Women's Marches 2017

What the hell is wrong with you US?
I totally can see where Aniihya is going. While the rest of the world is suffering from existencial problems - you ironicaly are concerned with those of abundance. You have it way to good. You've created that construct of hatred in your heads, that somehow the opposite gender is allways scheming to rape you, or strip you of your hard earned money - while in reality they don't even care about you. Why? Are you that desperate for attention? And the saddest point is, that you started to belive this bullshit, starting all sorts of activism only to divide the society. Conducting 'women's' marches, while you should march for 'human' rights, which automatically cover womens rights by the way. Because you know, the bitter reality is increasingly, that you have no rights before wealth and power (yes in your country). And the ones holding wealth and power just don't care about this bullshit you're occupied with meanwhile.

Maybe Trump is just what you need, to wake you up from this braincontrolled state. Where's the freedom of speech in the US nowadays? You're trying to censor anything, not fitting within your fantasy unicorn ideas. Why do you have to control, what other people think? - Well it's quite obvious to me, why people wouldn't want to hang out around those protests. So i can totally understand people like FyreTiger, not giving a shit about your madness. Hell i don't understand how you could let the whole country to be controlled by media and other peoples influence, instead of having your own brain. Sorry i fail to see how this all is productive in any way - maybe you can enlighten me?...

I don't believe, i need to explain it to you: being a man, woman, gay person or whatever the hell you identify with - your basic rights are covered by the human rights within the constitution of your country. And for that being covered equally for every human being living there. This is a fact - i don't see how this is bs and i don't see how your question is supposed to get this out of the way. How is that even supposed to be an argument? If inequality is your main concern, you should consider the scales of inequality first. And i'll give you an argument to ponder on: go try to protest for identification policy in any muslim country and see what happens. Maybe... just maybe.. you will experience some real sexism once in a while! *gasp*.

But i'll answer:

Yes! I, personally disagree with wasting my time participating in any activism, instead of producing results, which could help the people directly.

"don't be so ignorant as to suggest that just because I have it better than many others, that I live in a glorious bubble of entitlement." - But thats exactly what you are. In the US you are able to express anything without being systematically persecuted, however i wonder for how long anymore. It seems people are getting tired of all the whining.I am well aware that you already said, that US can still have issues - show me a country that doesn't. Still the scale of those is insignificant compared to other countries. I just can't understand how ignorant a person must be, living in the country that gives you the freedom to express yourself as you like and still to abuse this freedom. What do you expect the result of this to be? Well done, you're contributing to the minorities having real troubles in the future!

"As for the rest of your points... they're kind of irrelevant? Like, why are you talking about us supposedly trying to "censore anything, not fitting within your fantasy unicorn ideas" (the fuck does that even mean,
lol)? And what has the media got to do with this particular discussion?"

Irrelevant? how so? - Maybe you would at least try to elaborate. Don't tell me, you haven't even noticed the obvious obsession of the media with all this "political correctness" bs. What if i don't want to be political correct? Mind your own business, media! You see, my opinion is also covered by the right of free speech. See, what happens here is the imposition of an ideology upon the people, they don't want anything to do with in the first place! Read up on the golden rules of journalism, if you didn't already. Thats exactly the opposite of what is happening in the US since the Trump election campaign (at latest since then).

I'd be glad if you brought some logic into your arguments and adressed the points i made, like i did here!

First and foremost, screw you for making me read the first amendment of another country ^^

I shall correct my expression : "my opinion is also covered by the right of free speech" by "The contents of my speech are not prohibited by any law within the US constitution." - which doesn't apply to me anyway, since i'm not a citizen of the US. Still this language police - jeez! Also an interesting thing (and correct me if i'm wrong) is, that i also could claim any expression (yeah yeah aside of the exceptions to the freedom of expression) under the banner of the freedom of press, since it includes every individual publishing anything. On top of that neither me nor you are in the position to decide wether the activism can be considered as "an entity working on behalf of the government" as long as the funding sources aren't made public.

I didn't say Trump will reverse your brainwashing, nor that you have to follow him! I believe you will do it yourself, after Trump leads you to the state of realizing how good you were beforehead. But you have to deal with your president now and respect the choice of the voting majority.

Also i don't care what you do with your time, as long as it doesn't hinder me in some sort. And considering how the modern activism is escaping the responsibilities and distorting the peacefull and logically built debates (or better: promoting the lack of it), i feel the urge to pose concern.

Woah, i'm getting famous! - I wonder if i'm paying way to much attention to this, wasting my time in the process... Forgive me, but i can't adress all of you at the same time - i'll go through post by post:

@SpiritDancer:

"@Red_Cardinal, truly, all of your replies have only proven how ignorant you are of the current state of the United States of America." - You can insult me as long as you want - since my person is in no way relevant to the points made, i only care for the logic of your arguments. And i must say, i don't understand your logic:

First of all - i am investing my time to give my opinion on this topic and discuss the reasons behind it. I list the issues i have with the movement. Then i tackle issues by identifying the core of the problem, since this is the most effective way to deal with any problem. Since US is the most important exporteur of this ideology, i adress the situation in the US. How exactly is this ignorant? I could aswell just ignore the topic completely, like the most people did!

RubyTuesday created this topic, assumably with the intention of opening a discussion, since we were asked:
"I was wondering if any fellow RPGateway-ers were involved themselves, as well as general thoughts and opinions surrounding the movement. Also, whilst I am personally immensely supportive of the movement, I'm kind of curious as to whether anyone on here has opposite opinions to me regarding it, and if so, why?"

1. All 'RPGateway-ers' were asked, 2. 'General thoughts and opinions' on the movement were asked and 3. especially opposite opinions and reasons behind those were asked - i am at last trying to adress all those points.

"If you do not live in the United States, do not speak as if you know everything about how life is there, and especially if you aren't even aware of the basic things like the first amendment, because that only proves how little you know about the country." - I've never proclaimed myself of knowing everything about the US, but i need to tackle the situation for the reasons explained above. And i've read up on the first amandement of your country out of a simple reason of language policing from somebody else, which didn't either affect my argument, nor had it contributed to the discussion in any way. In fact, i will claim that you don't need to know everything about the US to know, that there are more important problems than 'oppression' within the US itself. I will expand on that point later in this post.

Yeah, so thats the first point: i don't know how exactly my replies would prove any form of ignorance, especially when the discussion on all of my arguments is still ongoing.

On your statement about the presidents election: i could retract my wording there, since again it wouldn't affect my argument at all. Trump was legally elected and you have to respect that. I don't undrstand the drive to cling to the unimportant parts, instead of addressing the argument head on. But- i will not retract it, since the following logic chain: president <- electoral college <- congress and senate <- US citizens. So while you're right about the president not being elected by the US citizens directly, my argument still holds: He was elected by the voting majority within the electoral college, participants of which represent the people of the US, because chosen through the congress - the direct representants. Carefull about saying, the system is outdated - there are many thoughts and precautions even you and i don't know, considered by the system. I'm no expert to expand on this - ask appropriate people.

The 'oppression olympics' and the 'doctor example' i find important and will address in the general response.

@wednesdaysun

"Allow me a moment of pettiness (and possible leaning very, very close to tone policing) to juxtapose both those statements together. A 'screw you' does not a 'peacefull and logically built [debate]' make." - i don't know what kind of answer you do expect on that... - Very well, you may proceed! However i might add: your lack of the ability to understand humour is none of my concerns.

"Like I said, I'm not American. He's not actually my president." - then why do you feel addressed? I'm pretty sure, you are well aware that i'm addressing US citizens with those statements. How about expanding on my actual arguments instead?

"I don't think I will. As long as he continues to stand for and act upon values that can cause great harm to his more vulnerable constituents, I don't know how much 'good' he's going to make me, if at all." - sometimes you need to apply evil to do good in the long term.

I will adress that ' relative privation' later, since i think you're referring to the 'doctor parable' by SpiritDancer.

@RubyTuesday

As i mentioned before, you don't need to gauge where i am coming from- since my person is not important for the topic of this discussion. You can adress the logic of my arguments though, since this is the only thing i care for.

Very well, i shall drop the topics of the media brainwashing and political corectness - since they are just too big to address here. However i shall point out that they are important topics to understand the connections to the topic of activism here and now for the last time.

I will move the discussion on the achievements of the modern activism and whether 'the truth is we're just less racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. as a whole' to the general response, since this is an important point. I will also expand on what i mean by 'real problems' and the way of how activsm only contributes to the problems later.






Phew ok - i think i've covered the unimportant parts, so let us proceed to the discussion of the core problems:

To make it clear ahead: i will not let you escape from the argument of women in islamic nations being far more 'oppressed', than western women, by saying something like this: "This is not the oppression Olympics, we are not racing other countries to see who is most oppressed." This is still a fact and i will underline here, that even within the topic of 'opression' there are far greater problems to address. So why don't you go protest for all women, instead of only minding your own business? Go to any islamic country - make a change! Whats the matter? I thought you care for all women..

On top of that, there seems to be confusion on what i mean by 'real problems'. I shall list some now:
- death by prosecution, death in war, death from starvation, death by cold, death by drug overdosis, death by suicide, death in incidents, death in shootings, death by illness/infections, death from terroristic activity and so forth
- state of powerty (especially among homeless people and elders/veterans), different mental states (suicide thoughts, depression, illneses), physical state (diseases, viruses, disability), children without parents, environment state and so forth

As you can see 'oppression' didn't even make it on the list, since i believe all this categories having a greater impact than 'oppression'. I simply do not see how anyone can argue against that. Do not tell me "This is not the oppression Olympics", after going to protests to practice exactly that by whining of how oppressed you are. Hell: I identify as a lantern. Im so oppressed, i have no rights at all - literally. Oh yeah, i think it's a good idea to go on a protest to gain some attention, while there are people suffering far more than me - but who cares about them? I prefer wasting my time contributing to my own well being, instead of helping them! And, honestly, anybody who believes otherwise is just stupid! - Obviously!

Now that leads you to the argument: well everything can be addressed at the same time and independant from the severity, as i understood from the 'doctor parable'. I find it quite good actually - so lets expand on that: You have one patient with an cut off arm before the doctor. Next: at the same time an patient with an cut off finger enters the room: let's call him 'green peace'. Shortly after another patient enters the room - lets call him 'feminism'. He has a problem with his broken nail. And again a patient enters the room. This time it is 'BLM' - doesn't have any injuries, but still wants a check instantly. What doctor in their sane mind wouldn't attend to the patient with the cut off arm? How the hell do you expect the doctor to attend to all of them simultaniously? - "Well just hire another doctor"- you would say. Because you know, you're so accustomed to having all the ressources you need, that you can't see, how there is not enough for everyone! On top of that you're redirecting attention from where it belongs to, which would be the patient with the cut off arm - obviously, to the minor issues you have. How about becoming a doctor yourself? How ignorant and absolutely bull of me to point you to this, right?

But now you'll argue of how the activism still is not waste of time and consider all the achievements! Ok let's get into it:
what achievements exactly do you mean? - Environment activists is the only group i would pay respect in regard to actually achieving an internationally signed convention - the points of which even then can't be held by 3/4 of the countries signed it. You know how how they got so far? - Because they're actually able to lead an intellectual discussion and see the severity of all problems at hand. So lets proceed with feminism. It was able to lead a discussion untill the modern feminism got in their way. Honestly all achievements in regards to equality was achieved by the intellectual people, who identified as feminists back in the day. I think they will think twice and differentiate nowadays! I man honestly?: " Kill all white man, manspreading, safe spaces in universities, concept of patriarchy (which even if it was real accepted the idea of equality as a fair point) - this is all they're concerned with, while people die out there? No wonder nobody takes them seriously anymore! And finally to 'BLM': leading policeman into traps and torturing disabled trump supporters - this movement is just criminal, which considering its funding sources is quite understandable.
So maybe i'm blind here - help me to see the achievements, you're speaking of..

Instead of wasting your time, adding problems on the list of the people, who actually deal with real problems - you might actually consider doing something to solve the already existing and far more severe issues. I have to get my priorities straight - i wont offer more of my time to this topic and invest it instead somewhere else, where it is more needed.