Does a forum RP count as art?

[dealing with it]

When trying to answer a question like this one, a simple yes or no is insufficient, because art can mean so many different things to different people. Some people think art needs to be beautiful. Others believe that art expresses a wide range of the artist's thoughts and feelings; others still hold that something is only art if it creates a special "artistic emotion" in the audience -- an emotion unique to art.

Maybe it's art because it was intended to be used in a certain way by the creator, or it might be art if it has some essential properties X, Y, and Z. Maybe something can only be art if someone poured work into it, or maybe it can be art despite never being touched by human hands. Or, it's art because the someone in power says so. Or, perhaps the word "art" is merely a term of praise that we happen to use to describe pragmatically useless items.

I briefly summarized these theories to show that the word "art" has a mercurial definition; it's hard to pin down exactly what we mean by it. By no means does that leave us with a dry question of semantics. One of the most exciting facets of art is that artists consistently try to challenge what art itself means: an avant-garde exists, and creates fascinating work. And sometimes this avant-garde goes so far that we don't agree with them that they've made anything of merit. The goal of the avant-garde is to challenge us (whether or not they succeed).

Now, it's an open question whether or not games count as art. It's not a simple matter to decide if a game of chess is artistic, or if Fallout is a work of art. There is a broader consensus on the status of literature, but I'm not sure if forum roleplaying falls into that category.

So, this leaves me with several questions, which I can boil down to the topic: when, if ever, does a forum RP count as art?

[dig17]

How about this: what isn't art?

[dealing with it]

A perfectly legitimate question. If we ask whether Buddhism is actually a religion, knowing what isn't a religion is every bit as helpful as knowing what is.

In the case of art, I think most people will agree that natural phenomena like trees, grass, and stars are not, in and of themselves, art. As well, art is traditionally contrasted with another, similar activity: craft. Designing and building a table, for example, is not artistic.

Thirdly, there is the whole range of other human behaviours -- eating, sleeping, talking, waiting in line at the bank, and so forth -- that quite frankly, just aren't art.

Fourth, there are borderline activities which might or might not be art, but one glance will not give us enough information to make a classification. These require us to examine what we mean by our words, not merely what we don't mean. We need positive characteristics. "Found art" (such as Duchamp's famous "Fountain") is a strong challenge to our intuition as to what "art" means, and can fall on either side. This is also the category that, I believe, games fall into. Is a well-played game of Go a work of art? Or, back to the topic, is an roleplay art?

[Fallacy]

This is a stupid answer, but everything and nothing is art. As they, beauty is in the beholder; one man's trash is another man's treasure. What is and isn't art is purely subjective. A literal piece of shit could be considered art.

As for me, written roleplays are, in a nutshell, just collaborative stories, and I consider stories art, so yes, roleplays are art.

[Prose]

This is a wonderful and exciting topic, honestly. I can't believe that this hasn't been asked before! As for my own opinion, its really hard to say what is and what isn't art. That will always remain a mystery because someone can walk up to a piece of painting that is no more than feces scattered on canvas and call it art. Gross, but its the truth, and I think its been done before. Not too sure. But art to me is something that holds the heart and soul of its creator or author. Something that had to be born into the world because it could not be ignored. Something that just captivated someone and struck much emotion into that person's or persons' heart.

So, I suppose that roleplaying games can be art and can spur art from it. It just has to be able to strike those emotions which triggers it to be considered as such by someone or by multiple people. A game that makes someone stop and say, "Hey this is definitely art."

[Skallagrim]

The question reminds me of the argument "Are console/computer games art?" In a Newsweek article from March of 2000, Jack Kroll argues that "games can be fun and rewarding in many ways, but they can't transmit the emotional complexity that is the root of art."

I think textual role-playing does indeed transmit emotional complexity that fits that definition of art.

[Fallacy]

The question reminds me of the argument "Are console/computer games art?" In a Newsweek article from March of 2000, Jack Kroll argues that "games can be fun and rewarding in many ways, but they can't transmit the emotional complexity that is the root of art."

I think textual role-playing does indeed transmit emotional complexity that fits that definition of art.

Why can't games transmit the emotional complexity "that is the root of art"?

I don't think people stress that all ideas of art are purely subjective enough. That's something important to remember when arguing about what is and isn't art.

Once again, roleplays are just stories, so yes, I consider them art. I consider pretty much everything art though, so my opinion of what is and isn't art is kind of worthless.

[Prose]

I don't think that was Skallagrim's personal opinion. He didn't state that video games weren't or were art. Just quoting that Jack fellow. I personally, though am strange when it comes to videos being art, but I don't want to get off topic. Heh. But I can say that some roleplays aren't just stories. Some characters and universes I create feel just as real as my own world. Those are the ones that I consider art, along with those that are created by others users.

[Skallagrim]

Eos is correct I never stated a pro or con on the topic, merely pointed out that the topic is similar to the video game argument. Art, like all things, is in the eye of the beholder. While some Role-plays can transcend just merely playing out a character and become much more. Others do not and are merely just romps of fancy for the sake of being flights of fancy. For instance the Possibly Pirates role-plays I have been involved in here on RPG are what I would consider art, the storyline and character development become more than just mere characters. While other role-plays are just fun and frivolous games.

[dealing with it]

I don't think people stress that all ideas of art are purely subjective enough. That's something important to remember when arguing about what is and isn't art.

Yes, art is a matter of taste. Not only when we decide whether a piece of art is good or bad, but even when we try to decide if something is piece of art at all.

However, I'm not with you when you say that "pretty much everything" is art. I think the word art communicates something with meaning, and people have a somewhat intuitive grasp of what this something is, even if it's hard to define. Specifically, I believe "art" has the depth of meaning of an emoticon... it's a brief glance into someone's psychology.

What I find curious is that although most people itt agree that RP's can be art, not all RP's are art. I wonder how you'd draw a line like that?

[number twelve]

As an artist in the 'traditional' sense of painting and etc, I personally believe that writing (no matter whether it is in the format of a forum RP or a novel) is indeed art. That is, only if it has artistic value. I could draw a stick man, but that would not be art, now would it? Same goes for writing/RPs and the like.

[Fallacy]

That is, only if it has artistic value. I could draw a stick man, but that would not be art, now would it? Same goes for writing/RPs and the like.

Why not? I consider stick mans art.

[Darrelkun]

Art is something that provokes thoughts or feelings in someone else who views it.

So yes, forum role-plays can be counted as art. Just about everything in life can be considered art.

[Riruka Dokugamine]

I wouldn't deem it art unless you want to go "EVERYTHING IS ART, BRO. LIFE IS LIKE, ART. DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND? *smokes another joint*", but I think it does help hone your abilities in terms of imagination and writing so that you can improve your artistic skills.

[Mr_Doomed]

Art- the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance. (Dictionary.com)

The key word to take out of this definition is significance. What is significant to one person could be different from someone else. To me, everything is art. There is a form of beauty in everything. Even the things that we see every day are beautiful if you just take a second to look at it from a different point of view.

Back to the question at hand though. According to the definition it is. It is a collaborative production of written expression that has a significance to those who read it. Simple as that if you are looking at it from a technical point of view.

[Fallacy]

I wouldn't deem it art unless you want to go "EVERYTHING IS ART, BRO. LIFE IS LIKE, ART. DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND? *smokes another joint*", but I think it does help hone your abilities in terms of imagination and writing so that you can improve your artistic skills.

But I do want to do that D:

[awkwardoctopodes]

Short and sweet answer is really just a short answer.
My two cents is that RPing is more of a practice of art then an actual art form.

[Fallacy]

My two cents is that RPing is more of a practice of art then an actual art form.

What's the difference?

[Proxidog]

Dictionary.com:

art1
/ɑrt/ [ahrt]
–noun
1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4.
the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5.
any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6.
(in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7.
the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8.
the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9.
skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10.
a branch of learning or university study, especially one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11.
arts,
a.
( used with a singular verb ) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b.
( used with a plural verb ) liberal arts.
12.
skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13.
trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14.
studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15.
an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.
16.
Archaic . science, learning, or scholarship.

Generally art is any craft, trade, or skill that one possesses that involves something evoking a true human emotional response

So yeah, I think that roleplaying can be considered an art

[dealing with it]

I'd really like to hear a counter-argument, if anyone can muster one up. Habit has me never quite considering a matter closed unless I hear some competing viewpoints; one of the simplest ways to combat groupthink is having a Devil's Advocate.