Comedy: Can it ever go too far?

Rulke · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Rulke** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:13 pm

My opinion is if you limit comedy by what tasteful and decent, you miss the point of comedy. True comedy needs complete freedom to do right, just look at British comedy, much of it doesn't care who it insults. The only American equivalent is South Park which essentially calls itself an equal opportunity offender.

Comedy needs complete freedom of speech as even serious things like war or major issues like say abortion and euthanasia, we need to be able to laugh about these in some cases, yes they're major issues. But comedy makes it so we can mock our politicians freely because of freedom of expression and freedom of speech.

My thoughts are comedy can never go too far, because even the stuff that offends me. That doesn't make it wrong.

Thoughts?

Renssaerene · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Renssaerene** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:55 pm

I have to say I was rather surprised to see you'd posted this. But I felt like I should respond anyways, because I do have an opinion on it and I believe you posted it in reference to our OOC discussion in chat.

As I said before, I have no issue with comedy. The game on MS-DOS from way back when was the only one I had seen up until now. It was first-person shooter, and very graphic as far as MS-DOS graphics could take it. The blood, breasts, and suggestive movements of the women.

The storyline behind the game that I saw was something along the line of aliens coming down from who knows where and enslaving all of the human women, Duke's mission is to take down these said aliens. At one point in the game, my brother (who has played it) says that he even goes as far as saying "Nobody takes our chicks and lives."

The entire game is based around the sexism tha tis fueled throughout the game. It shows women as slaves. Nothing more than an object for men to exert their dominanace over, and to ensure their sexual needs be taken care of. You may say 'But its just a parody, its not hurting anyone' but when you are a young boy and this is the image that your favorite game portrays- There is no way you will grow up not thinking that behavior is unacceptable, because the seed was planted saying that it was.

Now I see the new game, Duke Nukem Forever has taken this to a whole different level. The game is rated M, which really won't stop younger teens from playing it as many still play GTA (including myself once in a while) regardless of its rating.

The image covers all the Don'ts for kids- Drugs, violence, and sex. The man has a womans hand near his groin, for Pete's sake. Translation: Girls will have sex with a guy like this, period.

This has absolutely nothing to do with comedy. Its not supposed to be funny. Its a game, that boys will play because its cool. And they may not realize it, but what they see is affecting them internally. What they think, how they think, how they see things. The aspect of sex in that game is just perverse. It doesn't show women as beings, or people with feelings and needs of their own, it completely objectifies them. All they are is what is between their legs and under their shirt.

As far as comedy goes, I laugh at a lot of things that aren't appropriate. Jokes about Barack Obama, foul language, things regarding subjects like racism and war- But that's making light of something. We understand these are serious matters, but finding something amusing to say about them keep us from feeling so bogged down in the mist of it all.

That game, and sexism, are not the same as comedy. Far from.

I've myself joked about womens breast size, and the equivalent for men, but that's a joke- Humor. That is not something put out as "This is okay behavior, this is cool, this will make you popular". That game is not comedy, it is perverse media that is being used to show certain things to youth that they should not be shown. And so, I believe that there is a limit to that.

But if its just good comedy, all in fun, hardy har har, do whatever you want to make me laugh. But some things just aren't funny.

I'm open to discussing this further, as long as its objective and not taken personally.

-Lyn

Nevan · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Nevan** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:14 pm

Maybe the people who have an issue with games like Duke Nukem Forever shouldn't be letting their children play them in the first place, instead of blaming the creators of the game and those who do enjoy it for any negative effects it may have. >.>

Also, Duke Nukem Forever hasn't been released yet. What you're doing there is judging a book by its cover, even if the cover of that book is used for advertisement to gather interest from the fans. And that's exactly who it is aimed at - fans, adults, people who enjoy that kind of comedy. Yes, it is comedy.

I don't see people complaining about all the violence and sex on TV and in Movies. Such scenes in movies and on TV? Sure, why not! But a video game featuring them? OMG the world's ending!

=/

Remember, it isn't the underage Teenagers and Children who buy this game, it' the Parents, so blame them. And thankfully most Teens are smart enough to realize it's all a big joke. >.>

Rulke · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Rulke** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:23 pm

LynIsMe wrote:I have to say I was rather surprised to see you'd posted this. But I felt like I should respond anyways, because I do have an opinion on it and I believe you posted it in reference to our OOC discussion in chat.

As I said before, I have no issue with comedy. The game on MS-DOS from way back when was the only one I had seen up until now. It was first-person shooter, and very graphic as far as MS-DOS graphics could take it. The blood, breasts, and suggestive movements of the women.

The storyline behind the game that I saw was something along the line of aliens coming down from who knows where and enslaving all of the human women, Duke's mission is to take down these said aliens. At one point in the game, my brother (who has played it) says that he even goes as far as saying "Nobody takes our chicks and lives."

The entire game is based around the sexism tha tis fueled throughout the game. It shows women as slaves. Nothing more than an object for men to exert their dominanace over, and to ensure their sexual needs be taken care of. You may say 'But its just a parody, its not hurting anyone' but when you are a young boy and this is the image that your favorite game portrays- There is no way you will grow up not thinking that behavior is unacceptable, because the seed was planted saying that it was.

Now I see the new game, Duke Nukem Forever has taken this to a whole different level. The game is rated M, which really won't stop younger teens from playing it as many still play GTA (including myself once in a while) regardless of its rating.

The image covers all the Don'ts for kids- Drugs, violence, and sex. The man has a womans hand near his groin, for Pete's sake. Translation: Girls will have sex with a guy like this, period.

This has absolutely nothing to do with comedy. Its not supposed to be funny. Its a game, that boys will play because its cool. And they may not realize it, but what they see is affecting them internally. What they think, how they think, how they see things. The aspect of sex in that game is just perverse. It doesn't show women as beings, or people with feelings and needs of their own, it completely objectifies them. All they are is what is between their legs and under their shirt.

As far as comedy goes, I laugh at a lot of things that aren't appropriate. Jokes about Barack Obama, foul language, things regarding subjects like racism and war- But that's making light of something. We understand these are serious matters, but finding something amusing to say about them keep us from feeling so bogged down in the mist of it all.

That game, and sexism, are not the same as comedy. Far from.

I've myself joked about womens breast size, and the equivalent for men, but that's a joke- Humor. That is not something put out as "This is okay behavior, this is cool, this will make you popular". That game is not comedy, it is perverse media that is being used to show certain things to youth that they should not be shown. And so, I believe that there is a limit to that.

But if its just good comedy, all in fun, hardy har har, do whatever you want to make me laugh. But some things just aren't funny.

I'm open to discussing this further, as long as its objective and not taken personally.

-Lyn

So you wish to mollycoddle people in favour of actually putting these issues forward. The game Duke Nukem was made during the time Exploitation films were in and it shows. It's supposed to be campy , overthetop and generally just comedic. I go back to what I said comedy shouldn't be censored even if it offends me, you. It shouldn't. This is comedy. Jersey Shore far more damaging than this game besides, and that ain't a comedy.

Renssaerene · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Renssaerene** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:25 pm

Nevan wrote:I don't see people complaining about all the violence and sex on TV and in Movies. Such scenes in movies and on TV? Sure, why not! But a video game featuring them? OMG the world's ending!

I don't know where you've been, but that's essentially what the PTA is for. That's the biggest issue with children, the media they are fed. And people speak out on it all the time.

I used the game as an example based on a discussion Rulke and I had in chat, concerning the game. After that discussion he posted this, hence my referencing it and using it as a basis.

Its a fact that the majority of people buying games, or playing them, are teens. Most of those are younger teens. Its not appealing to adults, and if it is that's not all its appealing to. I said I personally don't like the game, I don't have anything against anyone who does. I'm saying the idea of sexism and sexist things being funny is absurd. The game was just a means of my conveying that.

Also, kids do buy their own games. That's what allowances are for. Parents tend to be very out of the loop on what their kids do, what games they play, and so on. Yes, that is their fault. But should there be such things out there in the first place?

I have nothing against Duke Nukem specifically, or its users. Just the content and messages being put out.

Renssaerene · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Renssaerene** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:31 pm

Okay, Jersey Shore is just an idiotic explosion of stupidity. Nobody, even its biggest fans, take that seriously. Its on MTV no less, which college kids in their 20s watch for the heck of it.

I do not wish to 'mollycoddle' people in favor of anything. I stated my opinion, as MY opinion. I didn't say "You all are so stupid for beliving this you stupid sexist bastards" did I? No. I said that's what I thought. Just as you are saying what you think. I have no issue with what you are saying, but the reason behind you're words is what tends to put me off.

The Dictionary wrote:1. Professional entertainment consisting of jokes and satirical sketches, intended to make an audience laugh.
2. A movie, play, or broadcast program intended to make an audience laugh.

Satire, possibly. But it is not comedy.

Rulke · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Rulke** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:36 pm

LynIsMe wrote:
The Dictionary wrote:1. Professional entertainment consisting of jokes and satirical sketches, intended to make an audience laugh.
2. A movie, play, or broadcast program intended to make an audience laugh.

Satire, possibly. But it is not comedy.

Satire is a form of comedy, as is parody and even mocking to some extent. Comedy is grouping term for different sorts of comedy.

Sciamancer · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Sciamancer** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:01 pm

Comedy has its limits as much as anything else does. Simply put: Strip the jokes out of something funny to get the underlying meaning. If said underlying meaning is acceptable, so is the comedy. If not, then no. The issue is finding out the underlying meaning. Is that sexist joke really just mocking stereotypes in good nature, or is it meant to be taken more seriously? It's hard to tell. Often even the author can't be trusted 100%.

NorthernSoul · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **NorthernSoul** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:18 pm

I think comedy can never go too far so long as it doesn't bully, so long as it doesn't mock people who don't need mocking or those that are unable to defend themselves. Aside from that, as far as I'm concerned, anything goes. I think Stewart Lee is a very good example of exactly this kind of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

Lukisod · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Lukisod** on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Free speech for everyone. Say whatever you want, however you want and to whom ever you want. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences of whatever you say.

If you make a joke and people laugh, you have won at comedy. If you make a joke and some people are offended but still other people laugh, you have still won at comedy. You just have to start thinking about what these offended people will do now. Will they boycott the show? Maybe you'll lose future revenue. Maybe the owner of the club will take notice and not like losing the customers, so he wont let you do your routine at the club anymore. Perhaps someone really doesn't like it and decides to take it out on your face after the show.

Consequences. Deal with 'em.

I'm in the army. We get into some pretty dark humour. As long as people are laughing it's ok. If it turns to harassment, then one of the two parties is going to end up dealing with it one way or another.

Duke Nukem Forever is targeted to the same audience who enjoyed the original Duke Nukem 3D. Which is to say... older teens and up. People who have a very tight grasp on what is real and what it fantasy. Even children for the most part have a grip on what is possible and expected to happen in reality, and what happens in the movies and games. Those that don't quickly learn or get institutionalized for good reason.

If the logic of "Video games cause violence" were true, you would expect to see a statistical rise in violent crimes since the advent of violent games. To the contrary, it's gone down in the US. The only thing going up is the instances of media latching onto scapegoats in an attempt to bring in some ratings.

Sciamancer · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Sciamancer** on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:21 pm

Lukisod wrote:If the logic of "Video games cause violence" were true, you would expect to see a statistical rise in violent crimes since the advent of violent games. To the contrary, it's gone down in the US. The only thing going up is the instances of media latching onto scapegoats in an attempt to bring in some ratings.

If video games cause violence, then violence would go up after violent video games. This assumes that nothing else changed that could have caused violence to go down, which, as you've already proven, is false. Something or somethings are causing violence to go down. These anti-crime somethings obviously outweigh the things that cause a rise in crime, or otherwise we wouldn't see an actual drop in crime. An overall statistical drop in crime in the US since violent video games started does not help support either position.

If violent video games cause a 10% increase in violence, but another factor (say, better education, or something) decreases violence by 20%, we would expect violence to decrease by 10%. Those numbers are made up, of course, and purely hypothetical. I don't know whether violent video games cause violence or not.

Lukisod · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Lukisod** on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:13 pm

Excellent point Sciamancer. Something I've never considered before. So would you posit that if we removed video games than violence would go down proportionally? How about full contact sports such as youth hockey and football?

Mid · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Mid** on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:22 pm

The hell...?

Jersey Shore isn't a comedy?! I've been lied too... :(

JS aside (I love this show >:() I would have to say that comedy does have its limits in presentation. A good comedian can make a joke about dead babies without actually saying, "Hoshit! Eet's a dead fuckin bby!" I've always found indirect comments funnier then being raw about things, but that's my personal taste.

Jag · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Jag** on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:59 pm

For many people, comedy is their own way of dealing with things. My ability to take what my wife describes as a sick and twisted sense of humor and find something to laugh at in the worst of situations is the way that I deal with the worst of the worst that we face in this world. At the same time, I know that my sense of humor and the things at which I laugh would be incredibly offensive to others who don't operate in the same manner and need a more serious manner with which to cope with the issues they face in their lives.

Sciamancer · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Sciamancer** on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:21 pm

Lukisod wrote:Excellent point Sciamancer. Something I've never considered before. So would you posit that if we removed video games than violence would go down proportionally? How about full contact sports such as youth hockey and football?

Unfortunately, it's hard to tell due to other factors also changing. I'm guessing it would also take a while for the removal of video games to affect people, though it could be fairly quick. Due to lack of information of psychology and experience, I have little room to make a hypothesis. If we were to somehow remove violent video games (or full contact sports) in great numbers (which I doubt you could do without some sort of oppressive dictatorship), and we saw drop in violence that would not have been predicted by previous violence amount patterns, then that would be sufficient data for proving that violence goes up due to video games.

Another possible experiment, possibly easier than removing video games though still very difficult, would be to introduce video games to a population that didn't have them. Find some villages in some 3rd World Country receiving aid, monitor violent activities for a few years (decades?), then start giving them violent video games along with their food, water, and medicine. Continue monitoring violent activity. This is severely flawed, as are most sociology/psychology experiments, but would provide some insight that didn't involve taking away a major entertainment source from a population. Such a thing could result in more violence in and of itself, at least initially!

Another possibility could be getting large groups of children of similar socioeconomic backgrounds. Group A is exposed heavily to violent video games, having them as an only major source of entertainment. Group B is given violent video games moderately, limited to a certain number of hours per day as many parents do. Group C is completely denied violent video games. Monitor these childrens' violent activity. The issue here would be making sure each child doesn't break the rules, getting parents to go along with this plan, and even people accusing the researchers of child abuse.

It's very hard, to say the least. Psychology can be the most difficult science to test with experiments. Any of these experiments would require astronomical funds, time, and effort.

I think that removing or adding violent video games would have such a small effect on violence that it would be written off as within the margin of error, the margin of error being quite large due to the many uncontrollable variables inherent in psychological experimentation.

pooka_x · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **pooka_x** on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:23 pm

I don't have an issue with a lot of stuff, I am totally open to a lot. Although there is this one manager at my old work who would always joke around about a bunch of stuff, and looking back I feel stupid for getting so angry about it, but one day I just couldn't handle it anymore and blew up at him. After that he stopped. It made me feel like a little kid and I just hated it. I mean its one thing to joke around when everyone gets the joke but when you say stupid things that only you find funny I don't understand. Some comedy is going to far and I think people just need to realize it before it goes too far.

Bigot · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Bigot** on Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:53 am

"The only rules comedy can tolerate are those of taste, and the only limitations those of libel."
~James Thurber

Everyone has different opinions on what is acceptable humor and what is not. I've never known a single person who genuinely thinks any kind of joke can be funny. Have you?

Comedy: Can it ever go too far?

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