Gay marriage: Yay or nay?

LaurenAFI · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **LaurenAFI** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:16 pm

True Grave wrote:Gayness disgusts me to begin with, so I do not support gay marriage. It, and everything else about homosexuality, is wrong. I know that probably makes me unpopular in many of your eyes, but whatever. I am of the Christian religion (another strike against me for most of you), and I believe that God's will was that man and woman should be together in marriage. If you're homosexual, you can be together. But, do not defile what I see as a beautiful and glorious thing. Well, the wedding usually is, anyway. That is my opinion, like it or loathe it.

I agree.
An example that one of my mom's professors used was that god created humans and animals.
You don't see two male dogs walking around and "getting it on" if you know what i mean.
I don't think that it's physically right but as long as they aren't being violent or hurting me than I don't care.

melodramaqueen · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **melodramaqueen** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:24 pm

Oddly, I wasn't going to mention RENT at all, but I was listening to the soundtrack and figured it fit.
I don't have any issue with you expressing your feelings on this-but I take offense at your issue with gays trying to do the same.
Ordinarily I would say more, but I'm currently using a very slow iPhone to write this. I apologize for my responses' brevity.

True_Grave · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **True_Grave** on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:28 pm

I have no problem with gays expressing their feelings on this isssue. I have a problem with being the only naysayer and being put on the cross for it. I'm being cross-examined like a star witness, something nobody else is gettting. Someone finally agrees with me, so at least the world hasn't completely changed on me. Gayness is wrong, even bisexuality gayness. However, I have not much against bisexality, as I chalk it up to hormones in most cases and believe they will grow out of it. I am unwilling to accept the gay customs because I believe it says that I'm OK with it. I'm not. I mean, why is nobody asking, 'Why do you believe in gay marriage?' to each other? There's no questions, except to attempt to dissuade me from my opinion. It won't happen.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:18 am

As a homosexual I most obviously support gay marriage. I want to have that normalization, you know? I've lived with the same girl for 4 years--been with her for a total of 6. We want to share insurance, we want to share the marriage experience. We want the categorization of our relationship to go that extra step. We want to file joint tax returns and share medical rights as a married couple. We work just as hard as anyone else to live productive lives; to uphold healthy, wholesome values; and to be good to our planet and the people that populate it. As human beings, we want to live as other human beings do. As marriage needn't involve church ceremony, I can't blame churches for wanting to deny homosexuals access to said ceremonies. However, as I live in a country that claims to have separated church and state, I think I deserve the same legal marriage rights as the next Joe. That's how we feel.

And in the end, after being with someone for so long, "girlfriend" just doesn't properly describe the relationship that we have. Calling someone "wife" out of wedlock always sounds a bit weird and attention-whorish. x3

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Now, to try and enlighten:

LaurenAFI wrote:An example that one of my mom's professors used was that god created humans and animals.

Oh yes, animals are gay too. This is just one little article in a sea of books, magazines, newspaper articles, internet articles, and more that can inform about just how many animals do exhibit homosexual behavior.

LaurenAFI wrote:You don't see two male dogs walking around and "getting it on" if you know what i mean.

Don't tend to see gay people walking around getting it on, either.

(stop watching Cinemax!) This is because animal and human homosexuality are not raging trends threatening to overtake normal breeding. We're just another animal species.

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Now this I actually found much more offensive than TrueGrave's hateful posts.

Sinn-Seduxion wrote:Same Sex = Pleasure Only
Opposite Sex = Relationship

Perhaps that is all you get out of your bisexual encounters, but to assume all homosexual relationships are based strictly on sexual pleasure is to degrade the very brain functionality of every single homosexual. Please do not tell me that the loving, fulfilling, and extremely intellectual relationship I have with my girlfriend is a Pleasure-Only bond--indeed, that it's not even categorized as a "relationship."

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True Grave wrote:I'm being cross-examined like a star witness, something nobody else is gettting.

This is because you've posted multiple times and expressed quite severely how disgusting and wrong and-.. well, let me just quote a few things, it'll be easier:

True Grave wrote:...It, and everything else about homosexuality, is wrong...
...I see these gay weddings in the newspaper and want to puke. It isn't right...
...They should stay in the closet...
...I look down on gays...
...Gayness is wrong, even bisexuality gayness...

You are being very offensive. You are speaking of several people (myself included) as if we are so gross and so lowly and so below-par and so incorrect that we shouldn't even utter a word of our lifestyle to anyone, lest you be tempted to vomit. ...Excuse me? You claim to not have a problem with homosexuals, but that you look down on them because they are homosexual. ...Wha? After all, only one characteristic makes a person gay, and that's the homosexual relationship that they're in.

And I might add that no one is shouting at you or throwing insults at you or putting you on the line. They are openly asking you about the views that you have seen fit to post again and again in as disgusted a manner as possible throughout this thread. You have put yourself on a judging panel. No one else has done this for you. When they ask you a direct question involving the thread topic (since you see fit to rant on about how gross gays are instead of simply answering the OP question), try not to be condescending to them.

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Now, for those who have come to this thread to talk about how nasty and awful homosexuals are, I suggest you take into account the people who may be reading the thread. What you are expressing are opinions, so don't lay them out as blatant truths, and try not to be so offensive. Just a common courtesy. Also, this thread wasn't put here to hate on people. It was posted to ask about marriage rights. Please everyone keep their Decency Hats on. :3 Let's not bash!

It's always my hope to help people better understand things they may not have a firm or fully educated grasp on. I hope I've done that today.

BSX · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **BSX** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:31 am

Decency and respect are a rare thing on this forum, anyway if gays want to be miserable like straight couples, I say why stop them? Let them see what it's like to raise a family on minimum wage, have a ton of bills and loans, and the cliché family drama. If they want that kind of life then more power to them.

Athias · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Athias** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 am

True Grave wrote:Sorry I don't share the popular opinion. There is no true definition of normal, but I define it as a person with regular sexual preferences and an inner maniac that does not get in the way of what is required in life. Being two of th things that go directly against my beliefs, melodrama, I am not surprised by your reaction. I do not wish to watch Rent. Also, why do I get the fire? Because I believe differently? Am I not being allowed to have an opinion that is my own? Am I to be speared because I state the opposite of the popular opinion? I look down on gays because I do not like or support their way of life. I will never change this, no matter how much flak I have to take. All of you who attempt to tear me down and my idea with it are trying to force me to change my opinion, and that is wrong.

True Grave, I have tried to be moderate, but I am getting slightly annoyed by you. It's not the fact that you have a differing opinion that annoys me. Instead, it's the fact that almost every post you've made (save for one) has been a varierty of the same formula. The first part is just restating over and over again that you are against homosexuality, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But what I can't stand is that you keep claiming that you're being persecutedfor your beliefs simply because people disagree with you. This is a debate forum, people will not always agree with your opinion, you need to respect this. Couldn't someone easily claim that you're persecuting homosexuals for their own prefrences?

If you really feel it's that bad, (and I mean this as politly as possible, though it probably doesn't sound polite, which I apologise for.) then simply leave the forum, we won't take this to you if you don't want to continue it.

Wakboth · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Wakboth** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:38 am

Wait guys, woah woah. There is absolutely no need to get annoyed at anyone. True Grave is more than entitled to her opinion, however when she simply re-itterated her earlier arguement then suddenly and apparently reasonlessly claimed she was being picked on, I found it a little hard to keep up!

As for the comment about 'normal sexual preferences'. What is with this view that homosexuals somehow practice abhorrent or overtly subverse/perverse sexual intercourse? Stop me if I'm wrong but I figure a lot of gay people could tell us that there is just as much soft loving 'normal' sex as there is for a heterosexual, if anything heterosexuals are more likely to be really perverse

(this is speaking purely on the bases of the friends I have, and that the homosexuals I know are very soft, loving and romantic, and the heterosexuals I know are a bit whacky and perverted. I'm not generalising, but from the people I know it seems the 'normal' ratio falls more to homosexual intercourse

)

Another point, though ThatsNotPoetry already said this; gay relationships are not all about sex, their relationships.

Sweeping America and the world? If you mean the attitude modern people seem to have towards things, the lack of caring and the degrading behaviour in our persistently more materialistic society, I must say it's not something to blame on the gay community. If you wanna be disgusted with how the world is, fine. The world makes me angry to, TrueGrave. But it's hardly something to be pinned on anyone particular.

True_Grave · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **True_Grave** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:38 am

I'm a fucking guy, Wakboth! Yes, I find gayness offensive to me. I do not hate them as people. I simply do not like their way of life. I'm sure there are several homosexuals against my way of life. I am fully educated on the subject of gay marriage, and don't need a lesson on it. I choose my point of view, as you choose yours. That's all there really is.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:44 am

Wakboth wrote:What is with this view that homosexuals somehow practice abhorrent or overtly subverse/perverse sexual intercourse?
...if anything heterosexuals are more likely to be really perverse (this is speaking purely on the bases of the friends I have, and that the homosexuals I know are very soft, loving and romantic, and the heterosexuals I know are a bit whacky and perverted...

I think this is getting way off topic, but I just wanna clear something up for you, Wakboth. I think generally when people talk about how abnormal or perverse homo..sex.. homosex? homosex is, they are using the words "perverse" and "perverted" quite literally. "Perverse: adjective- Obstinate in opposing what is right, reasonable, or accepted." Yes, homosexuality is different from the norm. It is by far a minority occurrence in the stance of the majority of heterosexual relationships, and does not produce children. Of course, a heterosexual relationship in which the couples cannot/choose not to have children also does not produce offspring. As we have evolved beyond the basic needs of "eat-poop-screw-have babies," now we seek relationships for the companionship and emotional bond of a lover.

What's hilarious to me is that you point out amusing generalizations about the homosexuals and heterosexuals you know, and the kind of romantic lives they lead. I rooted it back to types of sex, "soft and romantic" and "whacky and perverted." And I was reminded that homosexuals don't have any different orifices or openings than anyone else. We have the same kinds of sex as heterosexuals. Using our hands, mouths, breasts, penises, vaginas, etc. Homosexuals didn't invent anal sex. xD But I find it's frequently what grosses out guys so much. Buy guys put it in girls butts all the time! Let's be consistent! xD! (And I know a lot of people are, it's just funny to me.)

And oh my, need to edit to add this:

True Grave wrote:I'm a fucking guy, Wakboth!

Woah, chillax, hombre. You never specified a gender in your profile, so don't flip your lid when someone makes a 50/50 mistake.

True Grave wrote:I'm sure there are several homosexuals against my way of life.

Against you being a heterosexual? Hahhahahahhahhaaha.

True Grave wrote:I am fully educated on the subject of gay marriage, and don't need a lesson on it. I choose my point of view, as you choose yours. That's all there really is.

No one is disputing your knowledge of gay marriage. I greatly dispute your knowledge of people (see above laughing fit), but not on the legalities of proposing gay marriage to the public.

Athias · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Athias** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:28 pm

True Grave wrote:I'm sure there are several homosexuals against my way of life.

How on earth can you make that argument when you yourself are against THEIR way of life?

Also, most homosexual people don't hate heterosexual people for being heterosexual, but many do hate certain heterosexuals for making their life hell. Even in this country, being gay is a liability.

True_Grave · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **True_Grave** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:40 pm

This topic is growing old for me. I am against their way of life, and know that in the huge world I live in, there has to be some homosexuals who are against the heterosexual way of life, though none of us can say for sure. We are at an impasse. I will not change my opinion and none of you will change yours. Why don't we end this argument by saying: let us agree to diagree.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:10 pm

True Grave wrote:This topic is growing old for me. I am against their way of life, and know that in the huge world I live in, there has to be some homosexuals who are against the heterosexual way of life, though none of us can say for sure.

So you've never met anyone who has proven this for you. You're just making broad, hateful assumptions based around another assumption ("I hate what they do because I am assuming they hate what I do and thus my assumption justifies it"), and passing judgment for said assumption. That doesn't seem very wise.

True Grave wrote:We are at an impasse. I will not change my opinion and none of you will change yours. Why don't we end this argument by saying: let us agree to diagree.

No one was disagreeing with your opinion about homosexual marriage. They're disagreeing with your attitude. We're all already agreeing to disagree. You're kind of late with that unnecessary suggestion.

So stubborn for someone who has no reason to be :\ I'm the one being told that my love for my girlfriend is so gross and awful that it makes people want to vomit. Shouldn't I be more upset than you? C'mooon, just let it go.

True_Grave · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **True_Grave** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:15 pm

One, it was not a HATEFUL assumption. Two, I don't judge homosexuals who hate my way of life. It's only fair if I dislike theirs. My last comment was my way of trying to peacefully withdraw from the topic. I'm sorry you see it as unnecessary, but I'm tired of explaining my beliefs to people who don't agree with them.

I didn't even want this argument. I just wanted people to see what I believe and say, "OK, next." I admit that I never wanted to vomit, but I do shake my head at the thought of it.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:18 pm

True Grave wrote:One, it was not a HATEFUL assumption. Two, I don't judge homosexuals who hate my way of life. It's only fair if I dislike theirs. My last comment was my way of trying to peacefully withdraw from the topic. I'm sorry you see it as unnecessary, but I'm tired of explaining my beliefs to people who don't agree with them.

I could use more quotes and make more points about the contradictions between here and there, but you want out and that's cool. Alright Grave.

Have a nice day.

iamsheena · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **iamsheena** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:50 pm

I'm not up for making a long explanation or post as to my choice but I am for gay marriage. As long as you're able to love and be loved in return, I see no problem.

Just as people should not be looked down upon because of their social status, sex, or race, they should not be looked down upon because of their sexual orienation. You wouldn't want someone putting you down and telling you that something is wrong because you choose to do it that way (in any case), so why do such a thing to others? That would thus be a hypocritical view on your part, wouldn't it.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:19 pm

iamsheena wrote:Just as people should not be looked down upon because of their social status, sex, or race, they should not be looked down upon because of their sexual orienation. You wouldn't want someone putting you down and telling you that something is wrong because you choose to do it that way (in any case), so why do such a thing to others? That would thus be a hypocritical view on your part, wouldn't it.

The thing of it is, Neesha, Grave has every right to feel however he wants to feel about anyone and anything. It's going around ranting about it and using zero tact or decency in a public place that gets people up-in-arms. Let's not throw the "hypocritical" mess in people's faces. People are going to judge based on a lot of points, and we may not all agree on them. What matters is which of these judgments are used to affect our laws and our behavior toward each other. Then it becomes a prejudice and ignores the laws that are meant to separate church and state. Which comes to my response below!

The Rogue Doll wrote:I think that it doesn't matter so much whether or not you think it should or should not happen, but do you think that it should or should not be outlawed.

I admire my father for this that he taught me: He is COMPLETELY against homosexuality and thinks that gay mairrage is wrong. But in the United States, he believe that it should be legal. It is not a religious joining that they are asking for, there are certain rights your wife/husband has, for instance receiving your things if you die or having the choice on whether or not you should be taken off life support. Important things. And we are supposed to have freedom of religion. Being against homosexuality is strictly because of religion for him, and he recognizes this. And he says no one can force him to be Catholic or go to a certain church. No one can force him to give to the church when he doesn't want to. He has religious freedom, why can't others?

I only just caught this post! I think you make a fantastic point, and I applaud your father for his common sense. Separation of church and state, religious freedom, medical rights, etc. I wish more people would consider that just because their religion says something, it doesn't mean they then have the right to rule others with it--of either different religions or differing religious viewpoints. Especially when our laws (in American, anyway) are not supposed to be at the cause of Christianity. Many stances between the law and religion share several core values and whatnot, but they are still separate. Using the hatred from one matter to deny a human being's rights in a separate matter? No thanks. I think you've made a great addition to this thread, I just wish more people had taken notice of it.

Wakboth · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Wakboth** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:08 pm

ThatsNotPoetry, I didn't mean to make any generalisations, well not offensive ones. I know the real meaning of perverse, but I felt from the way he was speaking he was taking issue with some assumed idea that homosexuals have really strange sex and are part of some huge degrading culture. My point about friends of mine was simply that homosexuals don't somehow have less 'normal' sex than heterosexuals and that people are given to have sexual preference based on personality rather than orientation. If you get what I mean.

sittingboob · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **sittingboob** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:14 pm

i totally agree with gay marriage after all why not?

(going a little off subject)
t makes me wonder why people take offence to homosexuality you know like the KKK and those Christians that equal jihadis, after all for the past four years I've worked alongside allot of homosexuals in school and not once have they ever done anything stereotypical.

ThatsNotPoetry · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **ThatsNotPoetry** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:20 pm

Subject: Gay marriage: Yay or nay?

Wakboth wrote:ThatsNotPoetry, I didn't mean to make any generalisations, well not offensive ones. I know the real meaning of perverse, but I felt from the way he was speaking he was taking issue with some assumed idea that homosexuals have really strange sex and are part of some huge degrading culture. My point about friends of mine was simply that homosexuals don't somehow have less 'normal' sex than heterosexuals and that people are given to have sexual preference based on personality rather than orientation. If you get what I mean.

I know what you meant. :3 I was just mentioning that I think it sounds a lot worse than most people mean it. I didn't take offense to what you said, no worries. I've just been trying to keep the peace in this thread by stating that I understand multiple viewpoints.

And yeah, I think it's really funny that people equate "strange sex" to homosexuals. You make a good point! We have the same body parts as heterosexuals. We have the same kind of sex, too xD And if it's guy/guy stuff that weird people out, heterosexuals have anal sex as well (what, like homosexuals invented anal sex? haha!) Seeing as there's so many more heterosexuals than homosexuals, I pretty much assume there's a lot more hetero-anal-sex than homo-anal-sex goin' around! People are so quick to assume the strangest things. But I also understand it's the gender that makes a lot of people upset. Not the individual acts.

Ponats · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Ponats** on Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:25 pm

I am not sure why religion comes into the effects of marriage. There is no one religion that practices marriage, hell it is older than a lot of the religions out alive now. The religious part of same sex marriage is gonna cause a lot of controversy as it is, a lot of religions have some strong views on the matter. But this thread isn't really about religious views tho.

Looking at the legal stand point of marriage, where people get married and share there resources. Personally I think anyone should be able to get married. Who cares if they are man or woman, we are all people right? Who cares who they are marring? Why do we have to be sexist about it?

But I have a question for those of you who are against it. What happens if the person isn't a male or female? What happens if they were born with both or none? Are they not allowed to get married? Do they have to marry the opposite sex that is written on their birth certificate? Are they supposed to marry someone that looks like the opposite sex of themselves? Can you even call them gay or straight? Going into that matter, what happens if someone gets a sex change? Is it okay then?

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