Islamic Center Near Ground Zero: Yes or No?

Ylanne · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Ylanne** on Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:42 pm

My latest blog post, put up yesterday at Fugitive Seeking Truth, is entitled In Support of the Islamic Center Near Ground Zero: Memorial to the Muslims Killed on 9/11 and Symbol of America's Values. One can easily guess from the title what I think (feel free to click there and leave a comment at the blog too, even and especially if you disagree!), but I'm curious what people on Role Play Gateway think.

For those who are unaware, here are some of the facts:

--> In 1997, some Manhattan Muslims began plans for Cordoba House, an Islamic cultural and prayer center.
--> In 2001, Al Qaeda terrorists destroyed the World Trade Center, and damaged the Burlington Coat Factory.
--> In 2010, the zoning board voted not to grant landmark status to the building, allowing the backers of the Cordoba Initiative to continue work.
--> In 2010, from May - August, American political commentators, politicians, and prominent community leaders have dragged "Mosque Proposed for Ground Zero" through the news and the blogs, turning it into a war of words... Awesome. (note sarcasm)

Feel free to post civil comments here. Discussion should be respectful. No name-calling, flaming, or deliberate ad hominem attacks.

Dashmiel · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Dashmiel** on Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:16 pm

Yes. Pure and simple. To deny them so would simply go against the very values we claim to embrace as Americans. I find it utterly sad and pathetic the way the Media has distorted the issue and how it has been used by some parties to incite a controversy that simply should not be. So much so that the first time this so called controversy reached my ears I was led to believe that it was an actual Mosque being erected ON ground zero, something that caused a knee-jerk no reaction from me, not because of it being a Mosque, that is irrelevant, but of where. Then of course, I took the time to learn more about it, and it became evident that a great deal was being made out of nothing.

NorthernSoul · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **NorthernSoul** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:23 am

Dashmiel wrote:Yes. Pure and simple. To deny them so would simply go against the very values we claim to embrace as Americans. I find it utterly sad and pathetic the way the Media has distorted the issue and how it has been used by some parties to incite a controversy that simply should not be. So much so that the first time this so called controversy reached my ears I was led to believe that it was an actual Mosque being erected ON ground zero, something that caused a knee-jerk no reaction from me, not because of it being a Mosque, that is irrelevant, but of where. Then of course, I took the time to learn more about it, and it became evident that a great deal was being made out of nothing.

Exactly. It all boils down a) Freedom of religion and b) the fact that Islam =/= Terrorism.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:59 am

The WTC was destroyed by muslim extremists and then they want to build a mosque there? By the gods no! That would be a symbol of a muslim crusade throughout the US. For me it sounds like: They destroy the WTC then build a mosque there to claim that they will gradually take over the US. With "they" I mean the Islamic fundies. Germany, where I live, is already bad enough with building mosques in every free lot. We have 8.5 million muslims and a total population of 82 million. We have about 2600 mosques standing here and 22000 churches. Out of the 2600 mosques, only two of them stand in my federal state. Here muslims dont respect our traditions: They dont know German, their women wear burkas and niqabs (dont have a problem with hijab, but burkas have no place in Europe), they are aggressive towards the Germans and many of the Turkish muslims want the Germans to die or GTFO of their own country. The Turks are the worst.

Ylanne · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Ylanne** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:05 pm

To Aniihya: The location of the Islamic Center (which includes a mosque, but is not *just* a mosque) is not ON the same location as the World Trade Center. It is two blocks away, and you cannot even see the site of the WTC from the proposed location. Also, it is not "Muslim extremists" who want to build the Islamic Center; these people are American Muslims, and definitely not 'extremists'.

PanzerJedi · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **PanzerJedi** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:31 pm

As is typical of the media, they have completely distorted the facts. If it will be two blocks from Ground Zero itself, I'm perefectly fine with that. If it was on Ground Zero, that is where I would have a problem. Not because of it would be a Muslim Center, but becuase it would be a religous center in general. My church or any other religions wouldn't be allowed to build any sort of meeting house or religous complex there, so I don't think any religion should. That was my biggest argument against it. Knowing now that it will be two blocks away, I really don't have much of a problem with it. I think Muslim's are good people (Except the extermist nuts of course), so if they can a center there I say go for it.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:58 pm

I just saw the show with Fareed on CNN and they said that two blocks away, they are going to change a old coat factory into a Sufi mosque. Okay. That I am okay with. Sufis are one of the most liberal and untypical muslims around. It would be the same if it were Ahmadiyya or Alevis.

Ylanne · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Ylanne** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:23 pm

Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, the imam who is leading the initiative for the Islamic Center, is a Sufi. And the building they want to use, which is two blocks away from the WTC, used to be the Burlington Coat Factory. ^^

Infinity · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Infinity** on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:55 pm

Here is the true fact of the matter. The fact that over seventy percent of America opposed the speech of representing a citizens rights based on the constitution and common sense itself is undeniably asinine. Everything that is Islam is not directly connected and related to the events of 9/11, and the fact that people keep connecting everyone who even touches the religion to those events just shows how misinformed that they are. Of course that is a fact, though my reason for them being able to build such is my opinion as a whole.

They have stripper bars, adultery stores, and all sorts of insulting unrefined stores that are directly not even blocks away from the place itself. But a Islamic center of peaceful people that don't intend to do any harm are immediately ganked, and furthermore when they're approved by Obama and given the right to do so everyone jumps him for his decision to allow them to do what he stated by the rights of the constitution as forged by America itself? That's ridiculous. I've never heard anything so crazy.

My honest opinion is this, and though this be slightly off-topic, I really do believe that this could help America. Limit the term of the Senate, just as they do everyone else. I mean, they have a term of limitation for Representatives if I'm not mistaken, the President, and just about everything else BUT the Senate. The Senate is composed of a large majority of old men that see things as they saw them in the past, not as they should be seeing them now. Just as there are old knowledgeable people that aren't capable of working a computer, there are old and knowledgeable people that aren't seeing things as they should for the America of today.

EDIT: I should mention a connected reason for the final paragraph. When discussing this with other peers, this was a point that arose and I found it very true. Not only that, but people mentioning that Obama is the worse president is obviously false in every sense of the word. Perhaps if he had proper people backing him throughout everything he is doing and going through, things wouldn't fall so harshly upon him.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:31 am

Infinity: Adultery stores? You mean porn shops and erotic stores. If the US was as liberal as Germany, you would have legal prostitution and an erotic megastore in every larger town. Erotic megastores and porn shops strengthens the sexual acts of the people which equals a higher chance of fertility. But, I have no respect for prostitutes. A woman shouldnt sell (I would rather say "rent") her body for money. An erotic actor is something a bit different. For me it wouldnt be prostitution anymore but "acting" sexual acts for a wide group of sexually unsatisfied people on video.

(Dont mark this as porn, since I am talking about it in a debative political and ethical way.)

NorthernSoul · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **NorthernSoul** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:03 am

Aniihya wrote: If the US was as liberal as Germany...

And yet:

Aniihya wrote:..burkas have no place in Europe... [Muslims] are aggressive towards the Germans and many of the Turkish muslims want the Germans to die or GTFO of their own country. The Turks are the worst.

Anyway, as a Briton (and therefore a European, though I don't get why you are assuming such a disparate collection of countries have one 'European' opinion when clearly views vary hugely between country to country), I believe that people should be allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. But this really isn't relevant to the original point of debate. You are equating Islam with terrorism and that is basically tantamount to discrimination. Do you equate Christianity to terrorism or violence due to paramilitary activities in Northern Island, the Ku Klux Klan in the U.S or the Bosnian genocide in the Yugoslav war? No, probably not. In the same way, we should separate the violent beliefs of fundamentalists that the huge majority of Muslims find abhorrent from those of moderate Muslims and treat an application to build a religious centre near the site the same as if the application was from any other religious group.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:18 am

You missed my point. I wasnt equating Islam with terrorism. If you read further, then you will see that I widely accept Sufis, Alevis and Ahmadiyya. I also accept people wearing hijab. But if you go to a new country then you have to accept and respect their way of life. Do you think a woman could go to Saudi Arabia and walk around without a Burka? No. Not wearing a burka in Saudi Arabia can automatically put a woman in jail for six months with 50 lashes. We dont want to be that bad. But I want to say that Germany should follow France and ban the burka, because it is discriminitory and not social in the western world. And by Quran it is not every written down. The Quran doesnt say a woman should hide their full face. It only says hair. The burka was introduced by the sexist Ottoman empire 400 years ago. It is partially that my belief promotes the equality of men and women. I am no Christian nor a Jew nor a Muslim. I am a pagan of a pre-Islamic faith. You Brits are worse than the Germans when it comes to accepting everything. The government barely did anything when a Sharia court was opened in Manchester! The government should protect the people but right now Britain is either on its way to becoming an Islamic Republic or anarchy.

NorthernSoul · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **NorthernSoul** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:42 am

Aniihya wrote:We dont want to be that bad. But I want to say that Germany should follow France and ban the burka, because it is discriminitory and not social in the western world.

By banning the burka you are discriminating.

And by Quran it is not every written down. The Quran doesnt say a woman should hide their full face. It only says hair. The burka was introduced by the sexist Ottoman empire 400 years ago.

I'm aware of what it says in the Qu'ran about covering the face/hair and I'm aware of the history of the burka- my best friend of seventeen years is Muslim (and incidentally does not cover her head at all when she's in this country). I think that every effort should be made to empower women in Islam. But the fact the remains that some women wear it willingly as a sign of their faith.

The government should protect the people but right now Britain is either on its way to becoming an Islamic Republic or anarchy.

Lol! Have you ever been to the UK? That's complete bollocks. You sound like a columnist from the Daily Mail.
Seriously though, if you want to discuss this further please PM me. This isn't really on topic and we should probably stop cluttering up this thread.

Aniihya · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Aniihya** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:05 am

If you believe that what I am saying about the UK isnt true. I have been there to visit a Kurdish friend and I have seen people being punished by Sharia law in the UK and I think it isnt right. People who think so optimistic like you are just naive. You have the same percentage of Muslims in your country as in my country. My country strictly forbids unconstitutional act especially the enactment of Sharia in Germany and it is punished with life (=20 years). It isnt discrimitory to ban the burka in Germany since it is common sense. You cant walk around disrespecting your host country like wearing the burka in Germany or not wearing the burka in Saudi Arabia. The muslims here do not want the our liberal concepts and beat old people up on a daily basis. If they dont want our friendship then we cant grant them what they want. They dont want to assimilate here in Germany. They dont want to learn German and they dont want to obey our laws. This is mainly targeted towards the muslim Turks (exception of Alevis). Kurds and Syrians know German and respect the society compared to Turks. They dont even wear burkas because it isnt their kind of culture. There are some Kurdish women who wear hijabs but that is acceptable. There are also a few intelligent and respectful Turks here. I have two Turkish friends. They speak fluent German and dont live a dogmatic life (one turned atheist because his family put too much religious pressure on him and he was sick of it.)

WingBlade · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **WingBlade** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:27 pm

My opinion might be jaded but here it goes. :D

First, I think most of the clothing discussion is kind of counter productive and should be removed. Sorry guys!

Second, while I don't find the mosque in and of itself a front to my personal sense of morals in general, I do find it a massive media eyesore. While Americans have forgotten, for the most part, the feelings of that day they haven't forgot the prejudicial hate that came along with that attack.

Things are pretty screwed up in our country as it stands and personally I feel that this mosque will instigate American attacks on innocent Islamists (Whatever you call em'.) Things may not be an affront to the actual instance but they will inspire Americans to retaliate all the same. Most Americans feel it is an issue of constitutional right but it isn't. It is an issue of nation appearance and personal safety. If they build that mosque, mark these words, you will see a response from Americans that will make Islamic followers view us the way we viewed them during the terrorist attacks. I personally destest violence when I'm not involved directly and I'm not in this case. (Who can't say they don't enjoy a good fight? :D) This is the powderkeg that will light another prejudiced manhunt and this time we'll be the ones getting slapped around for the actions of a few outraged Americans.

All that said, go ahead and build it. The idiocy that will follow isn't going to be blood on my hands, but will I probably suffer for it as an American. Just like most of the middle east did for 9/11. Pretty damn sure of it, but who knows for certain? The first idiot that firebombs the damn thing will seal America's fate.

So personally, I think we SHOULDN'T build it. Not because I'm prejudice, but because I don't enjoy Americans being hunted down for stupidity.

WingBlade
"The Michael"

Absenthia · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Absenthia** on Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:10 pm

I say no. They're letting them build when they won't allow them to rebuild Saint Nicolas.
I think we're probably being a little TOO tolerant and maybe them building this "cultural" center near Ground Zero is yet another way to trying to take us to the proverbial cleaners.

Normally I'm pretty accepting of other religions and cultures, but something about the Islamists just rubs me the wrong way. Must be that it isn't a very peaceful religion and one that encourages things like Honor Killings and women being next to second class in some countries.

Maestro · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Maestro** on Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:33 am

As far as I’ve been able to tell, this has been a very controversial topic, especially in New York City. Unfortunately, I don’t have a real opinion because I see both sides of the argument. The September 11th attacks were executed by Islamic extremist, and a lot of people do feel that building a mosque two blocks from ground zero would be an insult to Americans. I do understand the emotional toll these attacks had on citizens all over the country. Over 2,700 people died in these attacks and those who were responsible would be living directly next door. However, just because one particular group of people or in this case a religion do something, doesn't mean you should damn them all.

We have spent countless billions giving back to Iraq and the Middle East and I think it’s about time they start repaying us. In truth, I find it will better our economy if anything. A hundred years ago, African Americans would have never thought we would be living in a society today where we have a black president. Slavery was horrible, but just because SOME people had slaves then, doesn’t mean a lot of resentment is held today towards Caucasians (as a whole) for example. This is roughly the same concept. You can’t damn a whole race for the actions of a few individuals. Simply, get over it. Dwelling in the past will get us nowhere as a nation.

~ Maestro ~

Tigeress · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Tigeress** on Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:36 am

I am against the construction, mainly because it creates turmoil when Im sure one could find anouther, less controversial location for it. You would be avoiding unnecessary violence, verbal or otherwise, and choosing the more peaceful road. Then there would be no problems with it, and everyone would be happier. Instead, both sides are squabbling like children. If they moved their location, they would still have a religious facility AND would not have to deal with the political climate around Ground Zero. You would be demonstrating reason, and as such, show that you are willing to cooperate, even if the people challenging you are not. Essentially, proving that you are far more peaceful than whoever opposes believes you to be. This does nothing to change the way people view you, especially in a time of war.

However, I do feel that they have the right to build anywhere they like in the United States, simply because our laws allow it, and even our original morality was inclined to it. I believe we say, "America, land of the free" we do not say, "America, land free of Islam". Why do we let what a few people did, affect our judgment of what many will do?

I guess I stand conflicted, as I really want to say, "Go for it!" but find myself unable to agree with all the political climate created from it. I even realize that conflict is sometimes necessary to make a change in things. So perhaps my way of thinking is wrong. I just hope for the best.

Butterfly Effect · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Butterfly Effect** on Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:00 am

No plain and simple no. Islam has been a regilon of war from it's start. It's book even tell it's followers to kill. Islam is a sickness sprending all over the world taking it over bit by bit this is just one more push to make this Islam earth.

Kagerou · **Tips:** 0.00 INK by **Kagerou** on Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:18 am

-reads parts of the posts above-

Eh, let 'em. :D I don't have a reason at all, it's just people trying to follow their faith. It's not a sickness. Gosh. >.< -is tired, because she hasn't slept yet-

So yeah. I don't really have a reason behind my opinion. I've learned just to accept people for who they are, and just let them believe what they want. It is their life, just like yours and mine.

Islamic Center Near Ground Zero: Yes or No?

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