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Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

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Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:50 pm

Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Ylanne S.

November 2009


In the year 2004, I created a character by name of Treali Storm. The name ‘Treali’ was not my own creation, but rather that of a Neopets user with the handle ridergirl333 who wrote a short fiction series appearing in the Neopian Times, the Neopets newspaper and literary magazine. I honestly do not recall where the surname ‘Storm’ was derived. Over the next four years, the character called Treali Storm became something of a ‘pet’ of mine, having many characteristics and attributes commonly considered to be signs of a Mary Sue.

In this case study, I will attempt to describe some of the factors that made Treali Storm a Mary Sue, why I made those choices, and why I finally decided I could no longer retain the character as she was – and what I did to transform my quintessential Mary Sue into a well-developed, unique, and dynamic character whose few Mary Sue vestiges are by far outweighed by the realism, or believability, factors.

A disclaimer: Not all of the characteristics or attributes defined herein can be considered to be necessary for a Mary Sue character, nor should their presence in one of your characters be construed to determine that that character of necessity must be a Mary Sue. Many of the factors can be found in very well-developed characters who are most certainly not Mary Sues. It is merely that OFTEN such characteristics are found in Mary Sue characters, and that many Mary Sue characters share many of these traits.

It is my hope that this analysis of one of my own characters (who, as you will find by the end of this case study, still exists, but in a far different form) will serve to assist and aid roleplayers and writers in creating well-developed, dynamic characters without creating Mary Sue characters. For an understanding of what a Mary Sue is, I refer the uninitiated to the Wikipedia article.

Without further ado, I present my five part case study report on Treali Storm.




Part One: The Name


ImageOne of the many possible telltale characteristics of a Mary Sue is a name which may have any of the following characteristics, typically with at least two of them in combination (Although such a name should not be construed to automatically denote a character as a Mary Sue, but may be considered a sign of one, as many Mary Sues often have names with such characteristics):

1.) It is a common name spelled differently to make it more ‘unique’. For instance, “Raychelle” instead of “Rachel”, or “Raivynne” instead of “Raven”, etc.

2.) It has unnecessary punctuation, such as “M’chelle”.

3.) It is in fact more than one name with a hyphen to separate them: “Layla-Renee”.

4.) It is a noun, verb, or other word not normally used as a name, or with an alternate spelling as above.

5.) It is a name chosen specifically for its meaning: “Damien” means ‘dark’; “Deirdre” means ‘woman of sorrows’.

6.) It is the writer’s name, middle name, or online identity – whether the writer’s name is used as the character’s first, middle, or last name, or spelled differently, or ‘translated’ (for instance, “Mary” to “Miriam” or “Maria” or “Marie”).

7.) The character has more than one middle, first, or last name without any particular reason or logic. For instance, “Alexandra Raven Felicity Hope Bonhomme-Javier”.

8.) It is a name which is out of place considering the character’s nationality, place of residence, social status, gender, or language spoken, OR with the character’s universe altogether (particularly applicable in non-realistic story settings). For instance, a non-Japanese character with a Japanese name, or a medieval girl with a masculine name, etc.

In this case, the character Treali Storm had a name which was out of place considering her nationality, used a noun or verb not normally used as a name, and was my internet handle from 2004-2006. The character also had more than one middle name without any particular reason – in this case, she was born with one name and used another one throughout the rest of her life (discussed in another section of this case study report), and the original name was “Treali Ka’iimamao Ylanne Abdullah-Zhang”, which also used my name as part of her name (in another way!).

The name “Treali” is a constructed name, which is generally acceptable for characters in fantasy or science fiction settings. Her setting was neither. Furthermore, her nationality – deriving from Asia and the Middle East – would dictate a region-specific name. “Treali”, even as a constructed name, bears no linguistic or phonetic semblance to any names from Asia or the Middle East.

Treali Storm was, as mentioned, my own internet handle for a period of three years – I consistently used trealistorm or Treali Storm or a number of variants as my username virtually everywhere I went. Even here, my original username was Treali Storm, until two months ago, when I realized I could change it. The ‘original’ name too has my own name as an additional middle name for no reason, and Ka’iimamao is a Hawaiian name that I had chosen because of its meaning. (Go look it up yourself if you care that much. :) )

I will have the reader know, however, that at the time I created and used the character (through 2007), I did not consider that the name was a problem or even a major discrepancy – I have always thoroughly researched the law, procedure and decorum, and other minute details relating to the ‘realistic’ aspect of my work, which is primarily crime fiction, so that, while my characters and the incidents in which they are involved are fictitious, the setting and other proceedings are all as realistic as possible.

On a related note, a number of my characters have or had (since many underwent name changes in the past year or two) names falling under one or more of the above listed categories: Talia Solis, Dianna Somnium, Kaila Sol, Sabre, and Dono Xie, for example.




Part Two: Tragic History


Another oft-identified characteristic of the Mary Sue is a particularly tragic history or past, or a character that is full of angst, particularly if this tragic past has some direct bearing significance upon the character in the story, whether by affecting or influencing those around him or her, or being a cause for the character’s own actions or behavior, such as justifying a quest for vengeance, or a bloodthirstiness or otherwise unacceptable behavior excused by the character’s past.

This characteristic’s presence in a Mary Sue character will often lead the character to be dubbed the “Angsty Sue” subtype of the Mary Sue character.

Let us now consider the subject of this case study report. Treali Storm’s parents, in my original drafts, were wealthy heirs who fell in love by chance and happened to sympathize with the oppressed in Red China, resulting in their untimely deaths at the hand of Mao Tsetung shortly after Treali’s birth. Treali was raised by her aunt in extreme poverty in another country.

The typical characteristics of the Angsty Sue’s past present in our case study are being raised by a person other than the character’s parents, being raised in extreme poverty, and having had more than one loved one (family, close friend, romantic interest, etc.) die an unfortunate and undeserved (i.e. tragic) death. Other possible characteristics are having been tortured, abused, molested or raped, raised by a terrible type of person (the evil stepmother stereotype, though not necessarily restricted to a ‘stepmother’), the only person of a particular race or species or other group (especially a despised one), and having had loved ones die as a consequence of his or her own existence or other actions.




Part Three: Author’s Pet


ImagePerhaps most importantly of all prior considerations, the character Treali Storm was very much an author’s pet. At the peak of what I now refer to as “the Treali Storm era” of my life, almost all of my major literary works focused around this character, and nearly all of the rest managed to mention her, or make some subtle allusion to her in some way or another.

I loved this character and spent hours daydreaming that I was her – even though I knew I would never want to be in her position (you know, her being a murderer and all, when I’m a deontologist pacifist). I drew her all the time, the picture to the right having been drawn in 2007 (I can’t read the month, and I’m too lazy to dig out the original portrait from the dozens of boxes and folders in which I keep old and current artwork). If I was bored, or even just not paying attention to what my hands were doing, I would begin to sketch the face of Treali Storm. It got to the point where my parents and my friends and my neighbors and pretty much everyone I knew had heard of Treali Storm, even those people who had not the least interest in my writing.

This too is characteristic of the Mary Sue – a Mary Sue is very often an author’s pet, a character the author dreams about, idolizes, imagines him or herself to be, or is an idealized self-insertion. The author of a Mary Sue is almost in love with his or her character. There are a very few examples of Mary Sues (which, by the way, are almost always made unintentionally) where this is not the case.

The drawing to the right --> was drawn in 2007, and at the time I was extremely proud of it. I was so often tempted to write in purple prose (sometimes characteristics of a Mary Sue) about Treali Storm, and I felt that this drawing exemplified all of the beautiful 'prose' I was writing about her, and that it was emotional, and very realistic. . . HA. Not so. It's not that great. It's just here to illustrate this segment of my report.




Part Four: Non-Applicable Mary Sue Characteristics


Nevertheless, it would be hard to find or create a character which embodies nearly all characteristics considered typical or attributive of a Mary Sue character. Here, I shall proceed to discuss commonly construed attributes of the Mary Sue which are not applicable to our case study, Treali Storm.

With reference to our particular case study, Treali Storm was not the most talented or brilliant or adept in any field or art, nor was she recognized for any skill she did have (she had no valuable or interesting skills). As pertains to a Mary Sue, the Mary Sue is typically the most talented or brilliant or adept, or simply the best, in at least one (but sometimes several) fields, skills, or arts. For example, a Mary Sue might be the best swordsman in the world, or the smartest chemist. Typically, the Mary Sue is also well-known for his or her skill, and this causes other characters to envy him or her.

Neither was she particularly attractive, having relationships with any or all of my other characters, or desired romantically or sexually by the others. A Mary Sue often (but not always) is very physically attractive – and usually hated by many for this, and loved by even more; he or she may have a psychologically rooted inability to form a solid or steady romantic relationship, thereby having many flings with all sorts of romantically or sexually desirable others, and of course, falling in requited love with another character whom the author often writes as his or her own dream love interest.

Furthermore, Treali Storm shared only a few of my personal philosophical or political beliefs. She was not religious or even particularly spiritual, and I am very much a believer in a God. She was apathetic to the vast majority of political issues or controversy, whereas I am extremely involved politically and very active in that arena (I even write a politics/philosophy blog, which I should update very soon!). The Mary Sue typically shares most or all of the author’s beliefs in any or all of these areas, and often will prove them to be true, especially to characters who disagree with them.

Almost never will the Mary Sue character die (the god-modding Sue subtype is common among fighting roleplayers). If he or she does die, it is usually for the sake of someone loved, for some greater cause (and therefore a noble reason to die, as a martyr, so to speak), and oftentimes, the Mary Sue is immortalized (literally, or metaphorically), sometimes being brought back to life. This does not happen to Treali Storm. Originally, her death did involve her lover, but not in the typical Sue fashion. After reconstruction, it was much more realistic.

Lastly, while I often daydreamed about being the character or being in her position in various situations, I did not fantasize about being Treali Storm. She did not mete out justice to other characters inserted in the place of persons whom I despise (there are none), nor did she share any of my interests or passions (or particular skill or ability in any of them); there was never much to fantasize about. Many Mary Sue authors will fantasize quite often about being their character, especially for the reasons listed in this paragraph. This is, of course, not always the case, but often may be.




Part Five: Recognition of Mary Sue Characteristics and Reconstruction


It is often an insurmountable challenge – if not entirely impossible – to reverse the slippery slope of a Mary Sue character; however, it can be done, and I believe it has been accomplished with finesse with the subject of this case study. This section will trace the steps I took to de-Sueify the character Treali Storm, addressing each of the aforementioned sections and their respective amendments and reconstruction in turn.

The Name


Since 2007, I began to recognize that at a minimum, the name Treali Storm was wholly out of place for realistic and modern settings (which is the setting that the character in question exists in), and started to entertain the idea of changing the name, a change to which I was at first extremely resistant.

In November 2008, I began to consider using the name Tirahali Yasfah – Tirahali was a transliteration of sorts of the name Treali (pronounced tree-AL-lee), and Yasfah is an alternate spelling of Asfah, the common transliteration of the Arabic for Storm. By December 2008, I had compiled a list of names as possibilities for the final and permanent name change (the first step in de-Sueifying the character), most of them phonetically based on the original name.

My final choice was Tahira Ali – firstly, the name is respective of the character’s national origin; secondly, when said quickly, it resonates with the original name, a throwback I much appreciate and enjoy in quiet moments of solitude, when this writer’s mind is off in la la land. It is also a much less ‘flowery’ or ‘ostentatious’ name, and in fact, if the reader Google searches Tahira Ali, he will find that there are several people with the name; one is a city leader in America and another is a Pacific Islander singer.

I also, for some reason I am not exactly certain, decided to keep the notion that Tahira Ali is not the character’s original name, and settled on Elan Tahera Almontaser as the original name. Here, I will concede that Elan is the typically accepted spelling of my own name; Ylanne being a deviant in and of itself by using a ‘Y’ and the French ‘nne’ type ending. Nevertheless, I did that because I happen to like my name – not because I view the character as a self-insertion or an alternate (emotional) version of myself – and it falls into the pattern of her brother’s name, David Basam Almontaser, which is a Hebrew forename and Arabic middle name.

Tragic History

Tahira Ali’s history is somewhat less tragic and more realistic than that originally written. She was born to a philosophy professor (her mother) and an ethnic minority journalist (her father) who met because of similar dissenting political views, and were forced to seek asylum in America because of upheaval in Red China (the cultural revolution hadn’t happened in the forties). This was around the time Tahira’s brother was graduating from a private high school in America. Tahira Ali was raised by her aunt, her father’s sister, not exactly in poverty, but in the same financial circumstances as her neighbors.

When she does die, as referenced above in section four, Tahira Ali is executed for crimes she did indeed commit (she was a murderer, and on the FBI Ten Most Wanted, a fact of which she is unaware until her arrest), and without any sort of Sue-ish reason. There is no dying for the sake of her lover or a greater cause. She is tried and convicted, sent to prison, and executed. Believable. Realistic. Not romanticized.

It is considerably less ‘angsty’ than perhaps it was before, the history perhaps much more readily accessible and believable, without as much a suspension of disbelief as might have been previously. This took some time to conceive, but was completed in the Spring of this year as the ‘canon’ history of this character.

Author’s Pet

Yes, I still draw Tahira Ali all the time – but to be fair, I draw all of my characters all the time, as can be seen on the drawings page of my writer’s website (which reminds me I have another 30 or so drawings to scan into the computer and upload to share with all of you lovely guests!). And yes, I still imagine that I am her from time to time (but to be fair, this happens with the vast majority of my characters), but I definitely don’t see myself in her shoes, or fantasize (and I never really did fantasize, per se).

I have gotten over the stage of trying to include some vague reference or mention to Tahira Ali in every significant literary work of mine – that ship has sailed. I look at each literary project on its own, and if a reference to one or another fictitious individual or incident is warranted, than it is included; however, if there is no need, then no reference ought be made. I do sometimes use Tahira Ali in roleplay around this website, particularly in roleplays where I believe her character might add something to the dynamic of the cast of characters, but I do not insist on using her in every roleplay or every story I write or participate in.

This too has taken much time and effort on my part, to let go of the character I once had an obsession with – to say “You are the author, and while your characters may be your ‘children’, they are tools with which to create literary masterpieces, not the focal point of writing”, despite the fact that my own writing now and forever shall be character-driven. (But more on that another day).




Conclusion


Recently, I ran the current character of Tahira Ali (along with several other characters of mine) through various Mary Sue Litmus Test websites, and all of them come up negative on Sue characteristics, even and especially when I am harshly truthful about her attributes. With luck and skillful writing, there is no more Sue aura lingering around this or any of my other characters.

I hope this case study report has been of some use to you in analyzing your own character creations. Any and all feedback is welcomed. It may also be that there are places where my line of thinking grew tangential or is otherwise obscured. . . obfuscated somehow; nevertheless, I hope this case study report will be of some value.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please don’t hesitate to let me know. I am by no means an expert, just a writer whose work focuses primarily around character.

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne Sorrows

Sources and Quotes


Mary Sue on Wikipedia
The Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test
The Original Fiction Mary Sue Litmus Test
The Writer's Mary Sue Test
Making Light: Namarie Sue by Teresa
Encyclopedia Dramatica: Mary Sue
The Mary Sue Manual by TA Maxwell

Teresa, Making Light wrote:MARY SUE (n.): 1. A variety of story, first identified in the fan fiction community, but quickly recognized as occurring elsewhere, in which normal story values are grossly subordinated to inadequately transformed personal wish-fulfillment fantasies, often involving heroic or romantic interactions with the cast of characters of some popular entertainment. 2. A distinctive type of character appearing in these stories who represents an idealized version of the author. 3. A cluster of tendencies and characteristics commonly found in Mary Sue-type stories. 4. A body of literary theory, originally generated by the fanfic community, which has since spread to other fields (f.i., professional SF publishing) because it’s so darn useful. The act of committing Mary Sue-ism is sometimes referred to as “self-insertion.”


Encyclopedia Dramatica wrote:Telltale signs of a Mary Sue include:

* Character is written as a relation to some canon character, long lost cousin, sister, or fan-created child of said canon character(s), etc.
* Fan uses a handle giving herself the surname of some canon character she likes
* Character has same last name as canon character the fan likes, giving away a fan-created familial connection to a canon character.
* Is written as sexually attractive or attracted to some canon character.
* Eyes that change color, hair that takes more than five words to describe.
* Speshul magik powers (even in fanons or games where magic doesn’t exist).
* Gigantic angel/devil/demon/dragon wings.
* Ability to master anything with ease.
* Common names with unusual spellings (i.e. Faery, Ravyn, Jennifyr, Aeris, Elizabetteth Honey Moon)
* Names that are overused or meant to describe an appearance or object in connection with the character - Raven, Ebony, Luna, Anya, Mia or Mia Mya, Canina, Felina.
* Names with 'k's and 'y's stuck in odd places.
* Names that are a combination of the above characteristics - Sylke, Kat.
* Cute baby version of an imaginary creature for a pet (baby ancient dragon, baby griffon, baby unicorn, baby great Cthulhu, baby goatse)
* The ability to make male canon (and original) characters fall instantly in love with them. Or, failing that, just simply having the author play god to force the story to bend for them.
* Sparkles where there shouldn't be sparkles.

TL;DR: A "perfect" character that supercedes everybody in looks, personality, etc.


Encyclopedia Dramatica wrote:Because so many self-enamoured gits write Mary Sues, there are many different kinds of Sues in the world. Trying to list them all would be impossible, but here are a few of the general categories into which a Sue can fall, to help you identify a canon-obsessed fan fiction nerd by his rants about them.

Helpful!Sue

This Sue is everybody's friend, and a natural savior of the day. She heals the hero's broken leg with her expert medical prowess (because at only seventeen she already has her MD), gently coaxes the token kid's cat out of a tree with her sweet singing voice, rescues innocent goats from cruel cashmere salesmen, and gives the canon gals a friendly shoulder to cry on - before, of course, eventually stealing away their boyfriends and pets with her bubbly personality and compassionate nature. But it's not her fault that everybody loves her! She's just written that way. Our pal Helpful!Sue is usually the antithesis of Angry! or Evil!Sue. Oftentimes writers will throw in one of those too, just to give her a nemesis, who she will either a) come out looking better than, or b) change for the better with her contrived fairy godmother ways. See Sonicrocksmysocks, Disneyfan01, and Chibi-kisame.

"OMG Ron WTF R U TLKNG about I've been cutting since I was born see the scar OMGLOLZ!"

Angry!Sue

Sometimes referred to as a Bitchiwitch in the Harry Potter fandom, these Sues are typically rebellious, with some sort of angsty past, and known for wearing more black than should be humanly possible, especially Gawth! and PunkRawk! Sues. Often they are Warrior!Sues, capable of killing everything in their way in order to get revenge, or just because they can. (One of the best-known examples is The Bride, in the Kill Bill films by well-known Suethor Quentin Tarantino.) Only their "true love" can ease their angry, angsty angst, although this type typically plays hard to get, generally fangirling a rebellious or angsty male. See My Immortal.

Depressed!Sue

Depressed!Sue is filled with angst. Generally, this angst derives from some tragedy in her past (with the far-and-away winner being dead parents). She evokes the sympathy of at least one of the main characters (generally of the opposite sex) and develops a relationship based on crying about how hard it is to be an orphan. If her parents aren't dead, she's usually crying about how much they abuse her and won't buy her an iPod. She is also fond of trivialized rape and or suicide attempts as means of provoking sympathy. Depressed!Sue will generally manifest some great power once she believes in herself.

Evil!Sue

Behold, the queen of mary-sues!

An Evil!Sue is typically involved in some way with the existing villain of the fandom, whether it be as a relative, boyfriend/girlfriend, or any other relationship, but can sometimes exist by him/herself or replace the canon villain. This Sue type is characterized by the stereotypical villain behavior such as sadism, long bouts of insane cackling, and attempting to kill canon characters, usually punctuated by angst-ridden soliloquies. Another common element of the Evil!Sue is some sort of mysterious and/or abusive past, but this is often shared by the other categories of Sue. The only reason it's worth mentioning is that the sordid past is often pointed to in explaining and excusing/justifying the Evil!Sue's behavior, whereas with most other Sues a tragic past explains it all.

The patron saint of Marysues is clearly the unicorn.

Canon!Sue

Canon!Sue is a corruption of a legitimate canon character within the fandom to the point that they resemble the fanfic author itself. They may acquire new powers, undergo a makeover (including the dreaded Hot Topic punk variety), become good friends with canon characters the author loves, usurp the positions of-- or become enemies with-- canon characters the author hates, or just act completely out of character in a way that makes those familiar with the canon scream in horror. The Canon!Sue can be used as a self-insert in and of itself or in combination with an author's original character Sue.

Babies r' us!Sue

This is a common Sue. They simply hook up with one of the main character of the opposite sex and have 5d6 ugly kids. Oftentimes, this type of Sue may have more than one father or more than one boyfriend. They often get into messes trying to figure out if Draco or Harry is the father of their fugly child.

Clone!Sue

A common Sue that is almost an exact replica of a canon character, except that the gender is switched. Yet somehow the canon character completely overlooks this creepy coincidence and falls irrevocably in love with the Sue. Example: sonicshadowsilver. Clearly a female sue clone of Sonic the f***ing Hedgehog, her many fanfictions that never seem to end go on for practially 10 seasons of Epic Fail. Plenty of lulz material here, especially in her journals[[1]] Plz troll.

Furry!Sue

Perhaps the most cringe-makingly self-indulgent of the lot, Furry!Sue is a direct insert, not of the author, but of the author's fursona. Not only does Furry!Sue frequently turn up in settings where the presence of a bipedal purple wolf in a leather bikini is a trifle difficult to explain, but, furries being what they are, she has a truly horrifying tendency to morph into Raepist!Sue. Just try not to think about it.

Furry!Sue can be a subtype of Canon!Sue, in which case she is simply a furry version of a human character.

Anti-Sue

The most bearable out of all of them (or at least they would be if fanfiction writers knew how to write them correctly.) Anti-Sues are supposed to be the complete opposite of Mary-Sues, meaning that every character usually hates them, they don't hook up with anybody, hardly ever get the spotlight in the fanfic (this is rare), they're usually very ugly and weak, and have no desire to fight the bad guy, save the world, or sleep with every character. Usually Anti-Sues are created to piss off the creators of Mary-Sues. Either that or the author finally has realized that writing a Mary Sue is annoying as nails on a chalkboard. Most of the time, however, Anti-Sues are just as horrendous as their Mary Sue counterparts, made especially grating when all the other characters still love them to death.

Baby!Sue

This form of Anti-Sue is the Raepist Mary Sue minus about five or ten years. She is the angsty eight-year-old who is most likely an orphan in search for her parents, who she insists are not dead. She may be said to have a disability in order to get the other characters feeling sorry enough for her to let her get away with atrocious behavior.

She is supposed to out-talk any grownup, making them appear bumbling and stupid next to her, which instead makes her annoying as f***.

Writers of the Baby and Raepist Mary Sues typically end up with the writers of other Sue types mad at them, leading to many stupid berating insults at both the Suethor and her characters. Protip: when your characters suck so hard even other Suethors put you in your place, become an hero.

Tell-tale signs that Baby Sue is growing into a Raepist Sue are the seduction or attempt to seduce a character, and further distortion of main characters to the point that it's sickening even to other Suethors– weakening them, dumbing them down to make them give in to Baby Marie or just to give her the most action and dialog.

Raepist!Sue

The Raepist Mary Sue resides in the writer's most carnal, self-serving mindset, with an addiction to sex, excessive luxury and power over others. This Sue is all hormones and will screw anything with legs, willing or not, and is always looking for more power to get more nookie.

Her writer is often obsessed with snogging canon characters and berates other writers for the same thing. Any good deed this Mary Sue performs is always motivated by self interest. Her life consists of self gratification, self-worship, and getting what she can out of those around her. This Sue is a home-wrecker if the established character already has a romance in a book or movie. If he doesn't, Raepist Mary seduces him anyway, along with any number of other characters. Hopping into the sack with one or more characters, even all at the same time is what this Sue is all about.

She uses her speshul magic powers to force characters not willing to do what she wants into catering to her every whim and thinking she rocks their world. She is quick to use characters' vulnerabilities against them for her own gain. Those she can't bewitch, she browbeats or guilt-trips until they give in to her. All the other characters may become jealous of one another over Raepist Mary. They all kill themselves trying to win or keep her affections; or rescue her from danger (not that she gives a fuck about them as long as she gets laid or gets rich). Everybody excuses her mistreatment of them because she looks so beautiful and/or has any combination of typical Mary Sue traits.

Where sparkling jewel-eyed, porcelain-faced, golden, flaming or raven tressed Mary Sue is too common and annoying as a result, Raepist Marie is as charming as a laxative. She is nothing short of hair tearing, tooth gnashing, stomach turning, nauseating ball of horny ready to Rape anything with legs. She is only welcome in parody writing, but all too often, she is stuck into what is supposed to be a serious non-Sue effort, marring it beyond redemption.

See Snapesnogger for more.

Gimp!Sue

Gimp!Sue has a tragic physical handicap or illness. By far the most popular are blindness and inability to speak, but Gimp!Sue has also been known to suffer from paraplegia, deafness, horrific facial scars and even hemophilia. Srsly. Although Gimp!Sue is impossibly perfect in every other way, her creator will insist that her "flaw" means she can't be a Mary Sue. Often she will "prove" this by citing her low (i.e. good) score on one of those online Mary Sue tests that subtract over 9000 Sue-points if you make your character a cripple.

Note that though Gimp!Sue's disability supposedly stops her being a Sue, it gets her the sympathy of all the good guys and doesn't make her any less attractive to the hero. It also gives her an excuse for endless emo wangst. In the worst cases the entire plot can be summed up as "ZMOG!!! I'M BLIIIIINNND!!! OH NOES!!!111!!!!" As with Depressed!Sue, Gimp!Sue's creator expects that readers will automatically love her character just because of her suffering, and may hint that failure to do so is a form of discrimination.

While Gimp!Sue is usually an original character, her male counterpart Gimp!Stu is often a Canon!Stu. He is, in that case, always a maimed version of the most hawt male in the fandom, which has led some authorities to theorize that a creepy fetish may be at work.

Ugly!Sue

Unlike the romantically afflicted Gimp!Sue, Ugly!Sue is honestly unattractive. She's overweight, has zero dress sense, her hair is stringy and her teeth are crooked. She's also totally untalented and has tons of perfectly genuine character flaws, like being selfish, tactless and whiny. Instead of saving the day, she constantly does stupid crap that actually gets her into trouble. All of this is quite refreshing for about three chapters– until it dawns on the reader, "Wait a moment. If I want to see a dumb, fat, ugly narcissistic loudmouth making a fool of herself, there's always MySpace. Why the hell am I reading this?"

That's right, authors– giving your character nothing but flaws is just as annoying as making her perfect– and it makes it even more ridiculous when the hero inevitably falls in love with her.
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MysticOnion on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:11 pm

This reminds me of my character - but it was a guy, what you'd call a Gary Stu or a Marty Stu - he was absolutely perfect in every way and had this totally magical name - out of place and you know what you'd expect a perfect character to have - Elijah Levi DeCourt Rosemont. Wow.. isn't that a typical name? I got obsessed with him and drew him and everything just like you did with yours. He also had the tragic past and was a bit angsty - in fact very very angsty and he had super magickal powers and was very real to me - though looking back on him now I just think.. omg... every literary thing I did always had a connection to him in some way! ARGH!

That was so lame.. eek..

I'm over that now.. even though I did have him for a very very long time indeed. I must have been crazy or something.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:05 pm

Note to whoever rated this post with a 1 star:

I am interested in knowing WHY you chose to rate me with only one star. I wrote this post about my own character. It's not like I was flaming anyone else's character(s), or pointing fingers at anyone, or labeling anyone a Mary Sue but my own creation - self-criticism, if you will. I can see that sometimes people can take things personally, but I specifically stated this report is an analysis of my own work and my own character, and it focuses especially on why MY character was a Mary Sue character.

Furthermore, I spent several days working on this post, and I really don't appreciate receiving a one star rating for something that I put a lot of time and effort into and was written for the sole purpose of sharing my own personal thoughts (which don't have to be yours) on my own character (not yours).

Thank you!

Ylanne

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby LawOfTheLand on Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:29 pm

Very exhaustively researched, indeed. While I usually take points away if a post takes me an arbitrary amount of time or more to read in its entirety, I still give this 5 stars for two reasons:

1) To offset the one-star bomber.
2) In a sense, it's the tale of one writer's epic struggle to recognize that a character is too perfect and embarks on an introspective journey to right that wrong.

It's sort of why I gave up on my NaNoWriMo project this year...among other things, I realized that the bar owner character in my book was dangerously close to crossing over to Sue-dom. Combat expert, falls in love with the main character, always has the perfect gadget for the situation at hand, etc. It was almost as much of a mess as I was.
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Skallagrim on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:46 pm

I also gave you five stars and I agree with QB in his analysis. Good job Ylanne, excellent growth.
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:52 pm

qbsuperstar03 wrote:Very exhaustively researched, indeed. While I usually take points away if a post takes me an arbitrary amount of time or more to read in its entirety, I still give this 5 stars for two reasons:

1) To offset the one-star bomber.
2) In a sense, it's the tale of one writer's epic struggle to recognize that a character is too perfect and embarks on an introspective journey to right that wrong.

It's sort of why I gave up on my NaNoWriMo project this year...among other things, I realized that the bar owner character in my book was dangerously close to crossing over to Sue-dom. Combat expert, falls in love with the main character, always has the perfect gadget for the situation at hand, etc. It was almost as much of a mess as I was.


Andrew! :) Thanks for the five star rating. I really appreciated it. Nevertheless, in response to your second point, I counter that the original Treali Storm was not perfect, not that particular subtype of a Mary Sue, but a Mary Sue any which way. She was more of the angsty Sue mixed with the self-insertion Sue. . . minus the perfect Sue aspects. As I mentioned, her non-Sue characteristics included no particular skills or abilities, whether intellectually or otherwise, nor did she share my passions, interests, or beliefs.

I am sorry about your NaNoWriMo project this year. . . I started mine, and have written about 600 words thus far. Yes. Six hundred. You did read that right. Me signing up for NaNoWriMo is an insipid idea - November is always my busiest month of the year, and this particular week my busiest week of the year (I'm not kidding about that); therefore, I have written precious little, and am far behind with many more pressing projects. I kind of understand how you feel . . . I have yet to introduce the protagonist, who doesn't yet have a name, gender, age, or affiliation. :) Yup. It's that far behind.

Thank you again!

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Selene Hime on Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:57 pm

You definitely did a good job on the Mary-Sue description, Ylanne. I myself gave your post a 5-star rating, and am not sure why someone would rate it only one. You were extremely thorough and made several good points, as well as references. And, if it is alright with you, I'd like to reference your article in the "Mary-Sue" section of my 'guide', XD.
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Sonata on Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:58 am

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby MysticOnion on Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:51 am

Oh I hope nobody thinks I gave the one star - I gave it a five. It was very well written.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby zewei on Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:39 pm

Laughs* a fun read.

I'm in the ~sue. status now with my character Bowpurity. Depending on the characters he's facing/fighting with, i change his powers to accord to them, making him either weaker or stronger. Still, my character's background is pretty plain, obtaining sue points because of his magic bow (lol).

I'm not sure if the character naming himself is a ~sue state though. He's an archer, who just learn the priest ways and decided to use his name.

He has little to no background, being an orphan at birth. (yays for no details of parental life).

The person who voted one star was probably a ~sue lover. Don't feel bad, they exist.
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby macfluffers on Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:52 pm

Great post! It's a great case study.

Just one thing that's on most Mary Sue tests (and something you mentioned) that's bugged me was that having a meaningful name is considered a Mary Sue characteristic.

I do this with many of my characters, both those I RP with and those I write about privately, and I find it hard to believe that any of those characters are Mary Sues. (In fact, my more Sue-ish characters tend to have been made before I started doing this.) Cyrus Kyler, a sharpshooter, is named Cyrus because it means "sight." Joanne McCraeg, a singer, has the surname McCraeg because craeg means rock. The personal names of the three Blaque brothers are all names that mean "black" in some language (Jet, Dewayne, Keiran). All the names in one story I've been writing are all based around profession names (Fisher, Mason, Hunter) or Arthurian references (Beaumains, Palamedes), depending on their faction. And so on, and so on.

Granted, I understand that just because something is a Mary Sue trait doesn't mean that the character is a Mary Sue, and I understand that for me it's not so Sue-ish because it's something I do to many characters, and I do try to stick to realistic naming conventions (I understand that outlandish names like "Palamedes Beloniazo" belong in fantasy stories, etc.). However, I don't think that discouraging something like meaningful names is a good thing.

Firstly, if you end up making a lot of characters, like me, then you start to get bored with names that are just sounds. In some cases, names not picked for their meaning (the one that comes to mind is Alexander Anderson from Hellsing, which has both alliteration and iambic meter to help the name sound stronger) can stick well, but I find that naming said character with a meaningful name can be done more easily on a larger scale. Making unique names for each of your character based on their meaning is still an exercise, but is much more convenient than sitting around all day waiting for good names that simply sounds right

Also, it helps with character differentiation. If you take ten characters for ten different stories and have to give them each different names that reflect a prominent part of their personality or role in the story, then you'll be sure that the characters are all different. It's a good way to investigate the character and see what part of them is worth using to help name them.

Thirdly, it's not uncommon for real people to be given names for their meaning. While it would not be surprising that a person in that situation would not ending up living to his or her name, if he or she was named for the meaning, then the parents probably put emphasis and esteem in the trait that the name describes. So a name that matches personality is far from unrealistic.

That said, I also give a fair amount of my characters their names for other reasons. Heinrich Cruez was given his name because the story he is in has a lot of ethnic diversity, and I wanted him to have a particularly German name. Similarly, Admiral Zhongcheng Jiang is a Chinese name that is simply supposed to have a lot of consonance (although I did make sure that Chinese naming conventions were followed).
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Selene Hime on Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:51 pm

macfluffers wrote:Great post! It's a great case study.

Just one thing that's on most Mary Sue tests (and something you mentioned) that's bugged me was that having a meaningful name is considered a Mary Sue characteristic.


I have to say that I agree with you, macfluffers. This is the one Mary-Sue trait I don't agree with. Like with your example, I tend to use meaningful names with my characters. While there are names that scream Sue (Such as "Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way" for those that don't click ... Ouch), having a bit unusual or simply names with meaning does not automatically count towards Sue points.

But, that aside, it shouldn't hurt if their name does have some meaning or reference to their role in a story. For example ... One of my character's names is Selena Raho. It first means "Moonlight" and then "Ocean". A very far-off but slight "reference" to her role (as it doesn't come fully into play until Part III, where it truly surfaces), but still sounds very believable in a fantasy/LoZ fandom setting. All in all, the name has no true affect - Good or bad - as to how the character develops. In thirteen chapters so far and several different roleplays, Selena has made leaps and bounds of progress in Character Development.

Setting and how the character develops are, after all, another few key points to keep in mind. Other than that one little spot, though, I still love how you worked your article, Ylanne. ^_^

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:01 pm

I'm not trying to discourage meaningful names. Furthermore, I submit to you (macfluffers, Selene, and readers with similar sentiments, including myself), that a name with a specific meaning, chosen for a specific meaning, should only be considered a possible sign of a Mary Sue when the meaning is chosen based on the character's personality (not their nationality, or some other motif in the story, or for any reason their parent(s) or namer(s) would have for giving them such a name), as personality is not something acquired by the vast majority of newborns, or fetuses (some parents will choose a name while the baby is still a fetus).

I would agree with your point that any meaningful name, or name chosen for a character on the basis of its meaning, does NOT denote a Mary Sue. This should NOT be shyed away from as a writer and roleplayer. Nevertheless, the author should take great care to ensure that the name selected for its meaning is also consistent or compatible with the character's national origin, parental personalities (as that is often the most defining factor that goes into the selection of a character's name), and time period or other 'setting'.

It is very true that many parents will take the meaning of a name deeply into consideration when selecting a name for their child. Names are powerful, and all names come from one or another language (with the exception of certain constructed names, which are usually found in the realm of fantasy or science-fiction) - for instance, Mary is not an English name. It is an Anglicized transliteration of a Hebrew name, Miriam (which itself is a transliteration of מִרְיָם), which derives from the root words "mara" meaning bitter and "yam" meaning sea, to mean "sea of bitterness". Maria is the Latin, Italian, and Spanish version of Miriam; Maryam the Arabic; Muriel the Gaelic; and Marie the French. There are hundreds of possible ways to transliterate the phonetics of Hebrew to match with the phonetics of another language to create a variant of the name מִרְיָם.

As for me, names for my characters are often selected on the basis of a combination of the following factors (which are not listed in any particular order or priority):

1.) Time period and location.
2.) National origin or ethnicity. (and I carefully follow naming conventions of the target language or cultural group)
3.) Religious beliefs of naming parent(s). (which may also play into naming conventions along with factor 2)
4.) Gender/sex of character.
5.) Alliteration, symphonic sound, etc. Pure phonetics.
6.) Meaning in original language.
For example:

Natalie Elisabeth Schultz
This character was named because of her German nationality, hence the common German surname 'Schultz'. As per typical Western naming conventions, she has one forename, one middle name, and one surname. I honestly don't remember why I chose her forename, Natalie. I think I chose it because I liked the way it sounded, and the letters combined look the way the character appears, at least in my mind (I think in pictures, not words or sounds or anything like that). Her middle name wasn't chosen until just over a year ago, although the character was created in 2006. I wanted an interesting middle name that would flow well with the rest of the name, and settled on the common alternate spelling of Elizabeth with the 's', to make Elisabeth. Interestingly, I know three people whose forenames are Elisabeth.

Marwan Afifi Binumar Binhabibullah Ul Zahir
The name for this Syrian Arab character was chosen based upon Arabic naming conventions. I like the name Marwan, which is an old Arabic name (the meaning of which has been obscured through time), so that was in for forename; Afifi is the 'middle name', or descriptive name attached to the first name; Binumar and Binhabibullal are patryonomics (names indicative of lineage or descent, particularly through the father's line); and Ul Zahir is the Arabic equivalent to the Western surname, although there are no 'surnames' in the Arabic language in the Western sense.

Neldeen Ayvazian
This character's name was chosen after I read a book (perhaps it was written by John Grisham, but it was nevertheless a crime/legal thriller) in which an attorney or social worker goes by N. 'Surname' (I don't recall the surname), and is compelled by a judge to reveal her complete first name, which is Neldeen. I decided I liked the name Neldeen and settled on the surname Ayvzian, an Armenian surname, to accompany it. Thus, I designated the new character as of Armenian descent in keeping with the name.

Those are just a few examples of how I have chosen character names. Obviously, you may find some parallels to your own choices, and others you may find simply disconnected from your own. I say, therefore, that a meaningful name should not be discouraged, only chosen and used wisely, with discernment.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby rayeine on Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:28 pm

Well done, Ylanne, as always! And we all know how well your character turned out, but still, it was well worth it and interesting to see the thought process behind her creation! Some evolution, huh? I'm very sorry for the state of your NaNo. If it's any consolation, I'm about ten thousand words behind where I should be. I should probably get offline and work on my Spanish project.
Now, onto the relevant bit!
Mary Sues. Dear God. Before I started my NaNo project, I litmus tested each and every one of my characters for Sueness. However non-Sueish they all turned out to be, I'm still rather concerned about some of them. [For anyone who happens to be interested in this novel, by the way, my page is here: http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/510945, so feel free to check that out and contact me with questions or suggestions.]
For instance, my main character Leyla is so useless (I'm talking beyond Bella useless - well, actually, let's not go quite that far. To Leyla's credit, she does have some very interesting thought processes) that it's rather unreasonable for some of the things in her life to exist.
Here we have an overly passive character who is twenty five and doing absolutely nothing with her life. And then, all of a sudden, she undergoes one of those cutting-up-her-dresses scenes in a restaurant bathroom with a ridiculously convenient portable sewing kit, struts out of there, and proceeds to get complimented by a waiter right off the bat and then to show up her unreasonably hot Swedish-but-not-really roommate at a nightclub.
What?
Yeah, I'm confused, too. If you feel like helping me, contact me on AIM at melodramaqueen17. And don't question the name. Rayeine is still around.

Wow. I feel great now! It's like a weight has been lifted from my novel brain. Thanks!

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Liquidus on Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:40 am

The Writer's Mary Sue Test
http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

Shion Karasu Julietta is only a little like you. He is not at all cool; in fact, he thinks cool is a temperature reading, and when he says "Oh, I just put on whatever old thing's lying around," he means "on the floor, where I threw it last night - but I turned the underwear inside out first." There's never been anything special about him that he could see; boy, is he in for a surprise. He's got no emotional scars to speak of. And he's gotten no slack from you.

In general, you've kept yourself a goodly distance from Shion Karasu Julietta and given him plenty of room - maybe a little too much. Don't distance yourself so far from Shion Karasu Julietta that you stop caring what happens to him.


I took the test with my character, I tried to answer the questions to the best of my abilities ((Considering the story of my character is incomplete, and evolving as I got along. He's not super duper good or bad. There's no "Evil" or "Good" in his story. I do admit to having him study Bruce Lee and share my fandom..Basically hes neutral. Congratz on Ylanne for a excellent character analysis and story of evolution. I can state the flaws in my character design and fix them now thanks to the test and this crazy good thread.

I have made utter mary sues before, but after reading this I can make them a bit more interesting. I can say they follow the spirit of a mary sue character, but the way that I want his story to go, he won't end up as a mary sue. My goal is to turn every Rp with this character into part of his story. I had a fight with a guy named Yushia, whose character was named "Taken" I added the experience of that spar into my character. Now, I can say that I want Shion to be this amazing badass that can't be defeated, but there's no way I can think of ways to beat EVERYONE I get into an Rp battle with and every Rp won't be super amazing to where he will pick up 1000s of techniques and all the relationships with all the hot women.

After taking a couple of the test (Even though I only posted the results of one) I can see the flaws in my character..For instance I based him out of japan, MY favorite country, He was raised by his grandparents; Although I could argue against that point, I won't bring him parents death into a story to insight emotions, or try to gain sympathy with it. Its an event that he knows about, he doesn't regret living or anything, death is more of an understanding to him than a vice. He is a Child Prodigy. I did want him to know alot, but with the way that I'm developing his story, he won't learn everything and win all the time.

I set him up for the child prodigy part like any other prodigy, the living around the world and learning around the world. I used Bruce Lee's life philosophy of Jeet Kune Do as a way to help his progressive learning, and I myself LOVE Bruce Lee (Fanboy) I didn't necessarily "make" my character Bruce Lee, I used my fandom and his philosophy to keep my character from being too square and giving him a Bruce Lee-like attitude (Also one I adopted myself)

I don't see myself as my character, but I think added just a grain of yourself to give your character humanity and feelings isn't too bad. o.o What do you guys think?

Shion Karasu Julietta

characters/Shion%20Karasu%20Julietta
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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Ylanne on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:50 am

Hi Liquidus - I read through your character's profile and would like to add my input. You did ask for it, so I will try to be as clear and honest as possible:

Firstly, if your character IS Japanese, Julietta is definitely not a Japanese surname - it is a European first name. That is a purely pedantic note, but the name struck me as very odd.

Secondly, a child prodigy is not a lifestyle. Someone who is a child prodigy will possess such prodigiousness regardless of lifestyle, circumstance, or beliefs. Shion might have had the lifestyle of a wealthy favorite son, traveling and studying in exotic places, but that is not to be equated with being a child prodigy. Which - if he is indeed a prodigy of some sort - should immediately be looked at with caution, as this kind of skill may be a sign of a Mary Sue.

For example you write:

Liquidus wrote:After reaching 8 years of age, he had studied many other disciplines, favoring the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and applying it to his masterful knowledge of akikido. At 10 years of age, he had traveled with his grandparents to America, Spain, Europe, and the Caribbean. He bloomed in those years gaining fame as a prodigy and a philosopher


I hate to write this but. . . THIS SCREAMS MARY SUE.

It is quite possible for an eight year old to have been brought up training in the martial arts, but how plausible is it that he would have mastered several of them? Even if he is a prodigy, it seems a stretch to say that in five years (from three to eight years old) he was able to gain a masterful level of experience or expertise in multiple martial arts.

Ten years old and a philosopher, however, strikes me as fantastically unrealistic. Ten years old and interested in philosophical pursuits, definitely possible. Ten years old and fascinated by it, again, definitely possible. Ten years old, and deeply vested in it, yeah, possible, but not particularly likely. But ten years old and FAMOUS for skill in philosophy sounds ludicrous to me.

So what is he a prodigy at? Generally, people who are prodigies possess skill in one particular area: you might have an intellectual prodigy, someone with a genius level of IQ such as Albert Einstein; you might have a musical prodigy, one who is phenomenally talented in the musical arts; you might have an artistic (visual arts) prodigy; an athletic prodigy; etcetera. And to have a character who is a prodigy is in itself NOT characteristic of a Mary Sue necessarily, but to possess such skill in more than one area, and especially to be renowned for this skill, and particularly at a young age (or learning skills far faster than the normal person would or even the normal prodigy if there can be such a thing). . .. those are major danger signs of Mary Sue dom.

Please, please, please don't take this constructive criticism as a personal insult! If you are feeling unhappy with my words, just remember: I wrote 3,000 words attacking my own character. And posted them. In public. And hey, you did ask for my opinion! :)

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Liquidus on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:39 am

Hi Liquidus - I read through your character's profile and would like to add my input. You did ask for it, so I will try to be as clear and honest as possible:

Firstly, if your character IS Japanese, Julietta is definitely not a Japanese surname - it is a European first name. That is a purely pedantic note, but the name struck me as very odd.

Secondly, a child prodigy is not a lifestyle. Someone who is a child prodigy will possess such prodigiousness regardless of lifestyle, circumstance, or beliefs. Shion might have had the lifestyle of a wealthy favorite son, traveling and studying in exotic places, but that is not to be equated with being a child prodigy. Which - if he is indeed a prodigy of some sort - should immediately be looked at with caution, as this kind of skill may be a sign of a Mary Sue.

For example you write:

Liquidus wrote:After reaching 8 years of age, he had studied many other disciplines, favoring the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and applying it to his masterful knowledge of akikido. At 10 years of age, he had traveled with his grandparents to America, Spain, Europe, and the Caribbean. He bloomed in those years gaining fame as a prodigy and a philosopher



I hate to write this but. . . THIS SCREAMS MARY SUE.

It is quite possible for an eight year old to have been brought up training in the martial arts, but how plausible is it that he would have mastered several of them? Even if he is a prodigy, it seems a stretch to say that in five years (from three to eight years old) he was able to gain a masterful level of experience or expertise in multiple martial arts.

Ten years old and a philosopher, however, strikes me as fantastically unrealistic. Ten years old and interested in philosophical pursuits, definitely possible. Ten years old and fascinated by it, again, definitely possible. Ten years old, and deeply vested in it, yeah, possible, but not particularly likely. But ten years old and FAMOUS for skill in philosophy sounds ludicrous to me.

So what is he a prodigy at? Generally, people who are prodigies possess skill in one particular area: you might have an intellectual prodigy, someone with a genius level of IQ such as Albert Einstein; you might have a musical prodigy, one who is phenomenally talented in the musical arts; you might have an artistic (visual arts) prodigy; an athletic prodigy; etcetera. And to have a character who is a prodigy is in itself NOT characteristic of a Mary Sue necessarily, but to possess such skill in more than one area, and especially to be renowned for this skill, and particularly at a young age (or learning skills far faster than the normal person would or even the normal prodigy if there can be such a thing). . .. those are major danger signs of Mary Sue dom.

Please, please, please don't take this constructive criticism as a personal insult! If you are feeling unhappy with my words, just remember: I wrote 3,000 words attacking my own character. And posted them. In public. And hey, you did ask for my opinion! :)

Blessings and peace,
Ylanne


Well, I asked lol thanks for the help. If I can avoid the wild unbelievable things like that, then I just might be able to make a really decent character. I only take 3 things to insult, so no worries. My biggest mistake; which I can see after reading your post, is the fact that I wanted the age of Shion Karasu Julietta to be near my own, so I severely shot down his age in his history to cram as much in as possible. I'll definitely fix that up. I chose the name of my character Shion from a name I liked in the manga Gantz; Shion Izumi. The middle name was just a random bit, meaning "Crow or Raven" in Japanese. And Julietta was grabbed from the Anime "Airmaster" via Sakamoto Julietta.

I usually spend more time in choosing a name and typical end up changing it until I find something that has a nice flow to it. I kinda blew off the name. I fell into a small slump and threw together things that sounded good on paper lol. I'm definitely going to rework the history. Ever since I learned about Mary Sue characters, I've been trying to erases pieces from my own characters. I can see I went crazily overboard with the history though. I have to think of a good way to make it flow better; I'll probably increase his age, change the prodigy part to be more believable and realistic, and I'll add more detail to the description.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Skallagrim on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:46 am

Hmm Well I did the mary-sue test and answered the questions regarding my Skallagrim character honestly... and these are the results.

Skallagrim is nothing like you. He isn't really very cool: he blends into crowds, he hangs out on the fringes at parties, and wearing shades after dark makes him run into things. He may have sometimes thought that he was special, or destined for greater things, but probably dismissed the idea as a fantasy. He's come in for his share of hurt, but gotten off with minor damage. And he's gotten no slack from you.

In general, you care deeply about Skallagrim, but you're smart enough to let him stand on his own, without burdening him with your personal fantasies or propping him up with idealization and over-dramatization. Skallagrim is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of him.



Score Breakdown
Do I Know This Guy? 3
You Mean Plaid Is Out? 7
I'm Destined For What? 10
Can't Complain 6
Momma HATES Him! 0


In the world and story that I have written about he and the Xindhi, he is nothing really special...which is perfect.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Liquidus on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:00 pm

Geez Grim, your character is like perfect O.O lol Typical I pull in my own favorite things to create a character. That's probably where I Mary sue it up from. I like to make powerful characters, but I try not to unbalance the unwritten rules of Rp. I've really never done a Rp site before so I'm kinda use to the small description and the tiny history.

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Re: Treali Storm: A Mary Sue Case Study

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Mr Ious on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:52 pm

well... after reading the excellent post, I decided to test my own character, Xeon, which I use frequently.

Xeon Aeterna is only a little like you. He isn't really very cool: he blends into crowds, he hangs out on the fringes at parties, and wearing shades after dark makes him run into things. He may have sometimes thought that he was special, or destined for greater things, but probably dismissed the idea as a fantasy. He's got no emotional scars to speak of. And he's gotten no slack from you.

In general, you care deeply about Xeon Aeterna, but you're smart enough to let him stand on his own, without burdening him with your personal fantasies or propping him up with idealization and over-dramatization. Xeon Aeterna is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of him.



Score Breakdown
I Love Him, I Let Him Go 8
You Mean Plaid Is Out? 7
I'm Destined For What? 5
Healthy as a Horse 1
Momma HATES Him! 0
Total: 21


well... I do get a feeling that he is a little bit suish in a way though...
but then again, he only shows up in the multiverse, modern, or futuristic settings... so I guess he's not out of place.
qbsuperstar03 wrote:I've been looking at that username for God knows how long, and it JUST occurred to me how to pronounce it.

It's less like "Mister Eye-ous" and more like "mysterious."

Damn, I feel stupid.

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