.

Couldn't a relationship status be reflected in a character's activity/history instead of being maintained in an OOC list? Just a thought.

bethelit · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **bethelit** on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:38 pm

LawOfTheLand wrote:Non-design person here. I always focused on the quality of the text itself and left making it look pretty to the Designer folk.

Couldn't a relationship status be reflected in a character's activity/history instead of being maintained in an OOC list? Just a thought.

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Hey @LawOfTheLand! Relationship tracking can be essential to certain plays, and it's great that you're suggesting a more convenient option. Interesting idea, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Several players have expressed to me that keeping the relationship section in their character's activity/history often feels like clutter. However, I'd love to hear your side of things.

What specifically do you feel could be improved upon in terms of tracking relationship statuses? Are there other options you'd recommend as well if not migrating relationships to character activity/history?

Thanks again for voicing your input, and I look forward to hearing your $0.02. (:

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RPG's New Design Team

a topic in The Artist's Cafe, a part of the RPG forum.

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