Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Moon/Mihael · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Moon/Mihael** on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:02 am

My brother had recently ask me a confounding question. It was

If you were to travel to an alternate universe, found your double, and accidentally killed him/her, would it be considered as suicide?

The definition of Suicide is as follows: The act of killing yourself.

Personally, I think it still counts as a suicide, even if it is considered to be a murder in that alternate universe. What do you guys think?

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:14 am

Well it could be argued that Suicide is actually "taking your own life." In that sense, seeing as though your alter-ego is not actually consciously a part of you, it is not actually you, which would make killing them simply an act of homicide.

Lukisod · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Lukisod** on Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:03 pm

I think Tsukihana has it down.

Here's a better one: You're identical twin was technically apart of you at one point. Thus, wouldn't killing your twin not be murder but self mutilation because part of the "whole" entity would still be alive?

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:08 pm

Lukisod wrote:I think Tsukihana has it down.

Here's a better one: You're identical twin was technically apart of you at one point. Thus, wouldn't killing your twin not be murder but self mutilation because part of the "whole" entity would still be alive?

That is a very arguable point, and though I like the concept of it I think the law would still consider it murder.

Andreis · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Andreis** on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:24 pm

If you were in an alternate dimension, though, would that really be you?
I mean, based on the idea of nurture, a singular difference could change the entire course of that person's mental development. It seems to me that it would be precisely the same as if you had a clone.
It is not genes that define who a person is.
It is an individual sentience and consciousness, evolving from life experience. Genetically, no matter how identical someone is to the next, their consciousness evolves on different pathways based on experience and choice.

It would be murder, in my opinion!

fixed.at.zero · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **fixed.at.zero** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:22 am

I'm gonna go ahead and say that's murder. Even though the alternate you may still be "you" in a sense, it's still technically another person if they're standing right in front of you.

Moon/Mihael · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Moon/Mihael** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:59 am

Here are the sites that my brother has posed the question from. Please note, they are the same site, but different pages, and must be followed in order.
http://lfgcomic.com/page/149
http://lfgcomic.com/page/150

CortexiphanGirl · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **CortexiphanGirl** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:15 pm

I'm going to say that it's STUPENDOUS! Oh... I mean, MURDER! In fact, I've often pondered this question while watching my favorite TV show, Fringe... If you're a Fringe Fan, you'll know what I mean. Because, quite honestly, if our Olivia killed the alternate Olivia - I'd be down with that!

And I agree, Tsuki nailed it. *high five*

leopardspotz17 · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **leopardspotz17** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:57 pm

fixed.at.zero wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say that's murder. Even though the alternate you may still be "you" in a sense, it's still technically another person if they're standing right in front of you.

Just to play devil's advocate here... Keeping the same point, ie, "it's still technically another person if they're standing right in front of you," what if you went back in time. In that case, you WOULD be killing yourself... This point is totally irrelevant, however, in the fact that the discussion is of alternate dimensions, not time travel.

I'd agree that killing alternate-you is homicide, not murder.

So... yeah.

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:28 pm

leopardspotz17 wrote:Just to play devil's advocate here... Keeping the same point, ie, "it's still technically another person if they're standing right in front of you," what if you went back in time. In that case, you WOULD be killing yourself... This point is totally irrelevant, however, in the fact that the discussion is of alternate dimensions, not time travel.

Sadly, traveling back in time is, as far as I'm aware [and according to Stephen Hawking], completely impossible. However, if it were possible and one managed to go back in time and kill their past self, what would the result of this scenario be? Theoretically, it would create a paradox and destroy the very fabric of the universe, but let us examine a scenario where this is not the case.

If your present self by some means survived the ordeal, it would be murder as opposed to suicide or self-mutilation, due to the fact that it isn't actually you [it does not have all of the same experiences as you do, hence it is in fact a separate person]. And even if your present self were killed in the process, I would still consider it a murderous scenario that simply resulted in suicide, due to the previously stated proposition.

leopardspotz17 · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **leopardspotz17** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:24 pm

Ack. My brain. It's overloading with the sheer amount of time-travel based confusion. I still believe it would be suicide. Unlike the multiple-dimension theory, past-you is still you. And if your death occurs as a result of killing past-you, it would be suicide. As in "killing oneself". Despite time-gaps, you are still irrefutably you. And then the universe would unravel.

Good God.

Hmm... Perhaps killing other you's falls under both categories of "murder" and "suicide". I shall draw up a Venn Diagram... ;)

leopardspotz17 · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **leopardspotz17** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:34 pm

Don't know why this double posted...

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 pm

To quote the philosopher Heraclitus,"One cannot step into the same river twice." Going by this statement, I personally do not believe that an individual faced with a temporally different self is in fact any more "them" then a "universally alternate" self.

Lukisod · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Lukisod** on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:58 pm

In a time travel to the past scenario you could kill someone, however this will create an unstable timeline and you'd get a feedback loop until a stable one in which you didn't kill that person appears. So by any objective standard, you wouldn't have killed anyone. Therefore I'd say that murder in a "travel to the past" scenario would never pan out.

On a completely related to the thread note: I think we've pretty much established here that "Suicide" means self-termination. While murder/homicide means terminating a separate entity, irregardless of physical similarity to the entity doing the terminating.

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:49 am

Hah... We really are just beating a dead horse, aren't we?

leopardspotz17 · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **leopardspotz17** on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:37 pm

I concur. End note - yay for murder! *ahem* I mean, uh, don't kill people. Even if the person is you. Or alternate you... Or past-you.

WAIT. Question: If you went into the future and killed future-you, that would not create an unstable time-loop, correct?

Zephyr · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Zephyr** on Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:02 pm

Hmm... Theoretically, your future self would know of your intentions before they happened, and thus try to stop you, unless of course your "future self" was "in on the plan". All it would do would kill your future self, and thus cause your future death, whilst resulting in a never-ending loop of past selves killing future selves. I do not think you would get a feedback loop, but really we're dealing in temporal theoretics here, so I could very easily be wrong,

Moon/Mihael · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Moon/Mihael** on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Suicide is the act of killing yourself, correct? Then, if you traveled to an alternate universe, found your double, and killed him/her, would that not constitute as suicide? Because, you are, in fact, killing yourself. Therefore, one must conclude that you have committed suicide.

Do not include murder/homicide in the discussion, as it was only a side note, something not to be taking seriously. The question stands as "Would it be considered suicide if you were to travel to an alternate universe, found your double, and killed him/her?" Murder is murder, either way, but that is not what I have asked.

CortexiphanGirl · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **CortexiphanGirl** on Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Suicide: the act of killing oneself.

If you find your alternate self and kill it, but you are still alive, then no. You have not killed yourself.
Also, I like what Tsuki said a few posts back,

Tsuki wrote: "Well it could be argued that Suicide is actually "taking your own life." In that sense, seeing as though your alter-ego is not actually consciously a part of you, it is not actually you, which would make killing them simply an act of homicide."

In order for it to be a suicide, you have to show intent. When someone falls asleep at the wheel and drives off of a bridge, it is not labeled as suicide, even though they have killed themselves, because the intent is not there.

Even in the case of murder, which I'm only bringing up to support my theory of intent. You can only be convicted of murder if the prosecution can show your intent to kill (among other things, of course.)

In the case of killing your alternate self, the intent is to kill that person, not yourself.

My thoughts!
Lilaiy

Lukisod · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Lukisod** on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:40 am

Suicide: The act of self-termination

It's still not strictly suicide because you and your future self are separate entities at that point. However, it could be assisted suicide if you did this with the intent of letting your past self go through with it. You've established you want to die by some means and your past self shows up and helps you do it. No time paradox or anything assuming your past self returns to his own time to continue through time until the point where you sit down and let your past self kill you.

However you wouldn't even need to return immediately, you could go on to live a full life so long as you returned at some point to the point where you sit down to die.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

a topic in Discussion & Debate, a part of the RPG forum.

Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Re: Killing Your Alternate Universal Self

Post a reply

Make a Donation

Who is online