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Twilight Marmite?

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Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby echo-of-daybreak on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:14 am

So Twilight. I'm sure we all know what it is. A series of books that sent the world vampire crazy, so poular infact they are being turned into films and there seems to be two sides. You either love it or you hate it.
There's the group that says 'I read the Twilight Books before anyone even knew about them, before they were cool, but now i hate them.'
And the other group 'I love the films, they are so romantic! And Ewdward/Jacob is soooo hot!'
Many of us who loved the Twilight books look back now and realise that Bella is infact *gasp* a Mary-Sue, one of the most dreaded beings ever, that sparkling vegitarian vampires are infact NOT a good remodel of the original and that lycanthropy is actually supposed to hurt (the entire bone structure has to change for goodness sake!)
I was a lover of the books and I still watch the films because of that although I am no longer a die hard fan.

I'd love to hear anyone elses take on this topic.

So Twilight.
Do you really either love it or hate it?

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Music on Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:43 pm

I'll respond, because no one else is.

Honestly, I... hate it. I've always been the one who hates something before knowing about it, checking it out, and then changing my mind. Well, I read Twilight, and I decided that it was the dumbest book series I've ever read.

Let's take a moment to back away from the topic at hand, and look at... fanfiction. That's right, the bane of all fandoms. Another topic, for another thread... anyway, without getting into a discussion about whether or not there is such a thing as good fanfiction, it's a pretty universal consensus that there is most definitely BAD fanfiction.

Some of the traits of bad fanfiction:

--- Written by a preteen novelist, who lacks the knowledge of what a good storyline is.

--- Main character is a teenage female, who often possesses most of the same physical characteristics of the author. She also often is 'different' than the majority of her peer group.

--- Main character is also a MARY-SUE; either, she's perfect and can do no wrong, or she lacks personality entirely and is simply an author replacement.

--- Love blossoms everywhere for this Mary-Sue protagonist; many of the normal, flawed males quickly fall in love with her, even if she is relatively normal, which (she normally isn't).

--- Mary-Sue only notices one of her potential suitors, the male protagonist of the series, who immediately sees her as 'the only one'.

--- Their relationship is utterly perfect; if they ever fight, it's over who loves the other more.

--- Despite the overarching plot of the book series up to that point (we're still talking fanfic, kids, keep up) the male character wants to make all sorts of changes in his life to adjust to include (or even center around) Mary-Sue. Perhaps, if he was one of those hot guys who doesn't think there was such a thing as true love, well, she changes his mind.

--- If the guy already had a girlfriend or love interest, she (a) is killed, (b) becomes less perfect in her love interest's eyes, (c) becomes a traitor, or (d) receives a Gary-Stu OC as her true love. The last method is the humane way; the first and second are preferred.

--- To make allowances for the original plot, Mary-Sue is often a 'Chosen One' - even in series where her lover was already the Chosen One.

--- There are slight anomalies in the author's writing; plot devices or facts about the world in which the story is set don't seem to matter. (Example: in a Harry Potter fanfic, the characters might be able to Apparate in and out of Hogwarts, and extremely young characters might be allowed to join the Quiddich team, despite the fact that it is exceedingly rare for that to be allowed.)


That is but a taste of the horror that is bad fanfiction.

So, if you look carefully at these traits, you can see most of them in the Twilight saga.

--- Written by a preteen novelist, who lacks the knowledge of what a good storyline is.
I don't know about the first half, but S.M. doesn't seem to get that the focus of a character's life would not be love at that point.

--- Main character is a teenage female, who often possesses most of the same physical characteristics of the author. She also often is 'different' than the majority of her peer group.
Enter Bella Swan. She has the brown hair and eyes, full lips, and pale skin of her creator. She starts the story by being a pale girl from Phoenix, AZ. Not happening.

--- Main character is also a MARY-SUE; either, she's perfect and can do no wrong, or she lacks personality entirely and is simply an author replacement.
Bella lacks most important personality traits. She's a pushover. Her three predominant characteristics are that she (a) lacks the common sense to stay away from a vampire, (b) seems to be entirely selfless, and (c) is very clumsy. I put more effort into characterizing my characters' pets.

--- Love blossoms everywhere for this Mary-Sue protagonist; many of the normal, flawed males quickly fall in love with her, even if she is relatively normal, which (she normally isn't).
Three boys ask her to the girls' choice dance within a single day. I consider myself a rather pretty girl, and I've been asked on about as many dates this summer. By the same boy. Who happened to have been my boyfriend. ANYWAY. All the boys love Bella because she's so different and unique. Come on; she's from Arizona. That's not unique, that's boring. More to the point, no one ever asks her about what it's like there.

--- Mary-Sue only notices one of her potential suitors, the male protagonist of the series, who immediately sees her as 'the only one'.
Bella ignores all of the guys - except for the perfect Edward Cullen. She goes out of character by agreeing to hang out with him. Not that she has much character to leave behind in the first place.

--- Their relationship is utterly perfect; if they ever fight, it's over who loves the other more.
True life. If that couple had been any more soppy, I would have had to buy one of those damned Sham-WOWs.

--- Despite the overarching plot of the book series up to that point (we're still talking fanfic, kids, keep up) the male character wants to make all sorts of changes in his life to adjust to include (or even center around) Mary-Sue. Perhaps, if he was one of those hot guys who doesn't think there was such a thing as true love, well, she changes his mind.
Edward Cullen is a vampire. He should have ignored Bella and moved on with his life. He didn't, because some stupid, clumsy girl is actually worth his time, apparently.

--- If the guy already had a girlfriend or love interest, she (a) is killed, (b) becomes less perfect in her love interest's eyes, (c) becomes a traitor, or (d) receives a Gary-Stu OC as her true love. The last method is the humane way; the first and second are preferred.
None of the other vampires even affect their relationship, except for Rosalie being the token hater of Bella (who eventually reforms to like her). Most of the vamp girls already have their true loves, Emmet and Jasper. The werewolf girls are the same way. The human girls are too imperfect. The slutty vampire girls from Alaska that show up... well, they're sluts in Edward's eyes. Bella has no competition.

--- To make allowances for the original plot, Mary-Sue is often a 'Chosen One' - even in series where her lover was already the Chosen One.
Bella has this magical power that prevents Edward from reading her mind. This trait becomes a love-activated shield for her companions after she is turned into a vampire.

--- There are slight anomalies in the author's writing; plot devices or facts about the world in which the story is set don't seem to matter. (Example: in a Harry Potter fanfic, the characters might be able to Apparate in and out of Hogwarts, and extremely young characters might be allowed to join the Quiddich team, despite the fact that it is exceedingly rare for that to be allowed.)
Thousands of examples. I'll list two key ones.

--- The werewolves in Twilight have this weird 'imprinting' power, which basically makes it so that the wolf imprints on the girl who is most likely to produce kiddos with him. It's for this reason that one dude didn't imprint on his girlfriend, but instead on her sister - because the girlfriend wasn't capable of having kids.

Anyway, Jacob imprints on Reneesme, the child of Edward and Bella. She is a half-vampire female, which means that she shouldn't be able to produce children. So what's the deal? That's plain idiotic!


--- Here's a fun one.

A vampire, by nature, is a dead creature, which lacks blood. In Twilight, the vamps have blood, but it doesn't move around, since there is no heartbeat to push it through his or her veins.

In "Breaking Dawn", the last book, Bella and Edward get it on (which results in the aforementioned child, which is very poorly named). If there is no heartbeat to pump blood, how does Edward get it up?


As you can see, Twilight is about as good as a bad fanfiction. At least S.M. uses better grammar than some of the ones that I've seen.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaeRaeButterfly on Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:45 pm

I like it but..the movie Vampires Suck looks really good.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Caille on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:24 pm

Well...the movies didn't match up to the books really. Like in the Twilight book there was a lot of scenes in there that were left out in the movie. New moon..well most to say I didn't mind it I thought it was better then Twilight and breaking dawn. My favorite book would be Eclipse out of the series.

Eclipse has also been made pretty well. I personally hate Edward I mean why do girls like him? He has bushy eye brows in the movie which make me burst out laughing every time I see him.

My favorite character out of the Twilight series would have to be Charlie. Just because he is pretty funny. He seems to be a typical father worried about his daughter. I would of liked to see Edward get caught in Bella's room one night but it never happened.

Over all I found the books as not really good. Some of the movies were better. Twilight was a waste of my time to watch I personally think.

New moon meh.

That is why I love and can't wait to see the movie Vampires Suck. I've watched the trailer at least twenty times and laugh. If only the twilight was like that..I would enjoy it.

Not trying to get into a fight here but what Music said about Preteens having a lack of knowledge of what a good story line, offends me. I wasn't a preteen too long ago. As I am 13 now..almost 14. I do know how to write good story lines now and when I was a preteen. Like I said not trying to make any fights..just saying.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Music on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:31 pm

Well, if you read what I said, you might notice that it was... Written by a preteen novelist, who lacks the knowledge of what a good storyline is.

That is not to say that all preteens lack knowledge of what a good storyline is. But many of the ones that write craptacular fanfiction DO. Which was what I was trying to say.

Don't take it personally.

I was a preteen once, and I cringe when I look back at what my idea of a good plot was back then. In years to come, I will probably want to tear down all my current plot ideas. People grow... as does their understanding about writing and good stories.

And one day you will probably dislike your current ideas. Everyone does. No offense intended.

That said, S.M. is a woman in her (what, thirties?), and I, a kid about to graduate high school, could write a more sensible plot line than her. That, if anything, should prove that what you thought I said was wrong.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kitara Turner on Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:00 am

I have only seen one twilight movie: the first one, but I didn't like it as much as I did the books. It skipped some of the better scenes, and what the hell, the meadow scene is supposed to occur during the spring dance, and is near port angeles instead it is on a hill near school like a week after bella falls for eddie. Music, I absolutely agree with you but am ashamed to say that I have written my own parody of twilight, but it started when I was sucked in by the books. the storyline is marginally decent but needs a whole lot of work. I hate the twilight vampires, I mean honestly, they are more fairies then the undead. S.M. created beings that are a disgrace to the vampiric legend, as with the lycans. Her characters are poorly constructed, they are like paper, they needed more depth and creativity to make them believeable. and the casting in the movie could have been sooo much better... but i am a bit biased as I have had a major celeb crush on jackson rathbone for ages before the movie, so naturally i say he was a good choice for his part, but has anyone else noticed that in each movie his hair gets BROWNER! like he is supposed to have honey blonde hair. Halfway through the first movie he goes to dirty blonde. like wtf?
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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Caille on Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:34 am

Music I know you meant no offense :P I was just saying it offended me a little. I'm not upset about what you said or made.

I love how you made the point of Edward not being able to get it up..it's very true.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Kagerou on Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:54 am

..I totally agree with Music.

I am 13, lazy, and write weird fanfictions. Crappy even. I've had to edit my Naruto fan fic sooo many times, it's not even funny.

I dislike Twilight. Vampires should NOT sparkle. It's just...blarg. -.-

Kingdom Hearts. ♥ Roxas, Vivi, Sora, and Axel.

I have a KH fan fic going on right now....And look! Another one of Riku's fan made siblings! :D

Rika, in my opinion, has many flaws. She doesn't look like me at all, she has white freaking hair. -.- Most of my characters have brown or black hair. I have...bronze....hair. -.- My mother is redheaded. I wish I had red hair. I'm babbling. I'll shut up now.
Hey, that's a post!

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Caille on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:07 am

Haha I agree with you Blood. Vampires shouldn't SPARKLE! I now go to twilight movies to make fun of Edward and Bella the odd few times....then sometimes Jake.

But like I said Charlie is awesome.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby fumeii on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:37 am

Edward's sparkling has forced me to draw a conclusion of possibilities.

1. It's a trip to Michael's gone bad.

2. Due to having such a pale skin, he needs to be seen properly whenever standing in front of a white bedsheet.

3. Or, as well as the most obvious of all, Edward is, and will always be, a fairy.

I've give my reason against his sparkling complex. If I were to rant on Twilight, it'd be the length of all Twilight series novels combined, filled with disgust.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaeRaeButterfly on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:47 am

Agreed fumeii! I love your three dot points :)

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Music on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:55 am

fumeii wrote:3. Or, as well as the most obvious of all, Edward is, and will always be, a fairy.


True life.

Which brings me to another point... the vamps in Twilight aren't vamps. They're a different thing entirely.

Vampires, in case you didn't realize, have always had a rather sensual side to them. I think S.M.'s deal with the sparkles and natural beauty is that she never realized that perhaps appearance has nothing to do with sparks between to people (or between person and monster). In the process of trying to create the attraction that would naturally be there with a real vampire, she turned it into something superficial and uber-glittery.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Caille on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:58 am

I have noticed in the books also that most of it is just filler really. I mean do we care about hearing the details of Edwards eyes EVERY time she sees him? no. Then if you also noticed she mumbles a lot! Most of the time it never goes on much with the story because like each book doesn't even make a month! unless S.M skipped a few months or days. So now to sum it up.

1. Lots of filler.

2. Too much detail about Edwards eyes every time she sees him.

3. Doesn't even move the story along. She spends too much time thinking about random things and detailing everything over and over.

4. She mumbles too much.

Thats it for now. If I have more I'll update my list.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Music on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:03 am

Fantasygirl wrote:Thats it for now. If I have more I'll update my list.


I have decided that I like you. Can I nickname you 'kiddo'? :D:D:D:D

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Caille on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:13 am

Sure :P haha :D I'm liked!

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaeRaeButterfly on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:40 am

I could have a massive list..if I could be bothered writing it all up :)

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby fumeii on Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:03 am

Haha, Rae, laziness at it's best works ;D Don't worry. I'm under the same situation here.

Considering this topic at hand, I've always loved the type of vampires who fell under the dark and seductive category. I don't know if it's just me, but I do find it more realistic they were some mysterious, elusive character.

I also find it more sexy.

As to regarding your comments, Fantasy, I agree with you 100% entirely. The points and scenarios in the story necessary to be elaborated seem to be given minimal attention. Instead, the words are all based around Bella's love for a vegetarian Ken-doll with fangs, much to the point where the same features are repeated. Also, resulting me into yet another conclusion. The writing style is dreadfully imbalanced, along with its grammar.

I have more ideas for this 'Ken-doll-with-fangs':
- Calling him 'gay' is an insult to gay people.
- He's been taking high school biology class for the past 90 years. Not only is he plastic, sparkles, is a fairy, but he's stupid, and therefore, requires to be held back, even if it's almost for a century. Apparently aging is the only thing Stephenie Meyer is keeping true about Edward' race.
- Edward is a vegetarian. Perhaps there is blood salad available?
- I just thought of something that could include that fairy thing.

Achem.

Bella: "I know what you are."

Edward: "Say it. Out loud."

Bella: "You're a...a fairy princess."

Edward: "Are you afraid?"

Bella: "No. Where the hell are your wings."

Oh, how I WISH it could be written like that...

Edited <3
Last edited by fumeii on Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby RaeRaeButterfly on Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:27 am

Ken-doll-with-fangs! I love it fumeii :)

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby ComplexitySimplified on Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:53 am

Lalalala, time to make people angry =]


Alright, would you like to know what I think? Of course not, I did just say I was going to make people angry didn't I?

I think all of you twilight haters, are jealous. Yes, that's right, I did say jealous.

Now, you might be laughing your head off right now saying, me? jealous? of what? Bella's ability to set back women asserting themselves into society? No. You are jealous because you can't go back and edit the novel you wrote when you were 13 to make it have proper grammar, along with slamming some larger words in there, like Stephanie Meyer did. I mean that's genius! I want to reach to teens and pre-teens, zomg! I have that book I wrote when I was 13!! Maybe someone will like it, let's read over it and edit it some. I mean, if you think about it, that kind of seems like what Stephanie could have done considering some of the above flaws mentioned by others.

I myself do enjoy the twilight films, and movies when I am in the mood for a very sappy romance, about once a month if anyone understands. I do however believe that SM royally screwed over the image of vampires for some. Some teeny boppers need to have Interview with the Vampire, Dracula, or Carmilla slapped in their faces.

On another note, I do also want to see Vampires Suck. I've watched the trailer and it makes me laugh hysterically.

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Re: Twilight Marmite?

Tips: 0.00 INK Postby Tæfarós on Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:02 am

^Oh shit, is that was that is? And here I thought it was part of some deep philosophical thinking. Complexity, you know us too well. <:O

Lol. Twishite.

Also, Vampires Suck is hindered by its directors. I'm throughly convinced they're unable to make a good film.
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