The Multiverse

The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

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The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rulke on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:22 pm

Discussing with many people in last few months, it's obvious, Multiverse has major issues. I know I'm perhaps pushing this too much, but well it needs to be discussed, and I would love if I could take more part in this world, but it's got no parameters and no real substance --- this works in some way, but not in others, and this really limits it. It doesn't matter how many different universes exist within the Multiverse, they contain a similar pattern to one another and have order. It isn't a jumble of chaotic events one after another but rather a system of structure, rules, and parameters that facilitate the boundaries necessary for story to be bred and have the chance to evolve into colorful imaginary.

For instance if MV is almost destroyed by a being, more people should take notice, this never happened -- it was by Jerico.

I think it's just time to stop ignoring issue, and talk about it here.

Now rules are.

Be respectful

No flaming

Provide evidence for your opinions or suggestions.
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yet still they don’t respect us.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:13 pm

You can't force canon into the Multiverse. All you can do is get so many people to agree that it happened (to their characters) that it almost becomes canon. And even then, its only true to those people.

I'm doing this right now, in an epic plot. D'yknow how long I've spent on this plot? Better half of this year just building up to an event that I expect will only be recognised by a handful of good roleplayers.

And that's good enough for me.

You can't expect every single person in the Multiverse to go 'Oh look, an epic powered barfight broke out and nearly destroyed the Multiverse. I should comment on this'. Making a recognisable event takes time, effort and skill, and even then it will only be immediately recognised by those immediately affected.

So if you want the Multiverse nearly being destroyed by everyone, you will have to include everyone in an epic and lengthy roleplay. It is the only way, I have found, to get actual recognition.

Edit: Substance is created by the players. If the players do not create substance, there is none. But even a good player can make a mistake and do something that's a little hard to just accept as 'it happened'.
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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Mr. Crow on Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:24 pm

I actually wouldn't mind having some "forced" canon in the MV. That is how anyone makes up a world(s). You have information to go on. Something to inspire or interest you in writing.

It's already been established that anything and everything can, and most likely will, happen in the Multiverse. Just like little (insignificant in the public eye) things that happen in the real world aren't known to eveyone on earth, little things in the Multiverse aren't going to be known by everyone. And they don't have to be.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make isn't entirely in correlation with Rulke's proposal. I believe that an 'epic plot' shouldn't just be recognized by only a handful of people who browse in the chat and happen to hear of the event through word of mouth OOC wise, or simply the individuals who were involved in the unraveling of the plot itself. There ARE other writers who want to know what the heck has happened in the Multiverse.

Think about it. Few people want to walk into a story whose history/backstory/or what have you, is buried upon their first step. A new player would only have a small chance of digging up all the extravagant, and impactful plot events that exist in the MV. Important events that aren't publicly revealed have no meaning in the general perspective.

In other words- The tree that fell in the forest, when no one was around to hear it, still made a sound, but no one realizes the difference because they weren't there to hear it.

(And, 'yes', I do in fact realize that the NewsFeed accomplishes this in its own way, but only to a certain degree.)

In order for the historical events to have meaning to the present population/generation, they have to be recorded. Everyone can agree with that, right?

I think, my point is, there should be a way for new players to have access to the events/plots that have taken place in the Multiverse, besides just trying to scavage for it on the forums/tab.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Harlequin Smile on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Patch.

I have to disagree. You can and should force canon into the multiverse, because how else are you supposed to impact events there otherwise? Everyone that plays in the multiverse should know that they have the power to mould reality around themselves with their words, that their every act shapes the universe(s) both they and others play in.

And that's an incredible power to have. Of course people cant just wander on in and twist the entire canon into a pretzel with a twitch of a finger. I'm sure no one here is actually saying that that is a good thing, or what anyone intends to do, and if characters do have that sort of godlike power then you've got to question why they're bothering to RP, because if you have infinite power then there's no challenge, no reason for your character to exist besides a childish power fantasy. What I see it as is more along the lines of your 'epic plot.' If people know that their acts are more likely to shape what's to come, to influence the way others around them RP, then they're more likely to put actual thought into their actions, into the future repercussions of their present movements. More to the point, if someone starts up an 'epic plot' and everyone knows that they're free to actually join in with it, to help create it and shape it further, then they're more likely to care about how this is impacting their characters instead of brushing it off and getting on with their own thing.

This gives people room to play, and scope for their actions beyond the now. Taking the example you gave, an epically powerful barfight almost breaking the universe, well, if your character doesnt like it, then you have to oppose it. Dont just comment on it offhand, or worse, ignore it completely. If the universe near shattered, then how is that actually going to affect you? 'sides some of the most recognisable events come in a flash, with little warning, and dont need time and much effort on the part of the player, just an insightful comment or one little act at the perfect time. I wont argue that it takes serious skill, though.

I suppose that's what it really comes down to. Skill and accountability. Having a multiverse where every action sticks, no matter how ridiculous or out of character some would deem it to be, puts a massive burden of trust on every single person in here. The trust that we're all skilled enough to RP effectively and collaboratively, and the trust that one person isnt going to wander in and effectively ruin everything, or at least that there are systems in place that stop people from annihilating the world we've all worked for in one swift movement. Not to mention if someone breaks the world and everyone actually has to deal with it, then the person who smashed everything isnt going to the most popular chicken for a while. Again, accountability. It's a self sustaining system. You've got to know that there are repercussions, that your actions will actually have a visceral response, otherwise what's the point in doing anything?

In my eyes, this meshes with another post that you actually posted on here. 'Improving the community.' I honestly believe that if you give people the means to shape their own world, the freedom to play knowing that their acts have meaning, then they'll band together and surprise you, without any need or input from any of the veterans.

Give people the tools and the impetus to change their world and they'll build amazing things.

Q.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:56 am

A few simple responses.

1. Who enforces canon? For it to be enforced players would have to force mods or admins to look through then verify that it actually happened.
2. Do we take quality of roleplayer into account? If some poor quality roleplayers do an RP that radically changes some sort of effect to the world, has a plot involving a dozen people and goes through the time to make it count, do we care if they still can't spell properly, write overly cliche'd and predictable plots, auto-hit and godmode those involved and can't write more than two lines of text to describe anything, do we allow it?
3. Do we in turn allow someone who causes the same affect (in the long run) does the same time and RP's with the same number of people be acknowledged if their roleplay is substantially higher in quality? (Note, I mean a higher quality roleplay in all aspects, not just hgiher quality posting).

I'll throw casually out there, I have a plot currently working in the Multiverse. I don't exactly want someone else to ask to be invited, because I don't have room. In fact, majority of my plots started off as 'Hey, want to go RP?' and then it just developing from there.

Under this suggestion of only allowing some of the plots being canon, I'd be happy to PM you the end results of an RP I don't intend to be acknowledged. I took the lack of acknowledgement as a liberty to cause as much trouble as I felt appropriate. But as its still running, I am so not posting any details here.

I will note that the only canon really acknowledged is the nation roleplayers, and when someone else tries to influence this canon without permission from the players (but still insisting they deserve a fair share at establishing it) it went bad. Just ask any of them. Ask them about skull.

On the flip side, while discussing this with someone very reasonable they suggested an Alternate Multiverse that contains some degree of canon. I'm personally all for that as a solution.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Harlequin Smile on Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:47 am

1. No. Not at all. That's the point of group accountability. Everyone is responsible for verifying current canon. Sure, if you want a couple of mods who look after the current affairs, maybe keep track of recent changes, then cool, it'll help people keep up to speed, but it isnt necessary.

2. Again, no. How can you justify prejudging people based on their skill as a roleplayer and limiting their impact on the world because they're not at your level, or a baseline level you judge to be good enough? As long as someone's willing to try, willing to learn, then you let them be, surely. If someone's screwing everything up then, by natural social law, they'll either have to learn to get better or stop doing what they're doing entirely.

3. I'm sorry, but I dont understand this question. Could you reclarify?

See, from what you said at the bottom, it seems that there're established cliques who look ill on anyone who aint one of them, and that's not what I'm going for at all. In fact, that's pretty much the exact opposite of what I was saying up there. Doesnt make a difference anyway. I came at the question from a purely theoretical viewpoint, ignoring everything that's already in place. If you want people to be able to affect canon, it should be an all or nothing gig. Anything else'll just lead to dissatisfied parties. Like you, ferinstance. I'd be interested in seeing that PM log though, yeah.

Oh yeah, one last thing.

I'll throw casually out there, I have a plot currently working in the Multiverse. I don't exactly want someone else to ask to be invited, because I don't have room. In fact, majority of my plots started off as 'Hey, want to go RP?' and then it just developing from there.


I have to ask, honest question. Why bother to RP in the multiverse at all, if this is your attitude? If you arent willing to have people able to wander on in what you're doing, then RP in a controlled, forum based environment. Finding a corner to develop an insular plot with a couple of close friends defeats the idea of chat based RP entirely, to me. Just sayin'.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:32 am

Harlequin Smile wrote:
I'll throw casually out there, I have a plot currently working in the Multiverse. I don't exactly want someone else to ask to be invited, because I don't have room. In fact, majority of my plots started off as 'Hey, want to go RP?' and then it just developing from there.


I have to ask, honest question. Why bother to RP in the multiverse at all, if this is your attitude? If you arent willing to have people able to wander on in what you're doing, then RP in a controlled, forum based environment. Finding a corner to develop an insular plot with a couple of close friends defeats the idea of chat based RP entirely, to me. Just sayin'.


I am currently packing eight skilled roleplayers into the plot. On active days I am dual RPing with them and don't have time for any other roleplaying. I tried to include as many people as I could, and I found that as a GM in a chat scenario this is about my max. On the side, though, I roleplay with anyone. On an inactive day I'll openly run a one off with anyone.

So I throw back the question, do you actually go on the Multiverse/know me? Because I'm pretty active there. I just thought that was a known thing about me, since I don't RP anything but Multiverse. If you read my Improving the Community topic, I thought it would be kind of showing that I was promoting people RPing with others in the community that they don't normally, unless I've forgotten what I wrote there (entirely possible).

2. Again, no. How can you justify prejudging people based on their skill as a roleplayer and limiting their impact on the world because they're not at your level, or a baseline level you judge to be good enough? As long as someone's willing to try, willing to learn, then you let them be, surely. If someone's screwing everything up then, by natural social law, they'll either have to learn to get better or stop doing what they're doing entirely.


With this a lesser skilled player could, say, go back in time and say they were the original creator of the world, or establish that they own a city or some other convulutance. Establish a long lost lineage to an important established character. And that's fine, if its one person, but if it becomes a group of four or eight? There comes a point where enough roleplayers make it count, and then what happens to the other people in the canon? Do they just have to accept it because the player played it? It becomes a matter of how far does it go.

1. No. Not at all. That's the point of group accountability. Everyone is responsible for verifying current canon. Sure, if you want a couple of mods who look after the current affairs, maybe keep track of recent changes, then cool, it'll help people keep up to speed, but it isnt necessary.


Curious as to who keeps track of the canon, then. Like, does every player involved in the RP have to agree or...?

I'll PM you the planned result of my plot now, and you can tell me whether or not it would be fine to accept it.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Arceius on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:43 am

It is literally impossible, due to the nature of the multiverse itself, to create a MV wide hard canon. The reason for this is that the multiverse connects to all realities and facets of those realities. It contains everything that ever did, will, or does exist and all possible versions of those things. Now, it would be possible to refer to a specific 'instance' of an area in the multiverse and apply canon to it, but this should only be a user driven function. A group of players consciously agree to adopt any actions taking place in an instance of the multiverse as a canon for that instance. The NRP players are a great example of this. Certain users interact with these events and create them all, but none of them touch other players. In fact, users create these instances all the time, usually only canonizing anything that their character interacts with and discarding all else. So, in the end, this isn't a question of adding canon to the multiverse. It's a question of what canon would you like to upkeep for users to interact with?

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:56 am

One player did something particularly horrifying which was generally acknowledged by the community was glassing Terra, with space lasers, y'know? The outrage that someone would do this was immense, and it was politely and canonically moved to an alternate Terra. (It was canonical as the nation roleplay scene basically is). I think this works in your favour of a sort of 'User moderated canon'.

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Harlequin Smile on Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:37 am

I am currently packing eight skilled roleplayers into the plot. On active days I am dual RPing with them and don't have time for any other roleplaying. I tried to include as many people as I could, and I found that as a GM in a chat scenario this is about my max.


So... what would be the difference between doing this in the multiverse and/or basing this in your own Tab based RP chat area? See, this is what I was going for with the why bother RPing in the multiverse at all bit. If you're only including eight other people, and wouldnt be happy with anyone else dropping in and trying to be included, then you may as well not RP in the multiverse at all? I'm not saying that what you're doing is a bad thing, just that from the sounds of it you could quite easily make it a private RP elsewhere and change absolutely nothing about it.

As for visiting RPG's chat, and knowing you. No. Not anymore. Used to, but that was a while back, under a different mien. I've changed my face since then and havent been into the chat since. I'm going to field the obvious question now, which is 'So how the hell can you have an opinion on this.' Handily, it also ties in with Arceius's statement that you cant have a universal canon.

I'm currently involved in another site with several thousand members, several hundred of whom could be called regular users. The site is almost entirely chat based, as in 95%, with the other 5% user created media. It has a sitewide canon, enforced by the player base, updated as and when events happen. And major events do happen. Factions spring up, break down. Major places get annihilated. People die.

It works. Because everyone knows what's expected of them. And because everyone self moderates. If someone turned up and started, ooh, lets say glassing planets with space bombardments, then the regulars, at least those with the power to oppose them, would be able to oppose them.

Arceius says
So, in the end, this isn't a question of adding canon to the multiverse. It's a question of what canon would you like to upkeep for users to interact with?


See, this is essentially what I'm on about. It's a question of what's kept. And that's down to consensus rule. If you've got a strong, estabilished player base then they can and will maintain the canon. They have a vested interest in doing so.

With this a lesser skilled player could, say, go back in time and say they were the original creator of the world, or establish that they own a city or some other convulutance. Establish a long lost lineage to an important established character. And that's fine, if its one person, but if it becomes a group of four or eight? There comes a point where enough roleplayers make it count, and then what happens to the other people in the canon? Do they just have to accept it because the player played it? It becomes a matter of how far does it go.


Here's the thing. Not everything would have to be kept. All these world shattering events you seem to think would happen would and could be controlled and opposed. You've got to realise that for every mookle who'd think that springing back in time and turning themselves into the de facto ruler of the universe ultra awesome gary stu, you'd have ten more who'd think that was ridiculous and oppose it. It's group rule, and with so many regulars here, so many estabilished people, the ability of one person to drop in and screw everything up is almost nothing, unless all the regulars just sit on by and let them do it. Would you, if someone dropped in to this RP you've been running for so long, worked so hard to create? If you wouldnt, then why wouldnt everyone else?

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Patcharoo on Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:17 am

Harlequin Smile wrote:So... what would be the difference between doing this in the multiverse and/or basing this in your own Tab based RP chat area? See, this is what I was going for with the why bother RPing in the multiverse at all bit. If you're only including eight other people, and wouldnt be happy with anyone else dropping in and trying to be included, then you may as well not RP in the multiverse at all? I'm not saying that what you're doing is a bad thing, just that from the sounds of it you could quite easily make it a private RP elsewhere and change absolutely nothing about it.

Maybe I haven't been clear. In this plot of eight or ten people I have recently found myself sacrificing character development because I was so busy trying to manage scenes in the plot. Its not 'I don't want to RP with more than eight people' it's a literal lack of ability to manage the plot with any more players. I haven't picked these eight players and then said 'Your characters may now only roleplay with other characters involved with this plot' and in fact there are many side plots running that do contribute to character development that are not overall directly connected to my plot. Additionally, this plot is open ended. At the finish I expect there to be half a dozen loose ends which will lead to continued roleplaying with these people and others.

I'm not trying to cut myself off from the greater part of the community, I'm at my limit of GMing ability.

In fact, this roleplay spawned from interactions with another player, and the effects they had on my character, along with my own desire to have a more epic plot and to make something really big and special and involve a bunch of people. Why the Multiverse? Because after its over I can continue using the characters involved and continue seeing the characters involved. The end of the plot is not the true end. The beginning is not the true beginning.

If at this point you're still saying 'Why not do it in your own RP' I think you're missing the general spirit of the Multiverse.


Alright, let's look on it in a different light. If everyone agrees with something except for me, does this mean I have to deal with it or does my opinion override everyone elses? And when this happens, what if it is significant to my character? Like, by cause and effect my character would be dead?

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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby DemiKara on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:16 am

Oh, please don't ask about Skullstuki. Temper tantrums result. He declared,without a single IC battle fought, that not only had his nation taken over Terra it had taken over every single nation in the entire galaxy. Had this been acknowledged as canon, it would have essentially destroyed an RP some of the players have been working on for upwards of five years. Five years of playing!

After five years, of course they are protective. For some of the players. their nation has become their baby. Let them play. They've already said that they don't care if you don't acknowledge their canon. the only thing is, if you interact with any of the nations in that canon, than you must acknowledge said canon. That's just manners!

Manners hold the world together, you know.

I want you, for half a moment, to consider how very super duper large the multiverse is.

There are around 332 rooms. Assuming I counted correctly, and with that number I tend to have an error margin of 1 or 2, than that is still a huge lot of rooms. These rooms, since the archives first begin around 2009-08-17 around 16:00 hr or 4 pm (which is after, you know, the multiverse actually began as an RP). In that time, they have an average of 4004.9428 posts, with some rooms having non, and Gambit's Bar, by far the largest, having 1,010,188 posts. There is a total in the visible rooms of 1,329,641, and I know I've RPed in rooms not on that list, using the move commands to get to hidden warrens. This is hardly the truth, as some of the newest or most convoluted rooms don't have any posts. Hence, we can assume an even greater number of posts than listed since mid August, 2009.

With some posts lost, not recorded due to glitches, or some rooms not recorded, I'd say over the three year period a modest estimate of extra posts is 500.

Are we supposed to assume the canon of 1.3 million posts? What about where players have gone back, and chosen to 're-write' their characters history? What then?


Now, you may claim the numbers don't matter, the people do. Not all of the too-many-to-count-and-besides-I-can't-find-a-number players still RP at all, much less RP in the multiverse. Some of the thousands of characters used in the multiverse haven't a single post to their name, because the planned plot failed, or what have you.

So if we go for consensus based, than there is no NRP any more, because, trust me, the consensus is wildly against them. In a multi-verse which assumes multiple dimension, and multiple versions of the same planet and the same bar, than how fair is it to say 'Oh sorry, I know you've been working on this for several years now, but all that effort, all the writing, the planning, the knowledge learned to best deploy this and that, it's all in vain'?

Here's the thing.

Let me make if very clear.

The Multiverse as an RP assumes that multiple dimensions exist.

Again.

The Multiverse as an RP assumes that multiple dimensions exist.

I could repeat myself again, but I think twice ought to be enough.

In other words, why do you want to enforce a canon on an RP where multiple canons exist? There's no need to pick and choose what to keep and what to throw out. Frankly, it can all happen at the same time. The planet can be glassed and not be glassed at the exact same time. A character can exist, and can not exist at the exact same time. It can, in fact, be day and night at the exact same time.

Multiple dimensions. Ha! Aren't they fun?
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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby zewei on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:01 am

Oh dear gods. (facepalmer)

All of you and your wall of text. ALbeit all of them are thoughtful, insightful posts that share your views to everyone.
That's just not my style.

I don't know. It really has been ages since I last logged in or even joined the chat. Moreso with my job, my time has effectively been reduced to null. But i still recall the days.....

Joy in roleplaying. Let's narrow that down. Take note that the list below are different, different things.
A) Joy in creating worlds through words.
B) Joy in interacting with other characters.
C) Having fun.

Let's take a small look at C) and stare long and hard at a solid fact.
What someone may find enjoyable will be viewed as UNenjoyable by someone else. That's a fact. Since 'someone' and 'someone' is undefined, what i'm trying to say is that what you like may not be what others like.

Let's look at the multiverse or rather, let's look at the spirit of the multiverse years ago, when i first joined.
The multiverse. Where multidimensions collide! where anything and everything can happen.

I feel like playing romance. giant robots attacking the bar? Screw the giant robots, i came here for romance and i shall have my romance and i'm perfectly elligable to do so under the law that says multidimensions exist, and so, the two situations are at seperate events.

So why remain in gambit's bar? Because it also allows me to read on the other situation and find enjoyment in it. 2) allows me to see friends, and friends to see me and 3) allow others to take note of the roleplay i have going on, and if they are interested, ask me/the rp people if they could join.

And so the romance was broken by the girl's husband appearing, and punching the daylights out of my character.
That aside...

Let's look at the newbies....... na wait. I don't think i even want to talk about newbies and how they would react to 'canon' multiverse. I'll end my post here.
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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ViceVersus on Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:13 pm

Um. Okay. Bear with me. I read through what posts I saw, and took note on things that were said to the best of my ability. Here's where I stand on the Multiverse, where the Multiverse is to me, and yeah. I guess.

I agree that there needs to be a set baseline. For instance, the name of the bar. The name of the world that the bar is on. The name of cities, nearby things like that. There can be a set system of government, the Wing City Police Department, but their "jurisdiction" only stretches so far. Some of the most interesting roleplay I've seen/participated in has involved characters coming from other worlds and having to either deal with, work around, or confront the system of government set in the Multiverse.

Alternately, some of the worst and most frustrating MV roleplaying I've seen has been .. involving characters coming from other worlds and having to deal with, work around, or confront the system of government set in the Multiverse.

I've always seen the MV as a hallways connecting various rooms. The rooms are your own story, your own ideas, your own canon, your own characters; it's where your friends gather and you control things. When you're out in that hall, however, all bets are off. That isn't to say you can pull things out of your ass, but you accept and understand a certain amount of handicap.

For instance, my character Liesha Kennicot is a Special Agent in the United States government, from her Earth. She's aware that there are other Earths, and that she doesn't had any control when in the MV. That's fine. However, when someone else walks up to her and starts trying to give her orders claiming that their faction has taken over mine without a single bit of IC content, that's when things start to go awry.

Reading back over the original post, it seems that the Multiverse has as much substance as you give it. It's a sandbox location where you can freely interact with new characters that you might not get a chance to. For a while, I used the MV as a way to try and test out ideas with people before making a roleplay out of it. You get your circles of friends (as Patch mentioned, his crew of eight) and you go at it. Sometimes you meet in the middle, and sometimes you don't.

And at the risk of ranting, that is all I have to say about that.
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ViceVersus
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Re: The Multiverse: Where Do We Go?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby beenut on Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:48 pm

ummmm my page freezes when i go to places. is that ok?
flout like a butterfly
sting like a bee
i cant spell
and i like to rp

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d
l(^v^)I copy this/these smiley(s) into your sig and add another smiley. add a generation. test generation 1
please check my egg

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