Knowledge of Other Beliefs

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:46 pm

Here is a short catalogue of questions for me for a short study of mine. Debate on perspectives is allowed.

1. Did you know that there were other belief systems than Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Buddhism and Wicca?

2a. If you dont know what Abrahamic religions are or what the others are, please list below.
2b. Why do you dont know of these? (only if you answer 2a)

3. What do you think Pagans/Neopagans believe in? (if you arent one yourself)

4. Paganism has nothing to do with Satanism. Do you disagree?

5. Do you believe your religion is better than others? Why? (I know this one could end bad, so please refrain from getting too heated up)

6. Are you a creationist or an evolutionist or something in between?

7. Of what belief systems do you know of?

8. Did you know there were other forms of creationism, some even very close to scientific theory?

Fallacy · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Fallacy** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:53 pm

Aniihya wrote:1. Did you know that there were other belief systems than Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Buddhism and Wicca?

Yes, I realize that there exists more than four ideologies worldwide.

3. What do you think Pagans/Neopagans believe in? (if you arent one yourself)

Not really sure. I think that it has, or at least had, something to do with animism.

4. Paganism has nothing to do with Satanism. Do you disagree?

No.

5. Do you believe your religion is better than others? Why? (I know this one could end bad, so please refrain from getting too heated up)

I don't believe in any religions, so this question is non-applicable.

6. Are you a creationist or an evolutionist or something in between?

I believe in science.

7. Of what belief systems do you know of?

There are so many different religious, political, philosophical, etc. belief systems that it would be pointless to try to name them all.

8. Did you know there were other forms of creationism, some even very close to scientific theory?

Creationism can range from mind-blowing stupidity to the appearance of being maybe slightly reasonable, yes.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:05 pm

Unless you misread question number 4 Fallacy, then you believe that Paganism has something to do with Satanism. Wouldn't have expected that from you.

Fallacy · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Fallacy** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:09 pm

Aniihya wrote:Unless you misread question number 4 Fallacy, then you believe that Paganism has something to do with Satanism. Wouldn't have expected that from you.

You asked if I disagreed that Paganism has nothing to do with Satanism, to which I said no, which means I agree that it doesn't. It looks like you even confused yourself with double-negatives :p

Macabre Legion · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Macabre Legion** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:39 pm

1. Did you know that there were other belief systems than Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Buddhism and Wicca?
Yes, and it is sometimes entertaining to put them all in the same room along with scientific evidence that demolishes some, if not most, of their claims.

2. Abrahamic religions are Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

3. That would depend on the person's definition of Pagan.

4. In general, I do not disagree, but in some cases, again, it depends on the person's definition of "Paganism".

5. Ignostic Atheist, no religion what so ever.

6. I believe in what my senses tell me more than I do most other things.

7. Besides the modern day ones? I know some of the ancient belief systems, and how most became the modern day belief systems.

8. Really? Prove it then. We've seen religions that'll make us want to tear are hair out, beat the crap out of people for, and on some occasions, intrigued by their mindset.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Aniihya wrote:1. Did you know that there were other belief systems than Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Buddhism and Wicca?

I'm confused by the tenses. :)
(Yes, I know there's other belief systems.)

3. What do you think Pagans/Neopagans believe in? (if you arent one yourself)

As I understand it, pagan is a term of exclusion, like "barbarian" was to the Greeks. To Christians, Egyptians and Greeks are pagan, as are folk beliefs. Not sure what Neopaganism is, but I'd guess it's a conscious denial of Christianity.

4. Paganism has nothing to do with Satanism. Do you disagree?

Can't say. They might have some similarities. I'll jump, and say that Satanism (which is not the worship of Satan) is a type of paganism. I'm probably wrong.

5. Do you believe your religion is better than others? Why? (I know this one could end bad, so please refrain from getting too heated up)

If I had one, I'd have to believe it was the best. I'm not sure how much knowledge a person can have of other religions before this becomes impossible, but I did abandon Judaism pretty quickly.

6. Are you a creationist or an evolutionist or something in between?

I believe that, of the two options, only evolution is scientific. I'm not sure what an evolutionist is, but I don't take evolution as dogma, nor do I think creationists shouldn't try to make their beliefs more scientific.

7. Of what belief systems do you know of?

Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, shamanism, Epicureanism, Stoicism, empiricism, rationalism, utilitarianism, deontologism, modernism, post-modernism, pragmatism, liberalism, libertarianism, sadism,... or did you mean just religious ones?

8. Did you know there were other forms of creationism, some even very close to scientific theory?

Yes. There's a rather vocal movement whose clearly stated purpose is to find ways to make creationism scientifically credible.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:09 am

dealing with it: To number seven, just the religious ones.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:29 am

I'm curious, Aniihya. You mention quite frequently that you are a polytheist. I know about polytheism. Artemis and King Actaeon is one of my favourite religious stories. But monotheism already seems like a load of fables to me. (With care, I can sort of see a pantheist "God" working, but only because I do some mental gymnastics and call it "Nature" in my head.) Adding more gods seems like a step in the wrong direction.

I'm not sure if I can reconcile polytheism with Reality. I know this is a broad question, and I don't expect you to answer it completely in just one post, but how do you do it?

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:39 am

For me, an almighty god with limitless power is unrealistic. If you have many gods, they are like consultants. Lets take an example with someone who has potency problems. He asks let say Al-Lat/Aphrodite/Ishtar for help. With enough willpower in his prayer, it will help him with his potency problems. Religion is not just a belief in higher beings where many are uncertain that they are really there but even a real believer will take positive effects from it. It is called spiritual healing. Each god/goddess in polytheism has a special function. And taking one god out of many and denouncing the existence of the others pissed the old pagans off because uneducated peasants were lazy when it came to religion. Instead of many colorful and different rituals and rites as well as a broad spectrum of gods, they took the prayer and only one god out of it and tried to force it onto the pagans. We polytheists do not terrify or force others into believing. We come and say, we have many friendly colorful gods and goddesses as well as dark and evil ones, you dont need to believe. It is also a tradition thing.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:30 am

Aniihya wrote:Lets take an example with someone who has potency problems. He asks let say Al-Lat/Aphrodite/Ishtar for help. With enough willpower in his prayer, it will help him with his potency problems

Okay, I'll take this example. How is this more than a placebo effect? How do I know that Aphrodite is an existent, capable of comprehending human need and influencing the world?

We polytheists do not terrify or force others into believing. We come and say, we have many friendly colorful gods and goddesses as well as dark and evil ones, you dont need to believe. It is also a tradition thing.

I'm against forcing someone into believing anything, since forced belief lacks authenticity. But I also don't believe that you can substitute reason with tradition. I want to be sure what I'm believing is the truth, and I want to know it for myself, even if I have to reinvent the philosophical wheel.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:15 am

Reason is part of tradition in this case. Our world view is a bit different. And it isnt really a placebo effect thing but sort of is. Gods are something symbolic and many have different views on that. They exist but to what degree? Some believe they are physical but still unseen to the human eye. Others believe that they reside in another realm. We know though that they can influence this world but they wont make drastic changes for the reason that the human being needs to be responsible for his actions and for his progression. I shake my head when Christian rely solely on the power of their god. They wont get anything that way. Each being has more or less a fragment of their creators essence. This fragment is composed of intelligence, logic and reason. Though morals must be learned from another. Each being gives what isnt instinct, so experience on to the next generation. The purpose of the gods is to watch over their creations and make tiny changes that have a long term effect. They will answer a prayer if the cause is seen as pure and necessary. You cannot pray to a god to win the lottery. But you can pray to a god/goddess to find inspiration or to get the feeling to do better. I know for example that I have been heard for example. Last winter I got horribly sick because my body cannot handle cold temperatures. I prayed this fall after giving an offering in Japan and helping the needy. I prayed for this winter to not get cold. For the past few weeks, the meteo has predicted temperatures down to minus 10 Centigrade and snow, but it never went under +5°C and it hasnt snowed yet.

By the way, you can use any temple that is for more than one god to pray as long as the people who use it dont have a problem with your belief.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:25 pm

Aniihya wrote:Reason is part of tradition in this case. Our world view is a bit different.

Reason, in the form of deduction and induction, is part of the philosophic tradition. But I get the sense you have a different meaning when you say that "reason is part of tradition". What do you mean by reason? My best guess is that you mean something like "a belief is reasonable if it has reasons".

They exist but to what degree? Some believe they are physical but still unseen to the human eye. Others believe that they reside in another realm.

Let's pin this down. Which one do you believe, and why?

Each being has more or less a fragment of their creators essence.

Were your gods created by other gods? If yes, what's the most primal form of this god-essence?

I prayed this fall after giving an offering in Japan and helping the needy. I prayed for this winter to not get cold. For the past few weeks, the meteo has predicted temperatures down to minus 10 Centigrade and snow, but it never went under +5°C and it hasnt snowed yet.

You have the power to change the weather? That seems to be far more impressive and powerful than winning the lottery.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:12 pm

Everything has a reason. Without reason you do nothing. The reason part is something that needs so much explaining that I wrote nearly 40 pages in another forum but yes it is a philosophical thing.

I believe that gods watch over me, their location is unknown but I know they are there.

To the third, that is unknown. They might have been created by the eternal time, they might have been there in an endless loop. But where the gods came from doesnt need to be explained. Many have been born from other gods like humans are born from humans. But there is no knowledge of a primal being. Its like saying that your god has a primal being who created him. It is uncertain and the human is naive to believe that a god cant lie. The essence is presumed to maybe be the source of everything, just like energy in science or Gaia in celtic belief. There are many uncertainties that not even a book can answer or a human can comprehend to.

No I dont have the power to do so. It was the influence of the gods. In a time, where many do not believe in the belief of their ancient ancestors, the gods and goddesses have less prayers to answer.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:05 am

Aniihya wrote:Everything has a reason. Without reason you do nothing.

Not all reasons are equal. Something based on personal history, like "I am Catholic because my parents raised me Catholic" is a reason, but it doesn't show a person using their reason. It's really more like an excuse. A good reason that shows the use of one's own reason is a proper justification, using logic and founded in doubt. How many different sorts of reasons did you go through in those 40 pages?

I believe that gods watch over me, their location is unknown but I know they are there.

Is this indubitable?

But where the gods came from doesnt need to be explained.

This really depends on how deeply you want to investigate. I don't believe you can over-think this. I'm a bit disappointed you haven't plumbed the depths of your beliefs. I know, for instance, that the pre-Classical Greeks believed that their gods arose out of Chaos.

Its like saying that your god has a primal being who created him. It is uncertain and the human is naive to believe that a god cant lie.

I don't really have a god. The closest thing to a god in my ontology [my categories of things that necessarily exist] is Being (in-itself). And I don't think of Being as something with its own mind. If gods did exist, they would have to be made up of, and exist within, Being.

In other words, they are brought forth from the stuff of reality. But I guess "what is the stuff of reality?" is a derailment of this thread, so I'll cut myself short. The basic stuff of reality is "substance", so if gods exist, they have to be substantial.

I do think the presence of Being is a lot easier to prove than the existence of gods. Descartes did it in three words: cogito ergo sum (I think therefore I am). Simply by doubting our existence, we have verified existence: something has to be doubting. I'm not really sure how to prove that gods are substantial. Do you have any ideas?

There are many uncertainties that not even a book can answer or a human can comprehend to.

I'm on the fence here. I'll explain. There are theories of the universe that a few humans, such as theoretical physicists, have come up with that I will never be able to comprehend. And this doesn't include theories about the universe that not even the brightest geniuses on Earth can hope to think up. But I really don't believe that beliefs about gods are at this level. A patient and logical person of average intelligence has everything they need to understand deity, and have an educated opinion on it. Do you think your beliefs about gods are relatively complete?

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:46 am

My beliefs about gods and goddesses is certainly complete but there are things that dont need to be answered. The philosophy of my religion is to just live your life, work hard, progress and enjoy the rest. About the creation of the world we know that the world was once a fireball that cooled down, the gods filled this solid rock with a layer of water, out of the water arose volcanoes which created land and out of the water arose life. Imagine my belief have many parallels with Hinduism but yet has differences too.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:29 pm

Aniihya wrote:My beliefs about gods and goddesses is certainly complete but there are things that dont need to be answered.

Okay, "where do the gods come from?" and "what are gods made of?" might be too difficult of questions. I'll tone it down a bit, and ask a question that I think needs to be answered.

What are the practical advantages of believing in your gods, compared with, say, believing in magick?

The philosophy of my religion is to just live your life, work hard, progress and enjoy the rest.

What do you mean by "progress"? Progress toward what?

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:47 am

Practical advantage? Inspiration. While holding on to something you talk to the gods. They bring hope. My denomination believes that the gods give you a place in life. With the gods watching over you and being by your side, you can accomplish many things. While the gods can influence, you can actively do something. I give money to and help the poor, because that is my path in life. I lay off the burden of greed and materialism to give to those who have more need. And I believe the gods are always by my side. I have been to Japan twice. The homeless there dont beg. I gave one some money and a blessing. The second time I was there and randomly met the man who was back on his feet, had a home and a purpose. He thanked me for my help and invited me for a round of shochu.

And with progress, I mean for the human species to advance in technology, life, intelligence. There is only little conflict between science and religion in my case. You can both be religious but also be a researcher as long as you dont worry about the tiny differences.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Aniihya,

When I asked what practical advantages you got from believing in a pantheon of gods, I was wondering specifically if there is anything you couldn't easily get from other sources. Hope, a sense of purpose, a desire to be charitable... these are almost universal. What service do you receive that other religions wouldn't give you? Or is this simply a matter of choosing the religion you are most familiar with?

You can both be religious but also be a researcher as long as you dont worry about the tiny differences.

I've never thought otherwise. The only exception is that it can be hard to be both religious and a researcher if what you research is religion.

dealing with it · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **dealing with it** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:33 am

Actually, I'm roleplaying a goddess in a polytheistic universe. A bit of the disappointment I was talking about earlier comes from the fact that I've had to invent quite a bit about polytheism: how gods come to be, what they are made up of, how they think versus how humans think, where they get their powers from. It feels awkward to have personally invented a theory of deity that is more in-depth than the genuine article. I really think you should challenge yourself to know more about your religion.

NightBlaze · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **NightBlaze** on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:18 pm

1. Yes I did. I am a Wiccan.

3. Noepagans/Wiccans believe in a God and Goddess and the forces of Nature.

4. Paganism has NOTHING to do with Satan. Pagans don't believe in Satan!

5. I do not believe that mine is better than others. Everyone has their religion which has it's strengths and weaknesses.

6. Something in between.

7. Taoism, Shamanism, Paganism, Christianity.

8. Yes, the name of them i do not know.

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