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The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Circ on Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:29 pm

Logic is not subjective. At dictionary.com, none of the definitions of logic say anything about it being left up to somebody's personal interpretation, subjective superstition, etceteras.

No, that is not what Jii's method is. His method is setting up a spatially limited perimeter, changing all the "coding" within it to reference another universe, then instantaneously and magically causing everything within that perimeter to manifest in that other universe. There is nothing about traveling through dimensions, or any of the ideas you are introducing, mentioned in his metaphysics.

How can you argue in support of his method when you
a.) Don't seem to know what logic is,
b.) and don't seem to know what Jii's method is?
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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Donovan Richter on Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:28 pm

I figure its not fair to everyone else to just delete the post that made you respond the way you did so I'll at least give them something to go on.
------------
1) I don't know what logic is. Oh but wait... wasn't my entire post one big satire of "logic." Everytime you bring out some dictionary definition you really sound like you’re just playing semantics Sure, paint me as a moron to your friends or whatever for saying so but I just gave plenty of reasons for why the joint authors/actors of RP coming together have entirely separate notions of what is and is not logical. I'm not going by a dictionary when I made that argument, I was getting at a vastly larger principle than just a simple definition. I can’t just re-explain, it in a different light either. So if I get some more questions about it, that’s fine, but if its not understood then that’s the end of that conversation.

2) Yes, Jii's method is more based in his own philosophy than my method while your method seems different still. But perhaps I'm too cryptic. But I’m pretty sure that I said that I was not detailing my own method in order to support Jii's method. I also remember explicitly stating that my method was in favor of Jii's because it shows dimensional travel as not ending the lives of the travellers. I also remember explicitly stating that there is a synchronizing of the two which caused them to seem as though I might be supporting his method, even though all three methods are separate systems. Each bound to its own logic, something that, in OOC Hell, is subjective.

Perhaps you mean to reference the one line I posted where I told you that Jii's method transfers him to different universes, which I renamed dimensional pathways for the sake of our own, personal discussion and all that? I was trying to bring the talk out of semantics, which honestly is all that I've seen played. I renamed them for you, renamed them to a name which you would be more accepting of, to a name that I tried to illustrate earlier.
----------------
Honestly, I think I'm out. I had already said that I am not arguing in support of Jii's method or whatever, and that that particular argument ended a long, long time ago. It seems like since having talked to people about it and going back over my own posts, everyond else understood it. I don’t think I’m too between the lines, but perhaps I’ve just gotten used to writing college papers where people are actively looking for your thesis and such when they read what you write.

While I think this whole thing is nothing more than a lack of attention that’s been paid to my post, I guess you said yourself that you’re not big on going between the lines and looking for any sort of meaning that undercuts a person‘s argument. So that’s that. I’m still not thrilled about sticking around since I see this as meaningless and futile. I suppose if anyone should ever want to my response to anything, which I doubt, I could at least answer
Last edited by Donovan Richter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Circ on Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:12 pm

I never claimed to have tact, but don't take what I said as a personal insult. It certainly has nothing to do with me trying to look cool. I was just offended by you saying that logic is subjective when I believe very firmly that logic is not subjective, and there are definitions to support this.

You came across as though you were trying to explain what Jii was doing and offering third-party explanations for how he did it. If you made any claim otherwise, I must've missed it, as I certainly don't recall seeing anything obvious along those lines. Then again, everything you write seems to require people to read between the lines, and I just don't go for that. I didn't even realize you were making a huge mockery of the discussion with your "satire" of logic.

The being overwhelmed by smilies thing was a joke, by-the-way. It doesn't seem to impact your ability as a communicator.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Donovan Richter on Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:50 pm

I never claimed to have tact, but don't take what I said as a personal insult.

Okie dokie =^_^=

*Sits for awhile thinking about just how in between the lines he was...* Hmm, I suppose its been awhile since I've talked to people online, who I don't already know, maybe I've just gotten used to people being able to read my tone and talking in person... I'm also wondering about the 'explaining Jii's technology for him.' I had reread to posts to see if there was anything that might've sounded like that too but...

No, I really can't see how the points were missed or confused.=*_*= I saw my posts as focusing so much on different things that I figured you'd have a problem with my backing of Jii's rules about explanation, or perhaps the notion of equality. I never thought that I was trying to reanimate a dead argument or that my talk of what is logical to one person not being logical to another...Heck, I thought you all would like hearing me say that, since it made it sound like you had a CK'er on your side who agrees that RP is fantasy and would be therefor cut off from reality?

Either way, I still see continuing this as being pointless though. =*_*= I still think that definitions of that word are irrelevant here and in this context, but if you've already heard the stuff from earlier, then saying anything more is useless as we simply disagree. Regardless, I guess that really is all. I am far more pessimistic about the future prospects of this place than I was one day before, but maybe I'll... post or watch whatever's going on. Oh well, take care =^_^=

-EDIT- Hmm, I've been thinking and talking it over with Jii, and I suppose logic does apply to RP world in some kind of objective sense. I mean, there are things that I know and things others know, when it comes to physics, that if we can prove would really be the case in whatever scenario, that gets put into the IC world. I suppose that is the whole reason why people argue, because they're trying to use logic to deal with what the other person knows and what they know. Logic then becomes the tacit rules for reconciling the vast differences between what is "Logical to one player" and "Logical to another." Since that train of thought focuses more on worldly knowledge, physics, biology, etc than it does the rules of logic that govern argument. So yep, we're good =^_^=

I must have never bothered to get much into that sort of thing since I mostly deal with magic and just kinda let all the differences slide. While I will always see the RP laws of physics being subject to distortion, chaos and irrationality, I guess the striving towards rationallity could be considered a form of logic. Ah, in somewhat of an abstraction that fits what you said in the post after mine. Alright, we're on the same page. =^_^= Take care.
Last edited by Donovan Richter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Circ on Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:55 am

(Already mentioned in my PM to Donovan, but is worth repeating).

Just so everyone is clear on what I mean when I discuss logic, I mean "the science ... governing correct or reliable inference." Which is to say, given a bunch of information, I can use logic to detect any conflicts in that information, whatever it may be. It can be technology, magic, the latest diet pills, or whatnot. Logic can apply to anything, just as A = B, B = C, therefore A = C applies to anything, when A, B, and C are set as variables to the applicable data.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Reno on Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:02 pm

Math is for smarts, science is for farts.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ryand-Smith on Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:47 am

That post may have been the lowest content post I have read in the last six months. I may be inanne, but .... 0 content.... I think I demand my .05 seconds back. On topic, One, isn't that a bit overpowered, using the drones as a Newtype style psyic amplifer to instakill (TM) all the units? I mean, hell I like random NPC destruction as much as the next. Just a minor curiosity is all.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rize on Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:35 pm

Don't know what Newtype is, but I didn't instakill anything. If you can get out of it, then wonderful, but frankly ICly they'd be getting tired of this little handful of buggers still attacking when everyone else retreated already. It's no more overpowered than if I had taken a set of cables and hooked them to each corner of your mech and then pulled in every direction, really.


Besides, you broke space-time.
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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Reno on Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:38 pm

Oooh, zinger!

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Alucroas on Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:47 pm

HEY HEY HEY!

Don't make me whip a sledgehammer into some poor saps balls here, and possibly break my foot off in an ass or two.

I believe my prosthetics will tell you that I'm not joking when I say that.
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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Arrogance on Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:43 pm

So, is jii still fighting in the war, or should I just move on and start helping ryand out, if i'm just sitting here waiting for someone that's not gonna reply i'll make a closed post and move on.
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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rize on Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:39 am

Arrogance = Slayer?

He is, not sure what's taking him. Lemme go prod him.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Jii on Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:50 pm

Like I said, been waiting on the people inside the Sparta to post to board the dropships first. But since I haven't seen Rensu online for a while now, I'll just speed things along myself. You can expect the post either sometime today or tomorrow.
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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rize on Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:34 pm

Ryand, that was a greatly improved post. Good on ya, man.

It'll be monday before I can put up a post of my own, as there's not enough time left before I head out of here. Basically I'll be providing some cover for the descending Imperial drop ships, protecting the Black Angel from the fall out of the Granzon's destruction, and refocusing my attention to the Xelas. More or less, anyways.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Alucroas on Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:15 am

Just thought I'd say that post had auto-connect written all over it...

Seriously, dude, that's way too much overkill.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Arrogance on Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:15 pm

Jii, Rize, I'll try to get my post up soon but i've got a lot of work to do on a site that I represent. So my posts probably wont be as prompt as they have been.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rize on Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:57 pm

No problemo man, take yer time.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Rize on Thu May 01, 2008 2:50 pm

Saladin, interesting post. As much as I dislike bringing characters from books and such into RP (I'm not a big fan of fanfiction junk, as you can probably tell from this) it was interesting nonetheless. However, I would like to say this, and I suppose it goes for everyone involved. I'd reccomend against using the word 'never' and its companions in RP, like "nothing could possibly break the shield" and "noone would ever be able to see him" and etc., etc., etc. Definitives like that are dangerous in RP and tend to cause disputes. Cause while you can sit there and say that "only one who has channeled saidar or saidin" can possibly see or detect its use, I can name dozens of characters from different places I RP in that could do it, no matter what you or Robert Jordan say. Anything involving magic is especially dangerous to utilize ultimate statements on, because as my professor says "There's always someone out there who's bigger, stronger, and faster than you are." In RP that statement should take on monumental meaning, particularly when we start mixing boards like we are now.

Just sayin.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Reno on Thu May 01, 2008 7:29 pm

Rize speaks the, errh, ah, truth.

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Re: The Trantor Fleet Engagement (CK Incursion, Battle #1)

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Remæus on Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 am

There's ah... a lot of two-dimensional characters in the battles right now. They're all very uninteresting, and purely focused on being the biggest, baddest, ass-kicking character in online roleplay. Where's the dialogue? The story? What motivation does everyone's character have for being involved here?

Let's work on making this interesting, and stop focusing on out-pwning the opposing side. I haven't seen but a coupe posts that I'd want to come back and read later - it's all focused on combat. Write something memorable, something real, and something that will be interesting and fun to read for years to come.
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