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It's time for a stand!

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It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Sick Puppy on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:28 pm

As a 20 year old living in the UK i have thought many a time about the governments approach to basic human rights, and how often laws and legislation cross the boundaries. I dont have vast political knowledge but through the little i know and the small amount of research i've done i must say im shocked how far the government encroaches on our rights and make us believe that these implications are normal.

In my opinion we are brought up in a society where we are expected to believe in a particular way which is shaped by the influences we are exposed to by our families, friends, teachers and above all the media. Our society and way of life is built upon expectations that are the result of higer influences such as the government and are easily tainted from the truth.

A prime example of this is 'the perfect body' an expectation placed upon ourselves to look like the models presented to us in newspapers, television, magazines, advertisements etc etc. Slim males with a muscular body, a six pack and a face carved by an angel. For women a slim body, huge breasts, etc etc. These are just generalisations and i understand that not everyone may strive to be as such, but were a society haunted by our imperfections when the truth is were all equal and were all perfect, just our fears of being rejected by society push us into believeing that this is correct.

The majority of the population strive to achieve vast material possessions through the form of money and this is seen as normal. The truth is money is just paper and ink and is only worth something if the 'seller' believes that paper and ink, or figures on a screen, will provide themselves with something of equal value. So what would happen if everyone stood up and said i no longer accept money as a trade for my services as (for example) a bricklayer, or as a trade for my product? Thats right, money becomes worthless.

Money is therefore power? Well todays society seems to believe so, only because this is what we experience in our capitalist society and therefore working for society is the only way to live comfortably. According to our human rights we have the right to practice all aspects of our own beliefs and religions, as well as the right to an adequate standard of living. So what if i decide i dont want to live in a capitalist society? does that mean my human rights go out the window too?

I believe that if everybody realised the true amount of 'freedom' our society provides as long as we follow the governments rules and restrictions there actually is next to none, and therefore alot of questions would be posed and maybe more people like myself would stand up and say 'Actually i've had enough.'

WE ARE ALL EQUAL, we all have the right to social security and we all have the right to express and act upon our beliefs. So i ask the question, Do you truely believe in a society, that is clearly unequal? that is forcing us into labour? and that is forcing a fair number of our population into homelessness and poverty and saying that it is not breaching human rights?

I hope that i have spurred some thoughts and doubts in the justification of what our society stands for and would love to hear more opinions.

Aaron Wymer

Its time to make a stand, Would appreciate any support on my facebook page thank you.
http://www.facebook.com/BringForthTheTruth
unsure where to begin? looking for a role in an active setting?
We would love to hear from you :)

part-something-bigger-t98502.html#p2113717

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:35 am

Like the passion pal and I do think our culture is a little messed up. I don’t necessarily think it’s an extreme human rights issue but I agree there is room for improvement.

The example of “the ideal body” is a good one and topical.

Have you seen that story about the Girl who got abreast enhancement on the NHS?

Sorry the link is to the Hate mail but of course they are leading the charge.

The story then went viral and if you check out facebook there are many many groups dedicated to lambasting the girl and her appearance. Which was the thing she wanted to avoid in the first place.
She didn’t do anything illegal and it could be argued she’s a victim of the “Perfect body” culture.
I think anyone who gets unnecessary surgery is a little mental. Then this leads to the question was her surgery necessary?

As for the money thing I understand the sentiment but its part of life and unfortunately it’s how the world works. I know it’s a comedy thing but the idea is the same.

As for all being equal unfortunately we are not. We live in a first world country and even the poorest people here live in relative luxury compared to most of the third world. I agree everybody should be viewed as equal in terms of rights and liberties but the fact is some people are smarter than others, or stronger, or more charismatic. Some of us had great nurturing parents while others didn’t. All this impacts on the opportunities open to someone.

Like I said in terms of human dignity we are all equal. When it comes to life though sadly we are not.

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Colonel_Masters on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:23 am

I applaud your understanding of the cultural errors in our society and understand your frustrations. I am younger then you but maybe i can share my own thoughts and aid you in your own struggle in such a limited way.

In my experience limited as it is the best weapon against the masters of the systems is knowledge. Those who live the system and essentially are the system have no wish of thinking outside it and therefor complete knowledge of that system is the first step to victory. "Know thy enemy - the art of war"

My struggle is well.. was the students revolution in the education system. over the past year I have gained enough confidence to question the system and its users to the point i have come to the understanding that the education system is complete trash based on grades rather then learning.

Students where being oppressed by the thought of their future by a system which claimed to hold that future for them and would grant them the future if they obeyed. And yet the system teaches nothing but technicalities while the humanities suffer and are crushed into obscurity.

I am of the thought that the education systems creed is not as it claims "no one can change the past but everyone can make a better tomorrow" (meaning you can improve your grades) but that of "We do not want any individual's in our society, we want ignorant and obedient consumers"

The education system can claim the students have representatives in the students council but as a former member i saw myself as a collaborator for the system as there was no possibility of making a difference inside this representative organization who's resources are utterly controlled by the system.

That cultural error you spoke of exists all to evidently in the system and the out casting of those who think differently is a dire problem.

And yet the students have complete and total power over the system as without them there can be no systems, if the students united behind that cause the system would have to bow to the students demands or face destruction. I have tried to make people see this in small ways but there was no result and the teachers almost suspended me from school just because of what i wrote on facebook (and some student informed them)

The masses are comfortable in the system and have no desire to change a thing. A system which supplies every need is hard to fight , a system such as the education system which promises the future is a behemoth.

Unfortunately it is only in times of need when revolution occurs but those who use this period for their revolution exploit the masses just like the system does and therefor are in the grave risk of simply becoming a system.

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Aniihya on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:41 pm

Ah another person who values civil liberties. I value the freedom of speech, of belief, of sexual orientation, of being able to f-up you own body, of political orientation etc. I do not care if people do not like what others say, people should have the right to say what they want without fearing violence or persecution. What about tobacco and marijuana? It is also a persons right to consume these. People today are so egotistical and would limit the freedom of others to feel comfortable or be secure of something that is inevitable. In my opinion, a large portion of the population is made up of superficial crybabys.
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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Lifecharacter on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:56 pm

I'm speaking as an American so if it's different wherever you are (was it Germany?), sorry.
Aniihya wrote:Ah another person who values civil liberties. I value the freedom of speech, of belief, of sexual orientation, of being able to f-up you own body, of political orientation etc.

We value, and have, freedom of speech, belief, and sexual orientation. And, unless illegal substances are involved, you have the right to hack off your limbs, stab your eyes, and commit suicide all you want. The reason illegal substance are illegal, is because, other than governments trying to keep its people healthy and not addicted to drugs, people on drugs are incredibly capable of harming others while on drugs and are more likely to do so because of the drugs.

Aniihya wrote:I do not care if people do not like what others say, people should have the right to say what they want without fearing violence or persecution.

Violence and legal/governmental persecution is illegal, but if you want the right to say whatever you want, other people have the right to say whatever they want, which includes the right to say whatever they want to say about what you say. The right to free speech does not mean that you have the right to not be criticized for what you say.

Aniihya wrote:What about tobacco and marijuana? It is also a persons right to consume these.

Though tobacco is already legal so long as you're old enough, do you have an actual reason why it is a person's right to consume these?

Aniihya wrote:People today are so egotistical and would limit the freedom of others to feel comfortable or be secure of something that is inevitable.

The only limiting of freedom that you've pointed out are the limits on what drugs you're allowed to take.

Aniihya wrote:In my opinion, a large portion of the population is made up of superficial crybabys.

Are the people crying about how they're not allowed to do drugs included in that?

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:53 am

I’d have no problem with people doing drugs, eating too much or drinking too much if it caused no impact on society. Blaze up and have a drink but accept the consequences of your actions. If you slam burgers all day don’t come to the NHS when your heart explodes all over everything. Same with smokers, if you smoke now-a-days you’re a moron and you should be on your own when your health fails. If you think Heroin is rad despite all the warnings about how addictive it is and mess up your life as a consequence do not come looking for handouts. Also it’s not a disease, Heroin is just really moreish.

Save public money for people with medical conditions outside their control.

Having the option to do something does not mean you have to do it. Additionally being part of a free society means accepting the consequences of your actions.

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Aniihya on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:31 pm

Lifecharacter: Do you like being an ass or did just not get my point. In some countries and cities, there are major restrictions regarding the consumption of tobacco. In some cities in the US, you literally cannot smoke anywhere because of city ordinances, not even in your own home. Now lets look at marijuana: It is illegal in most countries while it is legal in the Netherlands, Nepal and Surinam, partially legal in Canada and the US and a grey zone in many countries like mine (Germany). I personally do not like stuff as I tried it five or six years ago and it did the opposite of relaxation to me, but it is the right of every person to be able to consume it. That is freedom. If you restrict people from freedom, they will find ways to it, even if it can get harmful.

Bosch: I find it sincerely superficial to rate a persons intellect by their habits. Prejudice isn't reason. Many bright minds have smoked, even when it was known that the combustion of tobacco produces carcinogenic byproducts (of which over 90% are measured in micro- or even nanograms). Einstein like to smoke the pipe and he died in the 50s, over 20 years after the first results of carcinogenic contents in tobacco smoke. I find do not find smokers to be morons since it isnt a matter of intelligence. Saying smokers are morons or idiots is just as prejudiced as "Jews are greedy". I see such thinking as a very primitive way of thinking that has basis in ignorance or a lacking cognitive center.

By the way, it has been proven that smokers cost less money medically due to their shorter lifespan, which means smokers are NOT a burden to the national financial system. I should have the right to screw up my body as long as it satisfies me. If we outlawed tobacco to protect people from harming themselves or others, then we should outlaw anything that increases the risk of death such as skydiving, use of motorvehicles, use of rail, use of airplanes, use of grills, consumption of red meat etc. Why not ban everything then converting humanity back to a primitive species? Primitivist thinking leads to the restriction of freedom and the halt of progress?

Instead of wasting tax money on antismoking campaigns, we should be investing in cancer cures or bioengineering less carcinogenic breeds of tobacco while ensuring a good taste like Japanese tobacco companies do. But we have the people who would rather ban things outright because it seems simpler that way. The only side effects are: a drastic increase in smuggling and smuggling related crime. The war on drugs was a failure but many fail to recognize it. Portugal got rid of a lot of its crime by legalizing particular drugs and slowed its financial demise by taxing these substances adequately.

Which would you prefer? All drugs banned with sky-high crime rates, drug cartels, murder, corruption like in Mexico. Or would you prefer particular drugs legalized (such as marijuana and peyote) which are sold in state regulated shops at prices that make it hard to sell profitably on the blackmarket.

I am not limiting it to particular drugs, I just do not think all drugs should be legalized at once but rather be a step by step process going by addiction risk and if the use of a particular drug results in being too problematic because consumers cannot consume responsibly, then measurements will have to be taken (problematic as in a drastic increase in poverty related to drugs or crime rise due to people needing money for their fix).

However, I IN NO WAY PROMOTE THE USE OF DRUGS. If people are aware of the consequences and ruin their life or die, it's their problem. They can get help if they seek it or end up in jail for mugging or robbery.

Back to Lifecharacter: Violence or legal persecution might be illegal in most places, but it will be done anyways in some places claiming a "just cause". Take a look at my nation for example: Legally it seems to be more free than many other nations, even compared to many US states (not going to name which ones), but due to my nations history (fascism/nationalsocialism 70 years ago), there is a massive censorship regarding the topic and it only doesn't take place if the context is ridicule over the topic. You can end up in court for doing a "Hitler salute" in public, making racial suggestions etc. Holocaust denial, downplaying events during the 3rd reich, approval of acts against humanity can lead to a sentencing to a prison term of up to five years. That is in my opinion over the top and is a sign of how little my people can handle grotesque opinions. There are many things I find to be disgusting when spoken such as racism, prejudice or preaching but it is something you have to deal with when living in a society that allows freedom of opinion and speech.

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Bosch on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:11 am

Anni- I’m disappointed. What are you doing? Why are you calling people asses? You can disagree with someone but they deserve respect. This is meant to be a chill place where we can exchange ideas not insults, yet you persist using in offensive language and attempting to call into question the character of people who disagree with you.

Go outside take a deep breath and grab a little perspective. Why are you acting this way in the debate section of internet role-playing forum? It’s insane how into this you are. We’re just discussing issues in a jocular way. Seriously take a break and think about how you approach these things.

Of course you won’t so I’ll continue to your points.

Ok so the first few lines are about making me into some prejudiced hate monger which I'm just going skip over.

Anni hold on to your hat because this will blow you mind, smart people are dumb sometimes because they are human. Einstein was a genius in the field of theoretical physics, I don’t think he was shit hot in medicine. Your argument is nonsense.

How are they not a burden to the NHS. Smoking causes cancers, therefore smokers with cancer may have a preventable disease that they brought on themselves. This is money the health service would not have otherwise spent. Money that could spent treating diseases that the patient had no control over. Therefore smokers cost the NHS money they would not have otherwise. Your argument is nonsense.

Why can’t we invest in both anti smoking campaigns and cancer research? Again you present these binary choices.

No we shouldn’t ban everything we need to assess the risk versus benefit. Smoking is straight up bad for you and kills hundreds of thousands every year. The highest number of skydiving deaths in a year was 71. http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/ . Those who skydive and live tend to be of a higher fitness level than those who do not. Assess the risk versus the benefits. Again your arguement is nonsense.

I support the legalisation of drugs. Pretty much for the reasons you out lined above. The profits of drugs support crime and the illegal drug trade is incredibly violent. At least if it’s legalised governments can oversee what goes into the drugs. I used to do a little weed in my teens but grew up. These days I think taking drugs is stupid. Again you are arguing against who you imagine me to be and what you wish I’d said. Stick to the points you’ll get further.

I really hope this has cleared up why your arguments are nonsense and why the imaginary picture you have of me is wrong.

As for Lifecharacter I suggest you apologise for the petty name calling, way I see it he’s totally within his rights to complain about this.

Anni stick to facts and remove your ego from your thought process.

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Re: It's time for a stand!

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Aniihya on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:11 pm

Bosch: I do not take lectures about respect from anyone who does argumentae ad hominem themselves. Respect is earned and not a given. An inoffensive society would limit free speech because they do not like what others say, so you will have to deal with comments like that. By the way, I kept it rather in a civil manner as this discussion has not turned into a flame war.

I am this way, because it affects major aspects of my life. I am skeptical of almost everything which allows me to conclude with more certainty which options have more benefit in my moral perspective.

A smoker lives on average less than non-smokers. It is a fact. Your binarian way of thought makes you think that if someone doesnt get cancer, it costs the health system less. It is not exactly true because you havent considered that people can get other disease of which the chronic ones cost the most. The older the people get, the more they tend to get sick and THAT is what costs the NHS a lot. It is extremely biased to think that smokers cost the NHS more than non-smokers without considering how much old people or otherwise severely ill people cost the NHS.

By the way, that is hundreds of thousands worldwide and these numbers get higher the worse the system is such as lung cancer deaths are ten times as high in the US compared to Germany at four times the population and half the percentage of smokers. That is because the health system in the US is not exactly the best. And I do not care if the skydiving deaths total 71, it is still a risk and we should rather let people risk their own lives than ban the activity. If the activity endangers other lives then we should work towards improving it so that it doesn't.

About the drugs: No problem with your opinion about that and even if I did, it is your opinion.

And my arguments aren't nonsense, they are a result of speculation.

And how can YOU tell fact from lie when you go out onto the internet an see five different opinions which are stated to be fact as well as numbers that do not match each individual other source. Follow the sources of the sources of the sources... until you find the premier sources THEN DO NOT nitpick your facts out of that source, because many and I mean many authors of texts that state to be fact pick single statements out of a text without understanding the context and then throwing in personal bias to make a fraudulent article that every naive person would believe and end up talking nonsense without knowing it. I did such research before and I know how bad these things can get.

Anni hold on to your hat because this will blow you mind, smart people are dumb sometimes because they are human. Einstein was a genius in the field of theoretical physics, I don’t think he was shit hot in medicine. Your argument is nonsense.


if you smoke now-a-days you’re a moron


remove your ego from your thought process.


You are a hypocrite and do not recognize that you put ego into your arguments too (the amount of it I used is not for you to decide but rather from an outside observer). Thus I have come to the conclusion that this whole debate is pointless, no matter which side. I will be leaving this thread.

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